Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 158 gr. SWC Load With Unique

I haver a SW model 36 with 3" heavy barrel. Manufactured in 1970.It has been carried a lot and shot sparingly probably under 1000 rounds. All factory loads. Since there are no factory loads available I have brass, bullets, primers and powder to reload it. The bullets are 158 gr. lead SWC with a BHn of 18. I have no data for that bullet. In searching the net I keep coming up data of 5.0 gr. of Unique as the old FBI, Treasury load. Question is that a +P load? Since the model 36 of that year manufacture isn't rated for +P how much would I need to back it off to be safe and useable? Thanks in advance!

4.5 grs. of Unique with a 158 grain cast bullet has been a classic standard pressure .38 Special load for as long as I can remember. The Lyman manual shows it getting right around 16,000 CUP with three different cast bullet styles.

5.1 to 5.3 grs. depending on the bullet style gets around 18,000 CUP and is shown as +P.

There was no +P when it was made. Nevertheless it’s all steel and heat treated so it’s +P rated whether or not the factory acknowledges it. When the Airweight Chief debuted Elmer Keith wrote of putting thousands of rounds of his heavy 38 special through the one they sent him with no undue effects, it was an aluminum frame.

5gr Unique is a good load, probably my most used from my 2” Chief to my 38/44s. Good everyday working load.

That's my go to for standard pressure.

This 5.0 grains is my go to load in my m60 and k frames, you got to remember a j frame maybe smaller than a k but cyl walls are thicker and that counts . Mb

I load 5.5 grains of Unique for all my .38 revolvers. 50+ years, no issues.

Thanks for the replies. It's much appreciated. Does anyone load blue dot under the 158gr. LSWC?

I've loaded a lot of 158 cast bullets with 6 grains of Unique in the .38. A guy on here with "Load From a Disc" software on his computer plugged in the data and said it was at about 26,000 PSI. I shoot them in S&W Model 10s. I keep most of my .38 loads at about that level.

Lately I've been shooting 7 grains of AA#5 with 158 cast bullets.

18 Brinell is a very hard alloy for 38 Special pressure. I hope it works out for you.

18 bnh is about where bullets quench cast from wheelweight alloy land. I've shot thousands of them through .38s. .357s and .44 magnums. I've also shot quench cast wheelweight bullets through a 10" Thompson Center Contender in .357 Maximum in excess of 1700 fps and .303 British rifles at 1850 fps with no leading.

When I first started casting bullets I was concerned about barrel leading. But a proper hardcast bullet can be pushed very hard without leading the barrel. I used gas checked bullets in firearms where I was going to go much beyond 1150 fps.

Dead soft swaged lead bullets will lead barrels without being pushed very fast. But hardcast bullets never caused me any leading problems.

The hardness of the bullets isn't a help or a hindrance. It is what it is. The issue is bullet hardness along with bullet fit. I've seen more leading with ill-fitting hard bullets than ill-fitting soft bullets in revolvers, semi-autos, single-shots, and bolt guns. Hard bullets that are too small won't bump up under the relatively low pressure of 38 Special loads. This allows gas flow around the sides of the bullet, which causes leading, specifically along the leeward side of the lands. I've seen it dozens of times in others' guns. Hardcast bullets are far harder to get to shoot, unless they are cast to fit a specific gun's throat dimensions.

Truer words were never spoken. Size handgun bullets to fit the throats (revolver or semiauto) and it won't matter much what the hardness is. I routinely follow that protocol and cast of an alloy of bhn9-10 - and never am bothered by leading. Save the hard alloys and/or water quenching for high velocity rifle shooting and don't waste it in pistols.

I too had a big awakening years ago when an old pro clued me in when I was bragging about my hard-as-woodpecker lips revolver bullets.

Addendum: I load mostly 3.1 grains Bullseye for general shooting/plinking with 158 SWC's. More bangs per buck than Unique, though I do up the game with stiff charges of Unique for the handful of stiff self defense loads I sometimes (rarely) feel the need in having.

Well,..that's not been my experience. Most of the molds I cast from would be about .001" oversize as they dropped from the mold. I never sized them. I would run a sizer/lube die .001" over to apply the lube and attach the gas check. I never had any leading problems with any of them.

I competed for a couple of years in IHMSA using nothing but my own cast bullets made from quench cast wheelweight alloy. I shot in AAA class in both production and revolver.

Currently, I'm shooting both hardcast and swaged bullets out of a collection of K-frame .38 revolvers. The swaged bullets will start leaving small streaks in the barrel at around 1000 fps. But I push the hardcast bullets as fast as I happen to feel like with no thought to leading the barrel,...been that way for a long time.

Obviously your cast bullets serendipitously fit your cylinder throats to a T - either right at throat diameter or slightly over. And I'd bet your swaged bullets are under throat diameter which is why you get some leading with them - that and the crummy dry lube they typically put on swaged bullets not being up to the task of 1000 fps.

One of the major "secrets" in cast bullet shooting in any kind of gun is to cork the hot gasses tightly behind the bullet before, during, and after its launch down the barrel. Therein lies the best chance for no leading. That and a good lube.

There's a lot of things I ned to learn about. Casting quality hardcast bullets isn't one of them.

By the way, unless you're casting bullets for specific expansion characteristics, adding tin or casting from Linotype is a waste of money. Expansion from any cast bullet is a very iffy proposition regardless of the bnh, anyway.

Quench casting old school straight wheelweight alloy will give you very good bullets if you get the temperature correct and learn to time cutting the sprue at the point where it will neither tear the base or leave a nub on it.

There's a rhythm to it that tales a while to learn but about halfway through the first 5 gallon of wheelweights it should be second nature.

Also, don't size quench cast wheel weight alloy bullets. Use a mold that casts about .001" oversize and lube them with a sizer die .001" oversize. RCBS molds are usually very concentric and cast at an appropriate size. Lyman's are also good but it's necessary to keep the alignment pins extended far enough to keep the mold halves concentric. Occasionally, you'll need to peck them out a few thousandths with a pin punch. Over time they will back into the hold and not line the mold halves together correctly.

All of that putzing around about throat diameter is a waste of time. Leave them .001" oversize and they will be throat diameter soon enough.

Oversize of what? They aren’t oversize unless they’re over throat diameter. Just because they’re over nominal for the mold doesn’t make them oversize.

In any event, it doesn't seem to make much difference. .001" over nominal groove diameter, quench cast wheel weight allow shot as dropped from the mold.

If your firearm won't shoot them accurately with no leading, trade it off. It's junk.

Well, okay then...