Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer Article on the .308 Win.

I reread your article from Feb 2006 Handloader entitled "Why the .308 is Great". While I think the .308 is a good cartridge I have never been able to warm up to it. In the article you say, to paraphrase, the 30-06 is at its best accuracy 100 fps slower than top speed about what a .308 gets and where it is still accurate. How then does that figure with the faster 30s? Are they less accurate still (not something I have noticed) or is there something about the 30-06 design that makes it less accurate when driven to its top speed.

Thank you for your time.

I just re-read his article "Why I hate the 308" a few evenings ago. I don't recall the velocity/accuracy corollary in that issue...:)

I have three 30-06's. A Ruger No.1A, a Remington 760 and a Winchester Model 70. All three will hold about a inch with the same full power load.

Doc

In general, yes, the larger the cartridge, the less accurate, at least at normal ranges. But this is largely unnoticed because of many factors, especially in factory sporters that are relatively light, have relatively loose chambers, scopes not designed for precision, etc, and are run by people who are generally not adept at handloading super-accurate ammo or shooting tiny groups.

I really don't want to discuss this further here, because it will just get into a whole ball of wax that was just done over again in another forum about inherent accuracy. If you want to argue the point, then read the article that will be out in HANDLOADER on that very subject any day now.

The two articles written on the the .308, "Why I Hate The .308" and "Why The .308 Is Great," have different themes, which is why they are not really contradictory, even though written by the same person!

JB

"I thought I did not like the 308, that was until I screwed up and took one hunting"

Pretty much. The first article ("Hate") was about irrational dislikes some people have for certain cartridges. I avoided the .308 for years because my first real rifle was a .308, a Savage 99 with steel buttplate and a terrible trigger. It was too much for a 112-pound kid, and gave me a terrible flinch that took years to get over. The fault was not the .308's, but that was my point: Most of us develop prejudices against certain rounds not because of the cartridge itself (there are really very few bad rounds on the market, especially with today's marvelous bullets for everything from varmints to moose), but because of the rifle involved.

The second article ("Great") was about why the .308 really is great.

JB

Pretty much. The first article ("Hate") was about irrational dislikes some people have for certain cartridges. I avoided the .308 for years because my first real rifle was a .308, a Savage 99 with steel buttplate and a terrible trigger. It was too much for a 112-pound kid, and gave me a terrible flinch that took years to get over. The fault was not the .308's, but that was my point: Most of us develop prejudices against certain rounds not because of the cartridge itself (there are really very few bad rounds on the market, especially with today's marvelous bullets for everything from varmints to moose), but because of the rifle involved.

The second article ("Great") was about why the .308 really is great. I actually didn't even screw up and hunt with one. I deliberately purchased a rifle that cost over $3000 in the chambering!

JB

A match rifle in 308 with military match ammo will outshoot 99% of the guys who think they are good shots. Sure, bring yer wallet

Mule Deer

Like I said before I never could warm up to the .308 Win. My first rifle was a 30-06 Mod 670 Win that put 5 handloaded Nosler Partitions into one ragged hole you could cover with a dime. That took quit some doing on my part (I was just beginning to handload) to get those rounds as perfect as I was capable. I was satisfied and never did it again figuring the 3/4' to 1" 3 shot groups I was getting with it without the effort were good enough for hunting. So, I guess that gets back to your point that in everyday rifles one doesn't see the difference and goes on perfectly happy. The only unhappy thing was I sold that rifle with the understanding I would get first crack at buying it back. Well, the guy gave it to his brother instead.

Thank you for responding.

The 308 never did got me too excited until I bought a used Kimber 84m, I was looking for a new 7-08, couldn't find one and then this popped up. REally light, fairly accurate, recoil is Ok even at 6 lbs scoped, kills deer like lightning with regular bullets.

Me also. DI not care for it, then I borrowed one and killed a big ol' boar hog. Loved it ever since.

