Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Are premium bullets needed for elk?

According to Lewis & Clark's records, during the winter the crew spent at Ft Clatsop, they killed 128 elk, all with flinters. No premiums there. They were trying to dry enough meat for the return trip but it was so wet that they couldn't dry it. Most of it spoiled.
On the return trip, Lewis was shot in the butt by one of the other men who mistook him for an elk in heavy timber. That wasn't a premium, either. Luckily, Lewis wasn't badly hurt but he did spend a couple weeks lying on his belly in a canoe.

Checking back to see if any of those “many” elk were posted yet.

The 175LRX works well at 3350fps out of a 300 ultra. Also does so at 3000 out of a wsm.

I was thinking the same thing!! Haha

This about sums up my thoughts on any bullet/cartridge thread....

No, but it's not like spending money on premium bullets means I can't go elk hunting, so why not?

The question of whether premium bullets are “needed” for elk depends on the circumstances. Most bullets will work most of the time.

That said, I prefer premiums that expand but won’t come apart if hitting bone, whether at spitting distance or my limit of 600 yards.

The smaller the bullet and/or the faster it goes, the more I want a premium bullet.

Yes, they are.
I see too many people judge results on broadside rib shots or moderately quartering away. Miss by a bit and hit bone, or the only shot available and hit bone, or heavily quartering, changes things a lot. Even an elk's stomach full of feed is a formidable obstacle. Even a straight on chest shot is quickly into the vitals without much of an obstacle.

I seen enough well regarded bullets (including well regarded here on the 'fire) hit bone and essentially go "splat", and not penetrate past the first lung. About five years ago, I helped in a 5 hour search of a bull shot with a 180g NBT that hit the shoulder and never made it past the first lung. A one lunged, three legged elk can travel a ways making the recovery dicey, especially if it's in deep timber.

The real test of an elk bullet is up close and on bone. Too many people ponder bullet performance at 400 yds, and spend waaaay too much time agonizing over BC.

Moderate expansion, deep penetration, that's the "trick"........

One gunwriter on here said "Shoot them in the front half". Sage advice. Although sometimes the bullet has to start in a less than optimum spot to reach the front half. That's where the premiums come in.........

And that seems to be the point at which people fail to recognize that they are making a mistake. "Shoot them in the front half" means "shoot them in the front half", not shoot them in the ass, but with a cannon that will also damage the front half.

So, if you had a rifle that didn't shoot your choice of premiums very accurately, but stacked a good garden variety bullet into the bullseye, which would you hunt with?

It really depends on where and how you hunt, as well as on the cartridge you hunt with. Hunting prairie elk requires different bullet considerations than hunting elk in the dark timber. I've hunted elk where the bullet is more likely to "fail" due to getting pushed around by the wind too much or impacting too slow to expand, and I've also hunted elk where the bullet is more likely to fail by not penetrating deep enough on up-close, angling shots including bone. A .45-70 penetrates just fine up close without relying on premium bullets, but I'm in TTSX or LRX mode if carrying a .243" rifle elk or moose hunting.

Actually I have indeed intentionally shot the heaviest bull I've ever killed (well north of 700lbs) with a Texas heart shot. The well beat up Partition ended up just short of the sternum. He traveled about 60yds and was dead by the time I worked my way down the side of the canyon. With a 150g NPT from a 270. Shooting them between the hammies doesn't ruin much meat a'tall and ruins a LOT less meat than shooting them in the shoulder. I grew up where wasting meat with a shoulder shot was a sin. If I have a 360 B&C bull going dead away from me I'll take the shot--my elk loads are up to the task.

There is also the scenario where a wounded critter is still on his feet--regardless if he's mortally wounded and the shooter nor the critter doesn't know it--or if it wasn't a good shot, and the animal is going dead away. Under those circumstances it is more ethical to take the Portuguese Brain Shot rather than wait and the likelihood of not having that perfect opportunity of another broadside shot. For me there is nothing worse than losing a wounded critter.

Also, when heavily quartering away, a shot even a few inches too far back can encounter the stomach, and as mentioned before an elk stomach full of feed can stop a bullet--I've seen it happen several times. My then 17 year old son did just that, the bullet actually skinned the very front of the hind quarter, entering well back of the last rib, through a portion of the stomach, and ended up against the off side shoulder. The 100g NPT out of a 243 traversed through the front half.

