Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Speer 270gr 444 Marlin

Are these bullets rated for 444 marlin speeds or 44 mag?

To my chagrin I just learned that the hornady 265gr is discontinued, and I will need to find an alternative.

I load these in my .444 loaded with H4198 at approx. 2200 fps. I've killed quite a few deer and hogs between 40-200 yards with them. I've not recovered any bullets because they've all exited. Tracking jobs have been short.

They've been dang accurate as well. I bought 500 of these and got them loaded up. Figure I'm set for life with them.

Speer has data for them in the 444. https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...le/44_caliber_429_dia/444_Marlin_270.pdf

I've got some loaded in the 444 to about 2150. Haven't shot any of them yet.

No recovery makes me wonder if they are overblooming and flattening against the sides of the bullet shank.
Speer does list them under handgun bullets not rifle.
I may have to send them an email, but the last time I dd they simply said something about the "energy" not fps determining when the opened, which told me nothing about when that limit is exceeded by a significant margin. In terms of 444 marlin vs 44 mag, about 700fps

Dead critters and short tracking jobs make me think , " damn that bullet does a great job"

I've used these with satisfaction as well:

https://hawkbullets.com/bullet-selection.html#/

This site shows the 265 gr. FP Hornady in stock:

https://opticsandammo.com/product/hornady-44-cal-430-265gr-fp-100-mfg-4300/

Uh. . . . . . . . . . Did you notice who that ^ ^ ^ was ?

I did a quick search for bullets the op was interested in using. That site was the only one with those bullets in stock. I don't know "who" that is other than what it says.

If I'm missing something feel free to clue me in.

Check out the Hunting Optics Forum on 24 Hour Campfire and there is a thread 27 pages long about this topic.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...optics-and-ammo-lcc-in-houston-tx#UNREAD

Here. Read just a bit. Optics and Ammo LLC ain't a place to exchange money for goods. It's a fraud site that is getting sued left and right, but the owner seems to have been able to rig the court system enough to keep it open.

If Speer lists data for a bullet designed for hunting where they push that bullet past 2200 fps in lever guns, which link I posted for you, that bullet is designed for impact velocities far higher than can be achieved in the 44 Mag. If a guy says they exited from impact velocities exceeding 2000fps, they did fine. Would you consider it better performance if they didn't exit? The only way that is happening is if the bullet fragments significantly.

Gotcha, thanks.

They also list their 240gr bullet at those velocities, but I think that most would be concerned about how a bullet designed to open properly at handgun velocities would do so effectively at a velocity nearly 50% greater and also vice versa.
If I recall, handgun bullets at higher velocities was one of the original problems of the early 444.

Hornady's 35 cal FP designed for 35 Whelen and other similar velocities but will only expand at the highest velocities >2000fps achievable early on in the trajectory from a heavy loaded 35 Remington. Around or under that 2000fps it almost universally fails to expand. Yet load data exists for that bullet in the 35 Rem. Similarly the soft 200gr RN core-lokt bullet, designed for the 35 Remington, is likely over matched by the velocity achievable in a 35 Whelen. Therefore I do not consider the mere presence of load data as meaning a bullet is adequate.


But I think you might be misunderstanding my question. I was looking to use the 270gr in 444 marlin not 44 mag.

To answer the question "Would you consider it better performance if they didn't exit?" the answer is, maybe. If the bullet doesn't exit that means that all energy in the round was fully transferred to the target. But thinking about it, the 444 round has a lot of energy, which likely exceeds the energy requirement to pass through most animals under the 800-1000lbs mark. Put another way it is unlikely any bullet would be retained on deer sized animal, or most hogs. Even a 444 solid (or 45-70 for that matter) will create a substantial would channel and mortality just by nature of its caliber and energy, even if that energy is not completely transferred to the target (IE, by the bullet continuing to pass through the animal after good shot placement). But on that game it is still quite effective.
If it did not pass through, all that energy might result in substantial tissue damage, though that more relates to a velocity higher than that achievable in the 444.

Information I acquired from another site illustrated great penetration of the 270gr Speer, but 30+% loss in retained bullet weight, which tells me it is either fragmenting or sheering pieces of lead off as you mention. The author came to the same conclusion. 'Note, with many bullets the 44 Magnum outperforms the 444 for both penetration and wound cavity. Believe the 444 velocity exceeds the ability of the bullet to retain ideal terminal performance, generally giving up 20% more bullet weight...'
The Hornady 265gr retained nearly 100% of its weight in the same test. It is a very tough bullet, as mentioned, designed for 444 Marlin Velocities. If I was using it for large or dangerous game, it would be my preference over the Speer if it was still available. In fact in just about any scenario I think I would prefer it, since on lighter game anything is going to overpenetrate anyway.



I appreciate all the info because static tests and data don't tell the whole story and I want to pair it with real world data.

Out of curiosity, What critters are you shooting with the 444? I have shot the Speers and the group wonderfully. For deer and east coast bears even pigs I would be disappointed if they didn't exit.

Rest easy. A 270gr Speer Deep Curl soft point will handle any situation a .444 Marlin is on deck for with aplomb.

I know I'm responding to a post that's over a year old, but I just thought I'd throw this in there for people finding this in the future. I had a 444 Marlin back in the 80s. I used to handload the Hornady 265 to just about exactly 2200 fps. I have a bullet I retrieved from a typical mature New Brunswick whitetail doe, shot at about 25 yards, quartering toward me. I retrieved it under the hide on her left flank. It weighs 258 grains, the 7 grains lost to one or two of the jacketing petals that peeled back and broke off. I kept the bullet because it looked like something from an ad; an absolutely perfect mushroom, core 100% intact. I wish they still made that bullet; I have a 44 mag lever now and can only find 240gr in HP, which I don't want and would like to have a reliable supply of the 265s for heavier stuff. I bought the last 200 I could find when I heard they were discontinued.

I have a Marlin 444 and I too wish they still made the Hornady 265 SP.

When my last few are gone, I’ll try the Speer 270 bullets and hope for the best.

The Speers are excellent in my book. No big loss not being able to get the Hornadys as long as Speer has those.

I use the 270 grain Speer bullets in my inline muzzleloaders with harvester crush rib sabots. They work as advertised and are a very economical setup. I buy 50 bullets and 50 sabots at the same time and I am set for a long time.