BMT

I've always avoided the .308 and 30/06 mainly because all the 'old men' in deer camp had them in Remmy auto's and they just seemed boring. I now own both, since I've gotten over their 'lack of appeal'..no belt or anything! One thing I've noticed after shooting my stock .308 700 BDL and my son's 700 SPS youth in .308..it just seems to want to shoot. Even handloads, they shot almost everything with monotonious regularity. I've killed several whitetails out to about 300 yards and it's performance is impressive. That kind of performace is suppose to come from rifles with longer bolts. I guess all those 'old guys' in deer camp did know what they were talking about.

The older I get and the more rifles and cartridges I try the more I like the old cartridges with modest velocities....... like the .222 Rem., .243, .308, .30-06, .338 Win Mag, .375 H&H.
They all do what needs to get done.

One little secret about the .308: with 130 and 150-grain bullets, it is easy to match .270 Winchester muzzle velocities. This doesn't seem like much, but muzzle velocity is the MAJOR influence on trajectoryout to the normal maximum of 300-400 yards. So the .308 essentially matches the .270, which has always had the reputation of being a very flat-shoting round.

If you don't believe all this, look up some loading data and ballistics tables--or load 'em up and shoot 'em yourself.

JB

My one and only true big game rifle is a .308. I bought it 30+ years ago and immediately discovered it was all I'd likely ever need. Maybe I'll take less guff for it now that I'm a genuine geezer.

Nope you'll still take a bunch of guff, but we will respect you...

Dober

After rereading my last post to Mule Deer it sounded like I was getting a little snobbish. Not my intent, just saying what this inexpensive rifle would do.

Snobbish? On the Campfire? Why, we never tolerate ANY of that sort of stuff!

No, I didn't take it that way. Personally, I have a bunch of relatively cheap rifles that shoot incredibly well, and I am just as fond/proud of them as you are. The fact is that today's factory rifles and fine bullets shoot about as well as any of need even for the most demending hunting.

The fact that my own .308 cost so much is just an example of, well, snobbishness.

JB

The .308 has a cult following among deer hunters in Australia. It is reliably efficient at dropping 5 of the 6 species of deer there in their tracks. Sambar of course, usually and commonly, take a lot more shots to stop with the .308.

My first sambar hunt was a lesson in demonstrating my ignorance to the full. I had the pleasure of hunting with a Botanist who was obsessed with them. He would show me a track where there was none to be seen and browse where I never thought to look, then recite the latin name as well as the common name and inform me why they ate one part of the plant and not another. Good thing I like learning as he taught me much.

His choice of rifles were 2 identical factory selected Steyr Luxus carbines in 9.3 X 62 and .308. ALthough the 9.3 was the cartridge that could drop a sambar with one shot and the .308 regularly required two or more on a departing and wounded animal, he still preferred to carry that .308. That, I never understood, at least for sambar.

The Deer stalking clubs were full of .308's however, and for fallow/whitetail sized game through to red/kudu sized animals, the .308 performed with utter reliability.

Most hunters there use the 130 grain bullet for pest control and 150 grainers for serious deer and pig hunting. I never met any heavy bullet users that I can remember, but I did hunt with people who took shots equally as long in range as myself, or any others in camp who chose a bigger cartridge.

One thing that stood out over the years, was that a .308 user, usually stayed away from the bugger cartridges on the basis that they saw no deficit in the .308's performance and also I never saw a .308 user ever, that walked away from the cartridge. That, is interesting and a testement within itself.

AGW

My first 308 was a little pricey, it was a Blaser Stutzen K95 single shot. I fell in love with the rifle first. I didn't want to wait till another came along in a more "suitable" caliber so I "made do" with the 308 and figured it would grow on me. When the time came to add another barrel I opted for a 22 Hornet barrel as opposed to a "more suitable" deer round as I originally had planned. It has proved itself well. I have also been pleased with the managed recoil loads that Remington offers.