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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,255 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,255 Likes: 16 |
This is what QL shows for the 150gr Hornaday and Varget:
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 150, Hornady SP 3031
Useable Case Capaci: 64.410 grain H2O = 4.182 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET *T
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.971% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-09.7 81 46.50 2540 2150 35497 7846 94.4 1.361
-08.7 82 47.00 2565 2192 36465 7937 94.8 1.346
-07.8 83 47.50 2590 2234 37457 8027 95.2 1.331
-06.8 84 48.00 2615 2277 38475 8115 95.6 1.314
-05.8 84 48.50 2639 2320 39520 8202 95.9 1.297
-04.9 85 49.00 2664 2363 40591 8287 96.3 1.281
-03.9 86 49.50 2688 2407 41689 8370 96.6 1.265
-02.9 87 50.00 2713 2451 42816 8451 96.9 1.250
-01.9 88 50.50 2737 2495 43972 8530 97.2 1.234
-01.0 89 51.00 2761 2540 45158 8607 97.5 1.219
+00.0 90 51.50 2786 2585 46375 8683 97.8 1.205
+01.0 91 52.00 2810 2630 47623 8756 98.0 1.190
+01.9 91 52.50 2834 2676 48903 8827 98.3 1.176
+02.9 92 53.00 2858 2721 50217 8896 98.5 1.162
+03.9 93 53.50 2882 2767 51565 8962 98.7 1.148 ! Near Maximum !
+04.9 94 54.00 2906 2814 52949 9026 98.9 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 90 51.50 2826 2659 48668 8700 98.8 1.179
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 90 51.50 2743 2505 44097 8631 96.4 1.232
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750 |
Wow AS.
Thanks for your input. Those numbers almost mirror my results. This is a confirmation. I thought my chronograph was giving me bad data.
Kudos to you my friend.
GB
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,255 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,255 Likes: 16 |
Wow AS.
Thanks for your input. Those numbers almost mirror my results. This is a confirmation. I thought my chronograph was giving me bad data.
Kudos to you my friend.
GB Happy to help old friend. Good luck in the field.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,031 Likes: 28
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,031 Likes: 28 |
Another option, maybe again for the future when stuff reappears, is to drop down more in bullet weight to 125 or 130gr. I picked up a couple of boxes of 130gr TTSXs to try in a 6 1/4lb .308 with no recoil pad. They sorta turn the .308 into a .270 of sorts when pushed hard, but should work okay ru a bit slower too.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 328
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 328 |
Another option, maybe again for the future when stuff reappears, is to drop down more in bullet weight to 125 or 130gr. I picked up a couple of boxes of 130gr TTSXs to try in a 6 1/4lb .308 with no recoil pad. They sorta turn the .308 into a .270 of sorts when pushed hard, but should work okay ru a bit slower too. The 125 gr. Sierra is fantastic!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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Keeping notes guys. Thanks!
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,950 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,950 Likes: 16 |
I normally load 4198 and RL 7 for what I call kid loads, because that is who I normally load them for..
I have NO use for reduced loads using H 4895, unlike most others... If you have to use 4895, pick up some IMR instead...
Surprised there was no one suggesting good old 3031....with a 150, ( I recommend Nosler Ballistic Tip because they open at low velocity) try anything from 35 grains to say 44 grains...
as far as velocity needs, consider this....
An antelope is 14 inches from back bone to breast bone....so smaller than a deer...
Cut that in half is 7 inches....consider that your window of opportunity...
you can check this on a ballistic chart if ya want, but any spitzer bullet, regardless of weight, if launched at 2250 fps muzzle velocity, if zeroed 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, it will be pretty much dead on at 200 yds and 3.5 inches low at 230 to 240 yds....hence considering that 7 inch window of opportunity I mention above...
Since 90% of most game is taken at 100 yds or less, and 95% at 200 yds or less...
if one can hold steady enough to aim on hair, you should be able to hit your 7 inch window of opportunity...
most 150 grainers in 30 cal are made to operate at 30/30 speeds, and be effective...and do their job on a deer..
So that being considered, if your shoulder needs relief, 2250 fps to say 2400 fps, you have a load that will be more than up to the task at hand....you are in the 300 Savage - 30/40 Krag operating range...
This is the logic I finally had dawn on me years ago, loading ammo for kids and women... and it has certainly brought home the venison on most of the shooters... only times it didn't, their shot missed the deer...
also in that thought process, is added the fact that I was a military medic in the Army, from 1975 to 1982. So I understand and know Anatomy and Physiology, which is included in that thought process...
either way, hope you heal up, and best of luck in your endeavors...
cheers, seafire
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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I normally load 4198 and RL 7 for what I call kid loads, because that is who I normally load them for..
