Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

RIP,
I also used the 450 NF in mine, or the 450 TSX. Both were loaded up to 2550-2575fps, it was a handful but man what it did to Buffalo was simply incredible. Shot many sub 1/2” groups with them as well. That big case full of R15 was something for sure.
I used the Lott before I had the 450 and it was much easier to handle, but by no means gentle! I’d think your souped up 458 would be similar.

gunner500,

If anyone can do it you can: Hit the 1125-yard gong with the .458 WM+
Here is a starting place for the suggested load for you to fine tune to suit your rifle.
Remember you can load some ammo longer than 3.600" for target and gong.



BC of the 500-grain TSX is 0.412 according to latest Barnes estimates.
78.0 grains of AA-2230 found the accuracy node at 2250 fps from a whippy CZ barrel of 24-7/8".
I went up to 83.0 grains for 2342 fps with decreasing accuracy:



My COL was 3.780".
Shorten the COL and less powder will be needed for the MV desired, etc., plenty of leeway for fine tuning.

Assuming 2250 fps and sight height of 1.75" with 2250 fps MV
+3.24" at 100 yards
zero at 200 yards
~ 1 foot low at 300 yards (-13.17")
~ 3 feet low at 400 yards (-38.38")
~ 6-1/2 feet low at 500 yards (-78.24")
~ 11 feet low at 600 yards (-135.91")

Drop at 1125 yards = 881.88" = 73.49 feet for a shot on level target. 74.869 MOA drop at 1125 yards.

If you are shooting slightly uphill, drop will be less (angle for calculation unknown).

75 MOA will be more than enough, through a combination of forward tilt of a Picatinny base, hold-over with a graduated reticle, and dialing of the scope,
with sight-in as above.
Surely this is possible.

Wind drift at 1125 yards in a 10 mph crosswind is only 13.587 feet.
Take a few sighters for the wind.

LOL! my pleasure Fufar and Beretzs, just here to help, my Friends!

Good stuff Ron, I'd need to get some AA-2230 and 500gr TSX's, with your generous gift, I'm flush with the 450gr TSX's, would need to run the b.c.'s and vels on both to see what's the flattest shooting, need to get a 20 minute rail for my M-70 458 Win Mag+...........................do have a couple 24-36? Harris bi-pods for seated vermin slaying, would need to make sure and not shear the 6-48 factory threads, may need to go 8-40 to hold a heavy Nightforce under those recoil numbers.

gunner500,

I don't seem to be able to do anything without your help.
Heckfire!
The 450-gr TSX at 2450 fps MV does shoot flatter to 1125 yards than the 500-gr TSX at 2250 fps !
But it has more wind drift.
Oh well, some sighters will take care of that just as well.

450-gr TSX BC = 0.369
MV = 2450 fps in the .458 WM+
Sight height = 1.75"

___50 yds: +1.42"

__100 yds: +3.00"

__150 yds: +2.82"

_210.3 yds: ZERO

__250 yds: -3.58"

__300 yds: -10.24"

__350 yds: -19.56"

__400 yds: -31.83"

__450 yds: -47..41"

__500 yds: -66.67"

__600 yds: -118.00"

_1125 yds: -823.03" = -68.5 feet: This will require less than 70 MOA of rail tilt, reticle holdover, and dialing. 69.86 MOA calculated by RCBS.

Drift at 1125 yards in a 10 mph crosswind is 172.8" or 14.4 feet.
Take all the sighters you like. Yee hah.

. Ron; great to see you firein on all cylinders !

Yes the roof is forest service green. Wife wanted blue. I wanted dried mud brown. So we settled on green . If I could figure out the pics I'de post one up.
My left rotator cuff is continuing to improve . I'm looking forward to spring time and getting my loading and shooting hut set up. With a bit of clearing and been building . I can have a 200 meter shooting range on my homestead.