I have seen killed and killed a LOT more elk at angles than I have with perfect broadside shots. Elk have a tendency not to cooperate in that fashion.

Moderate expansion, deep penetration, and make sure the bullet traverses the front half, that's the "trick".

Again, you seem to have utterly missed the point of the advice to, "Shoot them in the front half."

Smoke,
I would take the 1 1/2" group premium over the 1/2" group target bullet masquerading as a hunting bullet in a heartbeat. Make that a 2" group for the premiums. There is the fact we have more confidence in a very accurate load. I've struggled with that very choice in the past.

Couple things; Elk are creatures of the timber wherever they naturally occur in the world. I had friend who was a "project" biologist who had studied Siberian tigers in southern Russia for 5 years, and in the course of that study also looked at elk that were tiger prey. He even mentioned that when pressured by human hunting or by tigers elk would retreat to dense timber. Even the Manitoban elk referred to as "plains" elk were historically found not far from the heavily wooded river valleys of the plains, and occurred in the highest densities in the forests of what is now Arkansas, eastern Missouri, up through Minnesota and into Manitoba. Further west those densities declined.

I worked on a elk disturbance study 20 years ago. The telemetry collared cows we "disturbed" were used on a previous study that looked at elk migration patterns with an emphasis on the falll in the southern portion of the White River NF, including the Flat Tops Wilderness. The grad student conducting the study showed me the migration and dispersion of elk beginning with archery, then blackpowder, then each rifle season. The overwhelming majority of elk headed pell mell onto private land and the public land hellhole breaks along the Colorado River.

Yes there are places where a guy can set up shop with his long range rig and have a good chance of killing an elk, but they aren't all that common, and even less common on public land outside of very limited hunting units, and even then the elk get the idea within a day or two of being shot at. I've hunted and killed elk in most of the Rocky Mountain states, the dry side of Oregon, and BC. Wherever I go, whatever I have been told or read, elk are creatures of the timber. That two inch group doesn't mean much at less than 300 yds, and the big majority of elk are encountered at those ranges.

One of these days I'll figure out how to post pics of the "Wall Of Shame" on the gable end of our shop of dead, UNRECOVERED elk found in GMU 61 and 62, all of them within a 30-40 minute hike of our high country place. Many of them were fresh enough to see the bullet entrance and most were shot in the front half. Two of them were fresh enough I've done "bullet necropsies" on. In both cases the bullet went "splat". I have a friend who in the past 3 years has found a 340 and 365 B&C gross unrecovered bulls in GMU61.

No, you missed my point. Whether I arrive in the kitchen through the front door, the back door, or the side door, I still get to eat.........

Many hunters reach an age and a point in their hunting career when taking any available shot to put an elk on the ground isn't a must do thing, including myself. At times, putting the safety back on seems a prudent thing to do.The older I get the fussier I get as to what shots I take.Probably muzzle loader hunting pushed me in that direction, although now days I guess there are even premium bullets for muzzle loaders. The 220 gr round nose C&C moving slow but steady killed a lot of elk, but I also used 180 gr partitions if not in the dark timber.

I agree with Coyote Hunter. The faster you push a bullet ,the more need for a premium bullet. This seemed to be a hard lesson to learn for the folks that started using magum velocities cartridges and C&C bullets,then promptly cried bullet failure. Kiling elk isn't all that hard.

As you can tell from these pics, you don’t want em goin to far after the shot. Miles of what you see behind em..
uncharted 3 desktop wallpaper

Jud,
That thick of a forest exists in Colorado--and Utah-- also. Different vegetation but same effect. And that's where I shot both of my bulls. I go where the elk are, not where the internet tries to dictate.

Cool photos. I've got to watch Roosies in Washington and BC in the past. One of my goals is to bag a Roosevelt. I'd love to get one that has the classic "crowning".

Well, I probably would too but that wasn't the question. 1 1/2 inches is plenty accurate for most shots on elk. Just trying to get at what's more important, ability to place the shot where you want it, or premium bullets.

Personally I don't need a bullet that will plow through two feet of elk to reach the vitals because I'm not taking that shot.