So that being considered, if your shoulder needs relief, 2250 fps to say 2400 fps, you have a load that will be more than up to the task at hand....you are in the 300 Savage - 30/40 Krag operating range...
cheers, seafire seafire, I savvy everything you said - I can follow and agree with your logic. The reason for the recoil reduction is not for "shoulder relief"....it is for brain relief. After having 3 major brain surgeries last year, I have become very recoil sensitive. I went out Tuesday with my heavy barrel 223. I can shoot it well...and can tolerate the recoil. BUT you put that 30-06 in my hand, and after 6 shots - my head is pounding - pressure inside my head rises - causing the top of my head to go numb. My real issue is I am trying to prove to the Doctors and to myself that I am past this trauma in my life.. Apparently the Drs. are right - and my body confirms it. If I get another chance to hunt this year, I'm lugging the heavy 223. It shoots sub MOA out to 100 yards with 55gr. Barnes TX bullets. And as you pointed out, 90% of my shots over the last 45 years have been in the 100 yards or less zone. If God allows, I am going to hunt again. If I go out - I wish to go out living. Thanks for the input. GB
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189 |
I normally load 4198 and RL 7 for what I call kid loads, because that is who I normally load them for..
So that being considered, if your shoulder needs relief, 2250 fps to say 2400 fps, you have a load that will be more than up to the task at hand....you are in the 300 Savage - 30/40 Krag operating range...
cheers, seafire seafire, I savvy everything you said - I can follow and agree with your logic. The reason for the recoil reduction is not for "shoulder relief"....it is for brain relief. After having 3 major brain surgeries last year, I have become very recoil sensitive. I went out Tuesday with my heavy barrel 223. I can shoot it well...and can tolerate the recoil. BUT you put that 30-06 in my hand, and after 6 shots - my head is pounding - pressure inside my head rises - causing the top of my head to go numb. My real issue is I am trying to prove to the Doctors and to myself that I am past this trauma in my life.. Apparently the Drs. are right - and my body confirms it. If I get another chance to hunt this year, I'm lugging the heavy 223. It shoots sub MOA out to 100 yards with 55gr. Barnes TX bullets. And as you pointed out, 90% of my shots over the last 45 years have been in the 100 yards or less zone. If God allows, I am going to hunt again. If I go out - I wish to go out living. Thanks for the input. GB If or until things change, your 223 will do the job admirably. No deer requires a 30 caliber bullet, and the 22 cals will kill (quickly) far bigger critters than many guys are willing to admit, just with chest shots.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,935 Likes: 23
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,935 Likes: 23 |
Where the 223 isn't legal I'd say a 6mm of some type would do nicely.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 859
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 859 |
Ditto on the 130TTSX.
Full house 243 with the 85TTSX is an easy shooting combo...
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,950 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,950 Likes: 16 |
When people talk about recoil reduction loads, they want to reduce velocity, but they never seem to list the ranges that they are usually shooting those loads at....
in an 06, if its deer they are after, a 150 grain is plenty good enough, to take any deer whoever walked...
while most game (90%) is taken under 100 yds.....95% of all game is taken under 200 yds....
a deer is 16 inches from back bone to breast bone regardless of the weight of the animal...
if you look at a velocity chart, any spitzer bullet regardless of caliber,
if it leaves the muzzle at 2250 fps... if zeroed at 3.5 inches at 100 yds, it will be dead on at 200 yds, and 3.5 inches low at 230 to 240 yds...
in an 06, if you use a 150 grain bullet with an MV of 2400 fps, which equates to a 300 Savage equivalent.... you are good to 230 to 240 yds without any compensation on your scope elevation ( if zeroed 3.5 in high at 100 yds)...
This formula give a window of opportunity of 7 inches... 3.5 inch high at 100 to 3.5 inches low at 240 yds.. on an animal that is 16 inches window of opportunity from back bone to breast bone..
30 grs of 4198 or RL 7 will give you 2400 fps MV with a 150 grain bullet....and give better accuracy than a lot of other reduced loads..
a cast bullet manual is your friend... I use a Lyman Manual... I have two, the other is the lastest edition for newer powders.. the older ones are from the 1980s.... who use a lot of data even older than that...
2400 fps out of an 06 is more of a slight push vs a punch style of recoil....
Last edited by Seafire; 01/12/21.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,556
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,556 |
The conversation about reduced loads should always include bullet performance, too. I think that the 150 Interlock is a great choice and like has been stated, even dropping to a 125-30-grain bullet would work well. These low velocities, in my mind, exclude the monos, which can be problematic at times, when the velocity is low.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,884 Likes: 11 |
H-4895 and a 125 Accubond or Ballistic Tip at 3000 to 3100 fps. Sample of one, last year a 125 AB on a 185 lb buck went through the meaty part of both shoulders and stopped under the skin on the offside. Perfect mushroom and the buck stumbled about 20 feet.
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,704 Likes: 53 |
A 130 TTSX might be the ticket at the starting load. I’ve killed some pigs with them in a 300 Savage. They hammered the pigs in their tracks.
Last edited by hanco; 01/13/21.
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,531 Likes: 29 |
I’ve found 4064 is far less recoil in 270 and 30-06 and accuracy is good
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