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I had a knight disc rifle for 3 years, to me it was just a pain in the butt modern rifle.

Sold it, and 2 years later I had an old salt walk me through making a Lyman GPR... used real BP in it... MAN what fun.

Took a deer with it the first day of the season.. all good.

Spot

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Without a doubt...started with an MK85 in the late 80's then sold it a couple years later...used caplocks for a few years in different calibers, then 100% Flintlocks for all hunting for the past several years, including smoothbores...most enjoyable hunting and weekend shooting period of my life.

Sold off about half my centerfires and shotguns during the past few years as they had laid oiled in their cases for 10+ years and I finally came to the decision that I'd never use them again...for me, nothing else comes close to the satisfaction of taking deer, turkey, squirrels, crows, and doves the way the settlers did, using rifled and smoothbore Flintlocks.


"Flintlocks.......The Real Deal"
(Claims that 1:48" twists won't shoot PRBs accurately are old wives tales!!)
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I have a rossi .50 for the rain, but I LOOOVE my .54 cabelas' hawken!! Hard to find .54 stuff sometimes, so I figured a backup was in order. The hawken is a much better offhand rifle, and just feels good in your hands.

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My Omega in-line is a LOT funner than my old traditional muzzleloaders.

The fun part is that it goes bang even in wet conditions, and after a day or two of being carried in the rain.

This past fall, I encountered two elk hunters whose MLs had failed to fire in the rain, and they weren't having any fun at all!!


I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than living as a puppet or a slave....
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Yep!


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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I love the traditionals. With a little experience the flintys and the percussions are just fine in wet weather. Nothing against the inliners but they're dumb rifles. smile


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The traditional weapons didn't "fail" to fire. Not recognizing the distinction is what makes people follow the inline trail. If you want absolutes, you need to understand the rules of the game and put forth the effort. If you don't, your gun "fails" to fire. In reality, you failed to follow the rules.

Dan


"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
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Originally Posted by roundball

"...100% Flintlocks for all hunting for the past several years, including smoothbores...most enjoyable hunting and weekend shooting period of my life..."


As a general comment, not a direct response to any post, I thought it was worth mentioning the correct view about the reliability of sidelock muzzleloaders, and in particular, Flintlocks...which is that they're perfectly reliable year round under all weather conditions.

The failure is the hunter/shooter...not the Flintlock (or caplock)...to blame the Flintlock is like blaming a pencil for spelling errors.

We have to remember that Flintlocks obviously work year round under all weather conditions because the world used them for about 400 years...our own country for 200-300 years itself as it was discovered and settled using Flintlocks...put food on the table...fought wars...won our independence with them, etc.
(the caplock period was actually a very brief period of time from about 1830 to the Civil War, then cartridge rifles began appearing).

The problem which keeps perpetuating the erroneous myth about sidelock muzzleloaders being unreliable is that people try them without investing a little time studying/learning about them, then they have a bad experience because they don't have a clue about what they're doing, they quit, they blame it on the side lock, and keep repeating their tale over and over again for years after that.

As to reliability in all weather conditions, the old saying about "keep your powder dry" is real...and its very simple:

1) Keep the muzzle pointed down so water does not run back alongside the barrel into the pan and kill the priming charge;

2) Keep the lock area up under your coat next to your warm dry body until you're ready to take a shot;

3) Refresh the prime every hour so that even high humidity/foggy conditions don't have a chance to affect it;

Unfortunately, most people now in our modern society have an 'instant gratification' mindset and won't put out even the little bit of effort it takes to read a couple of articles and study/learn how to use a traditional sidelock muzzleloader...they want something right off the shelf in Walmart that is modern just like their Remington 700, so they can go hunting that afternoon.

We've all seen the result...the feeding frenzy for modern high performance scoped inlines with centerfire ballistics, now some with smokelss powder, now some with electronic ignition, etc...most people don't have any interest in understanding real muzzleloading as it existed in the early American traditional muzzleloading era...most if not all, just want to take advantage of the traditional ML seasons that were already established to get another chance at a deer, then the inlines are put back in the closet for another year.

The good news is that occasionally a small percentage get their interest piqued about real muzzleloading & black powder, and begin going backwards in technology...learn what it's all about...start filling their tags with them every year, etc.


"Flintlocks.......The Real Deal"
(Claims that 1:48" twists won't shoot PRBs accurately are old wives tales!!)
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Yeah, what RB said!

...and mebbe one could use a mule's ear and/or grease around the seam of the frizzen...it worked in the past.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Originally Posted by roundball
Originally Posted by roundball

"...100% Flintlocks for all hunting for the past several years, including smoothbores...most enjoyable hunting and weekend shooting period of my life..."


As a general comment, not a direct response to any post, I thought it was worth mentioning the correct view about the reliability of sidelock muzzleloaders, and in particular, Flintlocks...which is that they're perfectly reliable year round under all weather conditions.

The failure is the hunter/shooter...not the Flintlock (or caplock)...to blame the Flintlock is like blaming a pencil for spelling errors.

We have to remember that Flintlocks obviously work year round under all weather conditions because the world used them for about 400 years...our own country for 200-300 years itself as it was discovered and settled using Flintlocks...put food on the table...fought wars...won our independence with them, etc.
(the caplock period was actually a very brief period of time from about 1830 to the Civil War, then cartridge rifles began appearing).

The problem which keeps perpetuating the erroneous myth about sidelock muzzleloaders being unreliable is that people try them without investing a little time studying/learning about them, then they have a bad experience because they don't have a clue about what they're doing, they quit, they blame it on the side lock, and keep repeating their tale over and over again for years after that.

