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Originally Posted by himmelrr
I have thought about a 25-308 for quite some time.


... Or how about a 7mm-08 and use just about any bullets. No need for something specialized for deer. It doesn't need a trick bullet. You don't need to try for a high shoulder shot. Standard bullets work perfectly without the need to "drive them hard" or "drop down a weight or two". My $0.02

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It’s a Whitetail for pete’s seek, it doesn’t take a huge bullet to kill a dinky dog deer. 85 grains is enough, sounds like the bullet had a flaw.

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Originally Posted by Teeder
Originally Posted by himmelrr
I have thought about a 25-308 for quite some time.


... Or how about a 7mm-08 and use just about any bullets. No need for something specialized for deer. It doesn't need a trick bullet. You don't need to try for a high shoulder shot. Standard bullets work perfectly without the need to "drive them hard" or "drop down a weight or two". My $0.02


I already have one of those and a 338Fed if I am in a fat bullet mood. Teeder, how have you been?

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Doing well. How have you been?
Sounds like your set with those two. 👍

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Originally Posted by himmelrr
Originally Posted by KRAKMT


Were the holes in the heart- bone rather than copper?
I would expect 15 yards and 3250 might pass through but that said creating a bullet that will hold together at 15 yards but reliably open at 500 is an engineering challenge.



There were a couple of pieces of bone in the heart but the holes I assumed were copper but may have been bone. Engineering "challenge" is an understatement. I have been amazed at Barnes ability to penetrate over the years. I remember one where I shot a deer as it was wheeling around to run away. I jumped him from his bed on a steep hill above me and got off a quick snap shot. The 85gr TSX went in behind the shoulder out through the off side shoulder, into its neck, through the spine and still exited!


I think with the example of one, it is hard to extrapolate what happened. If the bullet came apart, there is no other bullet that is tougher. The ttsx and everything else would have come apart too.
If the bullet penciled but yet sent shrapnel into the heart then maybe.

But I would not change religions from the single example. The religions of more power, more powder, more bullet or more energy dump all have their preachers.

My brother shot an elk last week with my rifle.
He assumed hold low low...information failure, apparently my fault, so I am told
He shot just above her brisket(300 wsm 175lrx) the bone fragments took out the heart bullet passed through. It could have been the bullet shedding petals, I guess I don’t know for sure.



I shot a shoulder shot on a whitetail this week and let’s say I lost most of that shoulder meat. But no runny.

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Bullets do strange things sometimes. You my never see a Barnes bullet act like that again in a hundred deer or a hundred years.

Thanks for sharing your story.


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Originally Posted by Hammerdown
Bullets do strange things sometimes. You my never see a Barnes bullet act like that again in a hundred deer or a hundred years.

Thanks for sharing your story.

I would agree. I have used the 85 grain TSX and have always been pleased with the results. Maybe a bad batch you got.

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Originally Posted by CanadianLefty
Originally Posted by jorgeI
TSXs in the smaller calibers do have a tendency to pencil through. The fix is to switch over to the TTSX. Frankly, save for the big bores I don't know why Barnes still makes the TSX and not the TTSX exclusively.


Or the LRX. Mistake #1 is using a .243 85 gr bullet on deer. I have seen these take out wild pigs in California, but I have also seen them hit a pig and end up with a 4 hour tracking job itno the night.

You need the right balance of diameter and weight, even with copper bullets. For medium-sized deer, My personal min. would be a .257 with a 100 gr. TTSX. This bullet would more reliably expand and have more momentum to push for an exit. I skip over this and shoot a .277 (270 Win.) with 130 gr bullets and it's almost too much which is exactly what you need on 125-175lbs deer. Even then, I find myself just using my 300 win mag with 190 gr. LRX bullets for pretty much everything.


If you don't think an 85gr out of a 243 is enough for deer, your knowledge of ballistics is a clueless as your politics...


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This is kind of amusing to me. Not the undetermined bullet failure but, if this had been a Sierra or Speer a mob would have formed with new rope wanting to lynch the offender. Since it's Barnes the consensus is that it's an anomaly and will not happen again. laugh wink


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Originally Posted by Hammerdown
Bullets do strange things sometimes. You my never see a Barnes bullet act like that again in a hundred deer or a hundred years.

Thanks for sharing your story.

This. I am not a Barnes fan, but once in a while bullets do strange things, regardless the make. Keep shooting them, you likely won't have that problem again.