, between the both of us I know we'll get it done, and no trouble if I shear some screws, this rifle wont wear a scope when hunting Africa, I don't need optics to shoot a couch at 20 yards, just like my 505 Gibbs, those 600 grain Woodleighs are scope killing some-b's.

Rip,
It appears I signed up for this site some time back but I don't think I have ever posted. So my first is for the Great and gracious 458WM.
Best regards,
Fury01

CTF,
Excellent on all that, especially the homestead shootin' range.

gunner500,
I now have range cards made up for the 450-gr TSX.
Will use KY windage and TN elevation with whatever sights are on the rifle, out to 600-yard gong.
Leaving the 1125-yard gong to you.


Fury01, Ol'Buddy,
It is about time you escaped ardotcom.
There are lots of folks over there that would benefit the world more if they would take up plinking with one of these,
from an ad I found at Champlin's:

Fury01 reminds me of the cast 480-ish-grainer at sub-2000-fps that he has found to be so effective on deer and such from his .458 WM.
Pleasant and sure killers.
Some cast bullet loads follow that I would recommend.
These are all done with 65.0 gr of AA-2230.
The seating depth and the bullet weight are both important factors in how much velocity derives from that fixed charge of powder.
The SAAMI .458 WM throat is the important factor in making them all accurate enough for hunting.
The tight throat of the .458 Lott (only 0.459" diameter in its short length of free-bore) severely limits chambering of the 0.461"-diameter bullets best for accuracy.





The last one above is an example of a bullet that can only be seated to 3.385" in the .458 WM.
To chamber a loaded round of this in a SAAMI .458 Lott would be impossible,
without nose sizing the bullet enough to fit in the Lott throat.
Of course we could also nose-size that bullet for the .458 WM+ and load it longer than possible in .458 Lott:



Bill Bagwell has used the 480-ish-grain, semi-hard, Lyman PH (Parker Hale) bullet at about 1300 fps (with BP)
in his .45-70 & etc. Sharps 1874 rifles with barrel sights
to take game in NA and Africa, near and far, bison to zebra, etc. out to 500-ish-yards.
That RCBS 45-500 FNGC bullet has a shape very close to the PH.
With its extra weight, hardness, and velocity from the scoped, smokeless, .458 WM, what is not to like ?
Consider that all the above cast bullet loads were test-fired in a 23"-bareled M70 Winchester named Marcella, a very handy rifle.
The 1:14" twist worked well with all of the cast bullets.
Mine are all PC-painted, and most are gas-checked.
Making your own bullets has much to recommend it, while our brass, powder and primers last.
When it really hits the fan, FLINTLOCKS.
Eat the Democrats first.

Ron, sorry if I missed it somewhere, but have you ever tried Trailboss in the 458? I believe a case full works out under 20 grains or so( dont take my word for it anyone, I dont have either powder or case to test, going off Prof Google here only).

Also getting into real rarified air, any thought on guard loads for the 458? Guard loads were the 8-10 grains of bullseye type powders in 30-06 with jacketed bullets for guarding civil enclosures in WW2. Velocities around the speed of sound, groups were actuallly pretty good 1-2 MOA, obviously very low report. Information probably of no worth for your project, no idea whether 'scaling up' to 458 guard loads is possible or dangerous ? but thought I would throw it in there anyway.

Some info on guard loads from my friend Ed Harris, probably the no.1 bullet caster in the world and former government bullet tester.
https://castbulletassoc.org/blog/ar...lery-practice-loads-with-bullseye-powder

I ended up with Mike's pair of .458's.

One I had re-barreled to .416 Remington using a Remington take off barrel and also had the action opened up to fit a custom made magazine that had 95mm Internal OAL which according to my digital calipers approximates an OAL of 3.740".

The second one I left in .458 Winchester though I did have both stocks refinished so they looked like a pair. I shot mostly feral goats and pigs with that pair before immigrating to the US where I bought another one that was Electroless Nickel plated and came with 2 stocks, being a pretty chunk of figured walnut like we never got in Oz and a Plastic Weatherproof stock that was already bedded for a nasty weather combo.