As to reliability in all weather conditions, the old saying about "keep your powder dry" is real...and its very simple:

1) Keep the muzzle pointed down so water does not run back alongside the barrel into the pan and kill the priming charge;

2) Keep the lock area up under your coat next to your warm dry body until you're ready to take a shot;

3) Refresh the prime every hour so that even high humidity/foggy conditions don't have a chance to affect it;

Unfortunately, most people now in our modern society have an 'instant gratification' mindset and won't put out even the little bit of effort it takes to read a couple of articles and study/learn how to use a traditional sidelock muzzleloader...they want something right off the shelf in Walmart that is modern just like their Remington 700, so they can go hunting that afternoon.

We've all seen the result...the feeding frenzy for modern high performance scoped inlines with centerfire ballistics, now some with smokelss powder, now some with electronic ignition, etc...most people don't have any interest in understanding real muzzleloading as it existed in the early American traditional muzzleloading era...most if not all, just want to take advantage of the traditional ML seasons that were already established to get another chance at a deer, then the inlines are put back in the closet for another year.

The good news is that occasionally a small percentage get their interest piqued about real muzzleloading & black powder, and begin going backwards in technology...learn what it's all about...start filling their tags with them every year, etc.


Those is the best comments I have read about the traditional/inline muzzleloading controversary.

Inline shooters are rule bending wannabes... grin grin grin

Bill

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My interest was only to set the record straight regarding the tired old negative comments about traditional muzzleloaders being unreliable, and not kick sand on an inliner's decision to use the modern stuff. As long as current laws legalize the use of high tech high performance long range scoped inlines in traditional muzzleloading seasons, they're certainly entitled to use them.

To call them "muzzleloaders' however, in an attempt to associate them in the context of what is truly meant by the term "muzzleloaders", and to use them in the seasons pretending they are no different that a traditional muzzleloader is a complete falsehood. They are nothing more than long range modern rifles with centerfire-like performance that simply happen to load from the front.


"Flintlocks.......The Real Deal"
(Claims that 1:48" twists won't shoot PRBs accurately are old wives tales!!)
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Almost like Pope's muzzle loading cartridge guns huh? Probably not as accurate though.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Truth is I got the rossi for wet weather, but always take the hawken. So far, so good - 8 deer last year, all kinds of weather. I do take the rossi out from time to time, just to make sure it still works.

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I have a 50 cal poor boy with 43" of barrel. Percussion. It has never failed me yet! Shoots true too.
I won an inline in a raffle. It still sits in the box without ever being fired.

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Purchased my first muzzle loader in 1986. A T/C Hawkens 50 cal and it has a score of 13+ deer. I also own the Encore 50 and have had bang-flop deer with it also. My go to most of the time is the Hawkens. 370gr maxi ball with 90grs of powder. Longest shot was 130 yards open hard woods with open sights at a 5 pointer. Took both lungs out, buck ran about 60 yards and piled-up. Whats not to like. Front stuffers are a great tool. I hardly ever get to use my center fires. Muzzle loader season before rifle season. All done. Back too the bow. Ken

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I just put together my first flintlock longrifle.It is definitely more fun than my Knight is.Will I get rid of the Knight.No, but I'm dying to hunt with the flinter.The inline was just a way to hunt another gun season, but the flintlock leaves me looking vey forward to ML season.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...
...is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke

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I have taken game with my flintlock in all types of weather ranging from down pours to high wind . Even snow storms with flakes as big as 50 cent pieces . Snow so hard you couldn�t see 50 yards .
I even managed one time to take a nice 5X5 bull elk from our camp one time . The temp was near zero and we had decide not to go out .

What round ball said about the reliability is true .
If the weapon does not go off its because you did something wrong or didn�t do something .
It takes a good understanding of how things work which results in the added understanding of what you need to do to make things work or keep them working

While I don�t think modern muzzleloading shooters are stupid , I would have to agree that most simply are not willing to take the time needed to understand or become proficient in the different aspects that that is needed to keep the system reliable .

Now this isn�t to say I have never had misfires , I have and on some very nice bull elk too . However after I got over the anger it dawned on me that the fault was truly mine not the systems .
In every case I new before hand I needed to change the flint or checked the prime .
But I got lazy , thinking ahhhh she will spark a couple more times .

There in lies the problem fellas not the weapon .

I have heard fellas say ; ahhhh I wont use a traditional muzzleloader again , they simply are not safe . Once I had a bolster blow off or a niple come out � any number of things .
That all comes down to the same thing , operator error .
The nipple was cross threaded or worn , the bolter was never cleaned or needed to be maintained .

Traditional muzzleloaders are simply wonderful but it takes learning .

Im sure modern muzzleloading rifles are fun for some and that�s ok but foe me , give me my old flintlock any day .


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Been hunting with a flintlock since 1980. I am not a traditional traditionalist at all. I just love the fun and challenge of hunting with a flintlock. If you hunt with a few friends you will have stories that'll put a smile on your face for the rest of your life. Missing a shot because the gun fired 3 seconds after you pulled the trigger doesn't have to be a really bad thing. This is flintlockin and it is not all about the kill!


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Yup, roundball said it well. I shoot traditional black powder rifles using black powder and patched round balls. The in-lines and the stuff that goes with them just ain't my cup of tea. Now, if someone else wants to shoot one, that is fine by me.


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Personally I don't care what anyone shoots as long as its legal and they enjoy....

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my .02






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