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And I'll tell you again. I'm not comparing the two. Both are overpriced for what they give you.

Evidently you don't know everything that goes into
a Legend.

But your words clearly did compare the two.
no matter how much you now choose to deny it.

Some folks dont consider any Mauser worth your $13,500
so to them you are one of those 'suckers born every minute'
that you mentioned.

As for GMA actions, there are smiths that consider
them somewhat unfinished and charge like 2k to go
over and fine them up.

And I'll tell you again. I'm not comparing the two. Both are overpriced for what they give you.

Yes, I do. There is nothing that goes into it that justifies $14,000 for a Winchester production action and a McMillan fiberglass stock. NOTHING! People extol the balance as if balancing on the front action screw is magic. They worship the stock. Hell, you can buy one from D'Arcy himself (and McMillan too, I think) for what, $600? So Echols stones the raceways, installs a CNC machined mag box, tweaks the trigger, jewels the bolt, laps the lugs, surface grinds the action. That is magic? What else is there? Does he true the action? Fine. At most that costs a few hundred. Don't you get it that most (if not all) of what he does is fix poor factory tolerances in the Winchester that don't make the rifle one iota more functional, accurate or reliable? Is the Winchester steel something special? No. Are the tolerances great? No, they're terrible. You want a really good CRF action--something that truly is a work of art? You can get a Granite Mountain for $3500 and with integral double square bridges. Add a McMillan stock for $600 and Kreiger barrel for $400, thread chamber and crown for $300-$500 (with very nice blueing from Glenrock Blue) for a total price of around $5000. It doesn't take another nine grand to pillar bed the damn thing.

Back to my original point: good for Echols for figuirng out he can massively overcharge and get paid for it. Don't be angry at me for pointing out you're not a very savvy consumer if you own one. I would take a Borden custom rifle for $5100 any day over a Echols for $14,000. It's just pure idiocy to spend that kind of money on a Winchester actioned, McMillan stocked rifle because at the end of the day it's still a Winchester and a McMillan. For $14,000 I can have an impeccably made Borden with tight tolerances from the factory and unmatched accuracy and still have nine grand left over for first class optics and a guided mule deer hunt. It's a no-brainer.

You claim to know many smiths that build the
equal of a Legend for $3500 ..but would rather
pay 5k for a Remington clone.




its clear from your post that you still DONT
know everything that goes into a Legend.

Then why don't you tell me and when you're done I'll explain to you why it is a complete waste of money.

Legend may be a waste of money to you
just like a walnut engraved GMA is a
waste of money to others...but here
you are talking up its value for money
at $13,500.

That's an insane totally unjustifiable amount
for many folk.

Doesn’t matter anyhow since D’Arcy isn’t using Winchesters anymore for his guns since he has his own action to build rifles with.

It isn’t worth arguing over anyhow. Rifles are like trucks, we all like different ones for different reasons.

It most assuredly does matter because if he is using his own action, then the price should fall by more than two-thirds. Has it? The finest made CNC produced modern bolt action should not retail for more than $1500. D'Arcy charges about $11-12,000 to turn a sow's ear Winchester into his alleged silk purse reworked action. A new, CNC produced action of his own should reduce the cost of the action to no more than $1500 and therefore, the cost of a finished rifle to around $3-$4000. Has that happened? And you can bet it won't. Much easier to rip people off than tell them the truth, especially when they're so compliant!

From Echols's web site. Here is what he does to an action:

Legend Standard Sporter

1. The heart of our Legend Rifle begins with a Winchester Model 70 action made from either Chrome–Moly or Stainless Steel. Once inspected these actions are extensively refined and modified.

2. The receiver threads are re-machined to 1.032 X 16 TPI. The recoil lug seats, recoil lugs, receiver face and bolt face are re-machined and trued to remove any dimensional run out from the factory. The recoil lugs and lug seats are then lapped to remove any machine marks. A select grade chrome-moly or stainless steel barrel is then fit and chambered to the action. Our chambering procedures assure that maximum accuracy potential of the barreled action is realized. For the past 15 years the most popular chambering’s for the Standard Legend’s have been the following: The 7mm Remington Magnum, 300 Winchester Magnum and thirdly the 300 H&H Magnum. These three cartridges have proven time and time again their effectiveness around the world when use for the smaller Antelopes up to and including the Elands and larger Moose species. The international hunter is well served with these three cartridges. I keep an inventory of these barrels in stock at all times and have these barrels contoured into specific weights and lengths to further enhance the rifles final balance.

