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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755 |
The 30-06 works great. Especially if you are after something big like elk,moose,or big bears or boars. It will kill all of the above without outrageous recoil.
For deer,I want something that kicks less and/or shoots flatter at normal hunting ranges of 500 yards or less.
Last few years I've been using a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 120 grain monolithic bullet at 3000 fps. It shoots flatter and/or kicks less than a 30-06.
This year I'm going to try a 7mm-08 with a 120 grain monolithic bullet. Also going try a 243 with the 90 grain accubond. May even take my CZ in 6.5 Grendel. It shoots about as flat as a 30-06 and has a lot less recoil.
Where are you hunting that 500 yards is normal deer hunting range?
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,113
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,113 |
[quote=JoeBob]
We copied the Mauser rifle and it’s cartridge so closely that we lost a court case and were ordered to pay royalties to the Mauser company. Same rim, same case head diameter, same body taper, and same neck angle. We weren’t into metrics, so it was in .30 caliber instead of 7 or 8 mm. We lengthened it a bit, probably to try to get a few differences so we could try to avoid some of those royalties instead of for any performance gain. Or, maybe it took a little more length to get 7.92x57 velocities with a slightly smaller in diameter bullet of nearly equivalent weight. In any case, the performance was an almost identical match for the 7.92x57 in a cartridge that was obviously developed from it. When the Germans changed to a 153 grain spitzer in 1903 increasing the velocity of their cartridge to about 2,700 feet per second, we followed suit a few years later and the 30-06 was born with almost identical numbers once again. ----------------------------------------- BINGO ! Springfield 1903 VERSUS Mauser *** NOT 8X57 vs 30-06. Uh Huh. Thank You Elks Jerry You're welcome Jerry.  I think the .30/06 "parent" case is the 7x57 kinda sorta. After the Spanish-American war the US government took the 7x57 case and lengthen it and opened it up to .30 caliber. I.e. the U.S government wildcatted the 7x57 case to something else. Just my thoughts on the subject.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,809
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,809 |
They could have quit with the original short mag.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
They could have quit with the original short mag. The .284 Win ? GRIN Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,809
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,809 |
Nope:  .300Savage on the left, .308Win on the right....Not much that can't be done on soft skinned game with the .300Savage and a 130grain Barnes TTSX started out pushing 3000. ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50516586427_6a513113db_c.jpg)
Last edited by battue; 10/22/20.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,498
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,498 |
"Greater" is a word that should be defined. If by "greater" you mean a round that covers the most bases and fulfills the largest number of needs for hunting in the whole world, I agree 100%. But greater (greatest) can also mean flattest shooting to some shooters. It can mean most powerful to some shooters. It can mean most accurate to some shooters. It can mean most efficient in terms of powder burned to power produced to some shooters. It can mean best for use in an auto-loader or lever action to some shooters. It can mean least expensive to some shooters, and many other definitions of the word. the 30-06 is none of these things ----------------------------other then being the best for the most usage, over the most areas, and the most types of game to be killed. But that's all. 
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,546
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,546 |
What I don’t get is the .308. Why? Especially nowadays when so many rifles have one action length. If a .308 is the exact same length and weight of a 30-06, why not just get the 30-06? A .308 Tikka or Ruger American Rifle seems like the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard, unless you are going to chop the barrel to about 18 or 20 inches. While the action length would ideally match the cartridge, I don't think it's that big a deal. The 'why' would be that some prefer the .308 Win to the .30-06. Less powder, less recoil and small compromise on the upper end of performance. Those factors are subjective just like the compromise on action length. The rifle can mitigate that to a degree as well. A Tikka T3 lite in either 308 or '06 is already light at 6.4 lbs in standard length. A Ruger Hawkeye on the other hand, is heavier from the get-go, but it's available in a short action.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,825
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,825 |
If a .308 is the exact same length and weight of a 30-06, why not just get the 30-06? A .308 Tikka or Ruger American Rifle seems like the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard, unless you are going to chop the barrel to about 18 or 20 inches. RAR's for 308, 243, etc. are a shorter action than '06s and 270s' etc.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
280 is where it's at  Marc, Sorry man, I hadn't heard about your Brain injury.  HOW did you bang you head ?  Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
......... the 30-06 is none of these things ----------------------------other then being the best for the most usage, over the most areas, and the most types of game to be killed. But that's all. New sig line ? Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,777 |
O6 is okay, but there are lots better rounds!!!
