Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters So Why the 308?

I'm going to try and keep this as focused a thread as possible. So that there are no confusions:

1) I like 308 WIN. My Opening Day GOTO deer rifle is a 308 WIN
2) I'm not trying to throw shade on any other chambering
3) I'm not trying to elicit everyone's opinion on 308 WIN, just Finn Aagard's
4) I'm especially not trying to start a 308 WIN/30-06 argument. That would easily go 10 pages and get nowhere.

This thread starts with a quote from the recent Finn Aagard/7mm-08 thread



This thread has a convoluted motive. It includes a dead dog. You see, we had to take our beloved Jay for his last ride a few weeks ago. I took that Finn Aagard book with me. That sounds stupid, but we'd been told only one person was allowed in the vet's at a time. I said my goodbyes to Jay in the parking lot and then went back and sat. I tried to read, but I doubt anything really sunk in. Later, KYHillChick came out and said they were making an exception for us. We quickly got as much of the clan together as we could and Jay went out in good style surrounded by family. That ended a 14 year run for Jay and a 70+ year run with that vet. This is the first time the family has been dogless in all that time-- 3 generations of us/ 2 generations of vets.

At any rate, I wasn't feeling too good. I left the Finn Aagard book in the car for a couple of weeks. I finally dragged it out yesterday, along with Jay's collar.

This aforementioned quote from Brad had stuck in my head.

In the meantime, the tribe assembled for Christmas. Angus, Moose, and I were discussing deer rifles, and our deer camp just concluded. They were asking me for my thoughts on the 7mm-08, and they were all positive. I managed to mention Brad's post.

[Yes, Brad. You made it into our Christmas celebration.]

Their question in return was WHY? I didn't have an answer. I also realized that the answer lay back before any of my sons were born, and all my American Rifleman's from that period were lost in the divorce. Yikes! I went back and read through Hunting Rifles and Cartridges, but there were no answers there. The only discussion of 308 WIN was in regards to a 308 WIN carbine Aagard was liked.

Yes, Brad. I do remember that Aagard preferred 308 WIN. I've forgotten exactly why. At the time I read the relevant articles, I was heavily vested in 30-06 and really didn't link about it further. However, we're now approaching a point in our deer camp where the 2nd Gen are starting to break out of the mold that Gen 1 forged for them. They're now looking for their second deer rifle-- the one they want to buy on their own.

So why DID Aagard gravitate to 308 WIN?

Sorry to hear about you pup. Those are simply very hard days when we lose our companions of so many years.

I ran across this recently. Probably gets to what you're after.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...082406/1/finn-aagaard-shots-with-the-308

Those “last rides” are tough. Took my dog for his a year-and-a-half ago, and I won’t do any more of them. He was really ready, I think, but went down especially hard. Sorry about yours.

I came to the conclusion some time ago that for my hunting, the differences between cartridges are minuscule, and bullet performance and shot placement trump everything else. So I am drawn to rifles I like more than what they feed on, with extra points for cartridges I already load for. I bought my Fieldcraft in 6CM instead of .243 because it was in stock, liked the round, and so added it to my list. Bought a Grendel because of the cute little rifle, but when it became more of a project than I wanted, I replaced it with one less cute, but easy to deal with, and that cartridge joined the club too. Always seem to have a .308 lurking around here somewhere, the latest a dandy light Heym 98.

Point being, after my little ramble, Finn likely found that it worked well and was easy; simple as that.

I USED to eschew the 308, calling it the "missionary position" as a boring cartridge. much preferring the 06. Since then, I've come around and "seen the light". It is an efficient, accurate, easy to load killer of a cartridge with a lot more bang for the buck than the 06 OR the 6.5 Gaymoor,

Perhaps because the 308 is available in different/shorter actions.

30 06 is better with heavier bullets because it holds more powder.their are no flies on the 308 up to 168 grs after that the 06 case capacity is needed in my book. When I want 180+ bullets at 2900fps I use a magnum case. Keeps things simple and pressures where they need to be. Some people think you should be able to have 1 gun do everything perfectly that idea is purely minimalist and boring as hell to me. People change cartridges looking for answers they think they didn't have before. They had them they just couldn't see them or acknowledge them it's not a cartridge failure but a human one. Now if someone made a AR -10 in 30-06 I could dump the runt. Mb

One was enuff for me. Ruger 77 UL 20" bll. Accurate and - 'handloaded' - velocity was up there with the 06 150 gr factory loads THEN the 308 lags behind the 06. That UL handled great and I killed WT with it but.....

Jerry

The first gift my wife to be gave me. It is now a 250 AI but a Mauser M12 308 is en route.

Sorry to hear about your dog. Losing them is no fun.