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Originally Posted by Joe
This is kind of amusing to me. Not the undetermined bullet failure but, if this had been a Sierra or Speer a mob would have formed with new rope wanting to lynch the offender. Since it's Barnes the consensus is that it's an anomaly and will not happen again. laugh wink

I'd think it wasn't a representative sample of any of the bullets I hunt with if I saw it happen.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by CanadianLefty
Originally Posted by jorgeI
TSXs in the smaller calibers do have a tendency to pencil through. The fix is to switch over to the TTSX. Frankly, save for the big bores I don't know why Barnes still makes the TSX and not the TTSX exclusively.


Or the LRX. Mistake #1 is using a .243 85 gr bullet on deer. I have seen these take out wild pigs in California, but I have also seen them hit a pig and end up with a 4 hour tracking job itno the night.

You need the right balance of diameter and weight, even with copper bullets. For medium-sized deer, My personal min. would be a .257 with a 100 gr. TTSX. This bullet would more reliably expand and have more momentum to push for an exit. I skip over this and shoot a .277 (270 Win.) with 130 gr bullets and it's almost too much which is exactly what you need on 125-175lbs deer. Even then, I find myself just using my 300 win mag with 190 gr. LRX bullets for pretty much everything.


If you don't think an 85gr out of a 243 is enough for deer, your knowledge of ballistics is a clueless as your politics...


CL is as dumbass of the highest order. It's not even worth the time reading his useless and ignorant replies.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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I forgive you JGRaider and JorgeI, you must just be on edge given the current political climate. Any of our differences pale in comparison to what we share in common and don't belong on this section of the forum nor on the OP's thread.

Jorge, we share a buddy in common, just ask John Sharp. It was great to see him again on his book tour stateside.

When it comes to firearms and ballistics, I stand by what I shared and unless you misinterpreted what I shared, is entirely defensible.

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Originally Posted by himmelrr


I know some of you will say that it is not a failure since it killed the deer quickly and I found it.


If that bullet really did break apart then it did indeed "fail", regardless of whether it killed the deer or not. Barnes advertises deep penetration and 100% weight retention for their TSX at near unlimited velocity, or something like that which it sounds like didn't happen in this case.

I am not a barnes fan. I've had a few act bizarre, though I haven't had one come apart like that.



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Where did the bullet go? Couldn't just have vaporized. The copper shank would be intact no matter what happened to the petals. 4000 fps would not hurt the bullet shank.

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Originally Posted by CanadianLefty
I forgive you JGRaider and JorgeI, you must just be on edge given the current political climate. Any of our differences pale in comparison to what we share in common and don't belong on this section of the forum nor on the OP's thread.

Jorge, we share a buddy in common, just ask John Sharp. It was great to see him again on his book tour stateside.

When it comes to firearms and ballistics, I stand by what I shared and unless you misinterpreted what I shared, is entirely defensible.


go and tell John you were pulling for Biden.....He'll squeeze your little neck until your head pops like a pimple..


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Not trying t be a smartazz or change the subject but if you were shooting an undisturbed deer at 15 yards why in the great wide world of sports did you not shoot it in the neck? DRT every time.


I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
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Was trying to think of the few times I used smallish caliber Barnes bullets while hunting and recalled a similar scenario.

2007, mine was a 100 grain TSX at 3340 fps from my 25-06, on a mule deer at about 20 - 25 yards. That bullet tore the heck out of the buck's heart and dropped him instantly.

I noted that the heart looked like a large book that had been opened up with multiple "pages" of heart tissue - I'd never seen one damaged like that before.

No bullet was recovered of course, it was a pass-through.

I don't normally use Barnes, but that one sure worked well at very high impact velocity.

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I have not had any issues but am switching to the TTSX as I run out of the TSX's. The original X bullet the hollow point was the same depth for all bullet weights so the lightest had less shank to them. It is also possible the metal was not pure copper. But I think it is just a case of S**t happens.

I have had a Corelock deflected by a deer rib when shot at a sharp angle, but not a Barnes.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
TSXs in the smaller calibers do have a tendency to pencil through. The fix is to switch over to the TTSX. Frankly, save for the big bores I don't know why Barnes still makes the TSX and not the TTSX exclusively.


I asked JB this very question recently. Here is his response!

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...on-for-jb-re-barnes-bullets#Post15271782

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