This one is very special as it has had a "master 'smith" work the action and trigger like no Winchester I ever played with and shoot, even Mike would drool over this one.

John,

Do you still have that 460?

158XTP,

That Guard &Gallery Practice load article was a hoot !
I got the last 2-pound jug of Trail Boss off the shelf at the local emporium a few months ago.
Same size as an 8-pound jug of H4895.
Weird stuff, fluffy-light donut-granules.
Can't even get up the oomph of a BP load with that stuff.
It will be good for subsonic loads in a suppressed .458 WM if I ever get that Bushwhacker-46 can.
Could be fun for rat killin'.

Here is Marcella the .458 WM+ M70 with 23" No.4 McGowen barrel shortened ftom a 26" to 23" so muzzle is barely thick enough (0.670" muzzle diameter).
Next time I will go with a a No. 5 McGowen Sporter Contour. I am not getting any younger.



The First 6 shots fired through Marcella were to see how her true .458" groove diameter and usual 1:14" twist reacted to known ammo.
It was no different than other rifles up to .459" groove diameter that I have.
Hornady 500-gr DGX ammo is supposed to be 2140 fps in a 24" barrel, we assume at 70*F.
Marcella gave 2125 fps MV.
Add 15 fps to correct for the 1" shorter barrel and she is right at 2140 fps MV at 55*F.
Hornady makes good factory ammo for the .458 WM:



The handload is a .458 WM+ standard of 400-gr GSC HV with 80.0 gr of AA-2230 +2500 fps in my 25" barrels (Shilen & CZ),
the perfect "running deer" load.
By golly ! The McGowen 23" at 2511 fps MV did about the same as the 25" barrels with .459" grooves.

After that I cleaned the barrel, then shot 50 rounds of cast bullets, the red ones I posted most recently above,
Here is what Marcella's muzzle looked like after 50 rounds of powder-coat-painted bullets and AA-2230:




Add-on weights for Marcella:

Ron;
Could you post up a couple pics of Alderella.
I'll be sprucing up The Spruce King soon and I really liked Alderella.
Might get some Keeper ideas

Riflecrank, my Wife is laughing at us again when I explained to her about trying for the 1125 yard gong with a 458 Win Mag+, she asked what on earth is The King and Private 1ST Class Knight going to come up with next? she did however extend full faith in our endeavors!

"eat the democrats first.."
That is how Chronic Wasting disease gets spread...

I acquired my M70 Super Grade ( 22 inch barrel ) after it being offered to me from a friend . All I had to do was buy $500 of factory ammunition and the rifle came with it . However , It did need to be re-blued so I had that done after glass bead blasting it to a nice matte finish . The original finish was that high luster blue on all of the metal except the matte frame . I guess that was the style back then and looked ridiculous . It all matches now and is the apple of my eye .

I have used it to hunt whitetail using 66.0 grains of IMR 3031 and the Sierra 300 soft point @ 2200 fps with absolute excellent results . That bullet between 2000 – 2200 fps duplicates my Savage smokeless muzzleloader and sort of duplicates the heft of the arm also …

I have been wanting to try the Hornady 325 grain 458 FTX ( rated for 1600 – 2400 fps ) and the Hornady 250 grain 458 Mono-Flex bullet ( rated for 1100 – 2200 fps ) on targets and whitetail .

You can use a 458 WM for other things besides extremely large and dangerous game . Just match the bullet and velocity for the intended purpose . I have several thousand bullets for my 14 inch TC Contender in 45/70 , and so it just made sense to buy this rifle .

It is a tack driver as much as a 45 WM can be .

Mike,
A guy who had seen my rifles shoot approached me and bought a lot with the .460 included.
I had sellers remorse and tracked him down, but he had unfortunately lost his shirt and sold most of his rifle collection to Cabela's so it was gone. He did have the .458 I sold him so I got that back and it stays this time.
John