I’ve been re-reading Hunting Rifles & Cartridges lately. I think that this evolution starts with the 375 Holland & Holland, which he used in a 25" Model 70 with factory ammo while hunting for himself and guiding in Kenya. He describes that in “The .375 H&H Mag.”

He began guiding in North America when he moved to Texas in 1977. “A Professional’s Rifle” describes how he liked a 22” Mauser in 30-06 for that because it had the reach, power, and reliability that he needed. His main loads were not downloaded factory ammunition, but full-power handloads: a 150 at 3,000 fps, a 180 at 2,750 or 2,800 fps, and a 220 at 2,550 fps.

“A 308 Carbine” describes using a surplus Mauser in the Texas Hill Country. I don’t think that feral hogs were much of an issue when he wrote that, but the Hill Country was rich in javelina, whitetail deer, turkey, and aoudad. He found the 308 to be perfect for them with a 150-grain bullet at 2,600 fps.

As he put it,


Okie John

I like a 308, it kills game really well.

Why not a 308, I have and use a 30-06 but for deer in similar rifles with similar barrel lengths and similar bullet weights there is no real difference. In bullet weights between 150grs and 180grs the 30-06 is 80 to 100 fps faster. From a ballistic stand point a 308 at the muzzle is equal to a 30-06 at 30 yards. The 30-06 has a 30 yard advantage. In a Remington 700 SPS, both rifles having 24 inch barrels, the 30-06 is 1/2" longer and 2.4 ounces heavier. That is the basic difference between the cartridges, 100fps, 30 yards, 1/2 inch and 2.4 ounces. From a handloading standpoint the 30-06 is more versatile and the 308 is more economical and probably more accurate.

Sorry about your beloved dog.

I can appreciate Finn's pragmatic approach to firearms and hunting. Unfortunately or fortunately? I am a looney. I have played with and hunted many cartridges and rifle combinations. I do not for one second wish, I had not done that.

The right rifle can certainly make any cartridge stand out. The posted article speaks of two such rifles that were chambered in 308. I have owned a couple 308's, but the platforms never grabbed me. Maybe a "scout" rifle should be in my future.......

The 308, like the 30-06 and a few other cartridges are never a wrong choice.

Because you can't get a Sav 99 in 30-06

Thanks for this. I'd not ever gone to the length you did to describe the differences in the two. I'm a 308 guy and never have spent much time around a 30-06.

Thanks all for the kind thoughts about Jay. It was one of those deals where, it was time for everyone involved.

PRM: Thanks for the link. Yeah, that pretty well explains it. Brad posted that article. That was probably what he was meaning in the quote.

Check me if I'm wrong guys:
I don't remember Aagard ever denouncing the 7's (7X57 , 7mm-08, or even 270 WIN) in favor of the 308 WIN. He'd have seemed foolish if he did.
I don't remember Aagard ever denoucing 30-06 in favor of the 308 WIN. He just found that 308 WIN seemed to work for a bunch of stuff and found the right rifle that fit him and his needs.

Bottom line: he never became a 308 WIN snob.

I can see his point I had a Ruger Hawkeye Scout rifles in my hands a few years ago, and I should have taken it home. However, I had other projects in mind at the time. I also don't feel the pressing need for a bobbed-barrel rifle. I can afford an extra couple of inches-- saves the hearing.

On the other hand, my latest infatuation, the TC Compass in 7mm-08 is perfect for my needs at the farm at the moment. I doubt any deer would notice the difference.

Thanks all.

Folks who prefer the 308..


Folks who prefer the 257 Weatherby..

Why the 308? Not sure his reason, but one can speculate. I have killed deer, and elk with the 308, and 30-06. Both, are great, can't go wrong with either. I currently have a 30-06 in savage weather warrior116. Nice gun, shoots1 moa with hand loads. My son has a 308. Rem 700 adl that I got from scenar shooter. Very accurate gun, 1/2 to 3/4 moa I have shot it quite a bit, killed 1 big 6 point bull, and several wolves with it.. It has less recoil than the 30-06. As a broad generalization, I would say that the 308 is more accurate, with a little less recoil, and a little easier to develop accurate hand loads for. I know there will always be exceptions. I am planning to switch to a Tikka 308 this summer for these reasons. As to on game performance,90% of hunters will never tell the difference on their deer or elk. As mentioned above the 30-06 will be better with bullets over180 grains. If I had big bears as a consideration, I would stay with the 30-06 and go with the 200 grain bullet . But most hunters don't have to deal with that as a consideration.

The 308 is a great round, I killed my first couple deer with one, have owned 2. But it's never going to unseat the No. 1 Jack of All Trades - the 30/06.

I started using a .308 due more to the platform rather than the cartridge. I seriously wanted a light 20" barreled bolt rifle in 7-08, but had plenty of bullets and even a set of dies in .308, so .308 it was.

I have both. When I was young the 257 WM was all the rage, but at my age the 308 is boring but always gets the job done