3. The underside of the action is re-machined to create a uniform bedding platform and to accept a proprietary Echols & Co. heat-treated, stainless steel magazine box and follower assembly. Our magazine assemblies are cartridge specific and allow our magnum magazine box to hold one additional belted magnum round, giving the shooter a total of five rounds instead of the usual four. This feature alone is almost unheard of in any currently available factory or custom produced firearm. All of our Legends will be fit with our Echols & Co. floor-plate and trigger bow assembly.

4. The receiver’s feed-ramp and guide rails are then modified to assure reliable cartridge feeding. Our rifles have an established reputation for flawless reliability.

5. The ejection port is lengthened to allow easy access to magazine to permit ease in loading. A spring steel extractor replaces the factory extractor and is properly fit to fully utilize the advantages of the claw extractor system.

6. The trigger, ejector, and bolt stop are re-pinned to remove all undesirable looseness or play. The sear engagement surfaces are machined to guarantee a consistent, crisp trigger pull set at 3 lbs. The safety wing and bolt lock engagement is refined to ensure smooth and positive manipulation of the safety. The factory sleeved bolt handle is then pinned and soldered to the main bolt body to prevent any separation between the bolt handle and bolt body permanently.

Very standard stuff, especially the truing operations. We know that the component cost for an Echols legend is around $1500 ($500 for the Winchester action, $400 for a Krieger barrel, $600 for the legend stock and maybe $50 bucks for the CNC machined mag box). Let's add on a few hundred for the small parts and consumables. That gives a total materials cost of around $1700.00. The current price for a Legend is $15000.00. That means Echols is charging you $13,300.00 to true the action, thread chamber and crown the barrel, repin the trigger and bolt stop and polish the feed ramp, blue everything and assemble and then bed the barreled action. A skilled machinist using the trueing jig invented by Greg Tannel can completely remachine the critical surfaces of an action (threads, lug abutments, bolt face and bolt lugs) in 2-3 hours. Let's add 3 more hours for surface grinding the entire action and then let's add 4 hours to thread, chamber and crown the barrel. Let's ad 2 more hours to repin the action and 3 hours for blueing. That is 15 hours to completely rebuild the action, chamber and rifle and blue it. So Echols is charging just south of $900 an hour for work other skilled smiths charge $100 an hour for and even less. No thanks!

A few posts back you recommended we should
pay $3,500 for a GMA. ..wouldn't that be ripping
customers off with your approval ?




Call him and ask if your numbers are true.

Where did I ever state or imply my approval was necessary? That's just silly. The Granite Mountain is made with tight tolerances built-in and is a work of art. Echols charges about $10k to try to turn a Winchester action into something comparable to a Granite Arms action (which can be had for $3500) and even then the Echols reworked action isn't comparable because the GA has double-square bridges. A Borden action can be had for what, $1200? A Defiance controlled round fee is what, $1500? You can get a flat gorgeous rifle from Bansners with CRF for less than $7000. I could go on and on but my point remains the same, $10,000-11,000 for a reworked Winchester action is beyond ridiculous. But again, kudos to Echols if he can convince people to open up their wallets for products that can be had for less than a third of what he charges. Kudos to him for figuring out people are suckers for a high price!

its far from perfect , and they dont always feed that
well out of the box when barreled up ..some smiths
charge like 2K to get them up to best spec. Feed
and finish wise.




Not everybody wants DSB, folks order Legends
coz they want D'Arcy's proprietary fixed scope
mount system.




So you are ok with a bare Rem clone at $1200
+ cost of magbox, bottom metal, trigger, etc.

yet think the more complex manufacture of
a complete custom grade Mauser action
should cost only $1500 ?...LoL..

No dummy. Granite Arms does it for $3500. Borden does CRF for less than $1500 and Bansners does CRF for lessn than a thou (if they are still producing the Brown 704 action)

So GMA is ripping-off customers big time ?

No, because their action is Mauser-style CRF. It's pricey, but even they are not charging Echols prices---for a schitty Winny!

Tarq. try coming to terms with your
contradictions and foolish denials.

You say one thing then back-flip and
then pretend it didn't happen.

What a hijacked thread! Lols

Older article. Please keep in mind Darcy Echols is considered one of the top riflesmiths in the world and has been building/selling his Legend close to 20yrs or more.

www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/worlds-greatest-hunting-rifle-darcy-echols-legend-review/83394

If you ever been to a hunting show as a vendor you will have an idea of who Darcy builds his rifle for. And there are guides who use them as well. And like many fine commodities an Echols Legend will hold its value.

Not all us can afford to own and drive a Ferrari to work but there are those that can.