Molon Labe
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Good for nothing, used for everything.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
FIRST WCH, I’ll never call you Sam E again !! He AINT what he acts !!! Lost all respect for him. O6 is okay, but there are lots better rounds!!! Now, where does that leave the 308 ? . . . Out of my book ! Jerry . . .
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,401
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,401 |
gnoahh
Yes I understand what you are saying AND
maybe they didnt want to reveal what they were doing ? ?
BUT I’ve really looked a lot of places and ‘so far’ I have not found 1 source
that said or showed the 8x57 case’s relativity to the 06.
30-40 K, > 30-03 > 30-06 is substituted.
I really am looking for an authoritative source to verify what some folks
are saying.
Without a reliable source the claim is
Poppycock...to me.
Thanks for your ideas.
Jerry We copied the Mauser rifle and it’s cartridge so closely that we lost a court case and were ordered to pay royalties to the Mauser company. Same rim, same case head diameter, same body taper, and same neck angle. We weren’t into metrics, so it was in .30 caliber instead of 7 or 8 mm. We lengthened it a bit, probably to try to get a few differences so we could try to avoid some of those royalties instead of for any performance gain. Or, maybe it took a little more length to get 7.92x57 velocities with a slightly smaller in diameter bullet of nearly equivalent weight. In any case, the performance was an almost identical match for the 7.92x57 in a cartridge that was obviously developed from it. When the Germans changed to a 153 grain spitzer in 1903 increasing the velocity of their cartridge to about 2,700 feet per second, we followed suit a few years later and the 30-06 was born with almost identical numbers once again. Well the case head diameters are not the same exactly, the 30-06 has a .473 diameter and the 8x57 JS has a .470 diameter, a different shoulder angle and of course the rest.
Dog I rescued in January ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/yYDjsxrQ/IMG-0124.jpg)
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,401
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,401 |
Well the Springfield bolt has the cocking piece of the Krag and the dual bolt lugs like the various Mausers. The firing pin is different than the Mauser's being two piece instead of one piece. I would say the US should have gotten a better group of lawyers to make their case.
Dog I rescued in January
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,924
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,924 |
FIRST WCH, I’ll never call you Sam E again !! He AINT what he acts !!! Lost all respect for him. O6 is okay, but there are lots better rounds!!! Now, where does that leave the 308 ? . . . Out of my book ! Jerry . . . If I was starting out today as a new hunter the 308 would be on my short list. The 30-06 wouldn't make the cut. And I own both and mostly hunt with the 30-06
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
If I were starting from absolute zero, I’d have a Tikka 6.5CM, Sportsmatch, SWFA 3X9 and a pallet of ammo. Done.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
.
If I was starting out today as a new hunter the 308 would be on my short list. The 30-06 wouldn't make the cut. And I own both and mostly hunt with the 30-06
It’s. a GOOD thing we ALL don’t want the same thing. It’s hard snuff to find DIFF ammo & components as it is. One 308 was enuff for me. Yes I loaded it too. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,892
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,892 |
Just the 308 is all that’s needed.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
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the 30-06 is none of these things ----------------------------other then being the best < for the most usage> , over the most areas, and the most types of game to be killed. But that's all. Steve, I believe there is real 'merit' in your assessment. 16, I think you and szihn 'complement' each other's assessments, With my 'edit' Good BEST for nothing, used for everything. Fixt for you. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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