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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 10,691
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 10,691 |
Progressives are the most open minded, tolerant, and inclusive people on the planet, as long as you agree with everything they say, and do exactly as you're told.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,096 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,096 Likes: 5 |
100 yards, PMC M855 equivalent. 100 yards, 7.62x39 Golden Tiger 124gr FMJBT 100 yards, M855. 308 Win handload. 100 yards and 1120 yards.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,187 |
M.O.P.P....... Minute of paper plate, for 7.62x39 stuff. 12 ga. "00" Buck ? I don't know but I may play with some this spring as I have almost zero experience with it. You may need to play with that months before Spring gets here.
prplbkrr = Purple Biker
Can't score goals if all you do is pass.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 959
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 959 |
Word of advice for all you wanna be revolutionaries aim for the belt line.., Yes sir, especially playing with the 00 buck. Aim for the belt buckle KC
You can easily vote your way in to Socialism; but you'll have to shoot your way out.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,034 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,034 Likes: 5 |
I pretty much have a goal of 1 moa for all long guns (even my 45-70)......somewhat less for handguns! Good to go on most! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,256 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,256 Likes: 13 |
lol I can shoot minute of paper plate at 100 yards with my 3 inch ruger sps 101.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,519 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,519 Likes: 2 |
Most combat in open fields takes place at 300 meters and under and 75% of that at 150 and under. Most urban combat takes place at 100 and less, and a lot taking place at feet not yards. So accuracy is more about the shooter then the tool. Shooting someone that's trying to do you and your buddies harm, while you heart rate is like a hummingbird, and while your targets are moving and hiding as well as they can, is not near as easy as most (who have not done it) think it is.
Having been on the wrong end of AKs many times, I am still convinced that for the average town or city dweller, one of the best (if not THE best) weapons you can have in an AK47. They are not usually super accurate, but they are reliable and easy to use. With the advent of scope mounts that actually work on AKS I am of the opinion that a militia member or unit, armed with AKs that are set up with low powered scopes might just be the very best type of weapon that could be asked for by a soldier.
In reality a 3 MOA weapon and ammo with which you can use to hit a 5 MOA target in 1-2 seconds is way better then a 1/4 MOA weapon you can hit a 1/4" target with in 10 seconds.
You will almost never have 10 seconds to make a shot in a fight. Shoot as fast as you can make hits, BUT NO FASTER! Thinking you can hit a "1/2" target" is not realistic because if your target is 1/2" part of a man, you will not know for sure who the man is--------- and if he should be shot or not.
I have real experience in both areas. (USMC and later working for DOD as a trainer for troops, favored by our government) Precision shooting does have it's place, but in real fights you'll find that even as a sniper you fire most shots in combat at under 500 and a lot at 350 or there-abouts, but what you shoot at is often going to be a "piece of the enemy" shot through a hole in a wall, a gap in the brush or trees or between rocks. In fights that are comprised of dozens of bad guys VS dozens of good guys, about 99% of the shots are going to be close, and pretty fast. If the SHTF scenario is to come to be, going after the enemy and taking the war to them is how you will win. NEVER in a defensive mindset. if 19,000 japs can't hold Iwo Jima with 4 years to get ready, you are NOT going to hold you position either. Patton told the world and he was right. "Fortified positions are monuments to the stupidity of man". If [bleep], you need to go hunting, not waiting for the enemy to dictate the rules of the contest. Go AFTER THEM and let them worry about defending their homes.
Practical and useful accuracy for war is about fire and maneuver. You need to have the initiative. In civilian shooting think flushing birds not sniping prairie dogs.
So "accuracy" is BY FAR more about the man than it is the weapon or ammo.
If you have a 1/2 MOA weapon and ammo that is NEVER a bad thing, but the usefulness of 1/4 MOA over 1.5 MOA will not be seen in 1 shot out of 1000 in a real war. More accuracy is never a disadvantage, but in most cases anything better then 2MOA will never be noticed in a real war. It may be for taking out a few the communist leaders, but only for about the first 2 days of the war.
After that all of the leaders are going to be in hiding and the only want to get them is to go after them and kill all those loyal to them 1st. Standard rifles, shotguns and fire bombs are going to be doing the bulk of the damage to the enemy. Like about 99.999% of it.
Last edited by szihn; 12/24/20.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,219 Likes: 25
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,219 Likes: 25 |
Wouldn’t argue your thoughts about combat ops, but rebellion/civil war won’t fit that mould out of the starting gate. Maybe later when things get organized if it lasts that long.
Another point has to do with who picks a fight with who and where. Part of Floriduh I call home has either light urban or rural development. Most of the rest is dense woods and a fella would be pressed to find a shot much over 50 yards. Kinda like my “yard”. Come and screw with me and mine, you will not hear or see the old fart that puts you down. Might even be surprised by how it happens.
Free tip to all you scattergun disciples: You can do better than 00 buck and a full choke. If you have the time and inclination open your choke a bit and try some #1 or smaller. It takes the guess work out of longer shots, like up to around 50 yds or so. And yes’ shoot ‘em in the belly button. Easy way to make monsters cry. Before they die.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,407 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,407 Likes: 2 |
A realist would match his tactics and weapons to his abilities. Fire and maneuver is a young mans game and is largely dependent on establishing a solid base of fire and is most effective when performed by a team. Shoot and scoot is the best option for a singleton or small unsupported team. As DD said, an intimacy w/ the terrain and picking the time and place of action is a basic necessity.
Try running 50 yards then shooting a 6" target off hand in<3 seconds after stopping and repeat ad nauseum.
I'm up, they see me, I'm down. There is a ton of good info available on current tactics in real combat in urban and rural terrain. Many folks would be best served by doing more PT.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,065 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,065 Likes: 1 |
Methinks there are very few on here ,other then those who have BTDT in an actual combat situation, that would be able to maintain any type of tactics or field accuracy when faced with being shot back at. Static range accuracy only goes so far when the dynamics of combat are in place!
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,274 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,274 Likes: 2 |
...............Bladeworks!
Trump Won!
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,355 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,355 Likes: 10 |
Word of advice for all you wanna be revolutionaries aim for the belt line.., Just below the vest?
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,742
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,742 |
Unless it's coming from one of those things you used to be in . Then it could be a lifesaver
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,887 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,887 Likes: 5 |
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,418
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,418 |
Mine shoot 1.5 MOA which is plenty good enough.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,715 Likes: 7
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,715 Likes: 7 |
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,414 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,414 Likes: 6 |
I was never in the service, but I have been in a BB gun fight.
I learned that standing up is when I get hit.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,450
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,450 |
Minute Of Azzhole. One shot, one or more dead.
Spray and pray is a profoundly poor tactic. Especially if you're alone without uncle sugar supplying ammo by the truck/plane/helo load.
Last edited by blindshooter; 12/25/20.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,949
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,949 |
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,355 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,355 Likes: 10 |
What your preferred bullet for SHTF rifle ammo? FMJ, or expanding soft point?
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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