Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

I brought The Spruce King to where we are house sitting this winter ( almost impossible to build inside while living in the same small house)
My thots on the need for a pad and the walnut butt cheeks. I'm thinking to inlet a block of wood to fit around the skeleton of the stock . Glue and pin it to the stock then fit a magnum pad to it.

The mold I queyed up in my cart is a 3 cavity aluminum with a troughed spur plate.
I'm thinking coww with 2% tin for the general run of things. Powder coated.

I probably won't be getting into black powder. There's only just so much will fit between my ears.
I am thinking something like 12 gr of Unique and backer rod.
10 gr of Unique and a 400 gr cast from my 480 Ruger SRH 4.5" gives me right around 1000 fps.
More research is needed.

Yo welcome Neighbor.

Bill Bagwell's first African Safari video continues, Chapter 3:

Chapter 4:

Final Chapter 5 is a short one:















End of snapshots from first Bill Bagwell video "Goex African Safari 2007."
There is another batch of snapshots from the video "Smoke Over Africa"
where the zebra gets flattened by 480 grains of lead alloy from a .45-70 Sharps with MV circa 1300 fps, unless someone objects.

Most excellent Sir Ron ;
Absolutely amazing what he does with his rifles !

Yep, and we can strive to imitate Bill's ballistics and accuracy with our scoped and smokeless .458 WM rifles heaving cast bullets.
To Bagwell is the goal.
Seems Bill can do it with either FN or RN cast bullets.
The round nose bullets probably flatten their noses pretty well when they hit. Ha ha.

Good stuff Sir Ron, many Thanks for the legwork Sir.

Sir Spruce,

Very nice, all that.
3 cavity aluminum should be very good at coming up to proper heat and staying warm between pours.
The troughed sprue plate OK for all three cavities being the same.
Of course, if you have a mould with a paper-patch-slick on one side requiring soft alloy
and an FN-GC requiring hard alloy on the other side,
then one must have the standard pour holes with no trough connection.
I have done that with a brass-block Accurate Molds mould for the .458 WM, more later on that.
One must also have two pots of alloys melted and two dippers.
I much prefer a dipper and avoid the bottom-pour melters.
Ross Seyfried tip is to have two different moulds going at the same time while pouring all with the same alloy.
I like running an aluminum or iron mould alongside my brass moulds.
Keeps me from overheating the brass block which may be more prone to warping than either aluminum or iron.

Elephant have been handily brained with a .475 Linebaugh revolver and a 400-gr bullet cut down from a 500-gr solid for 470 NE.
Cut off the base, like Bubba does to the 500-gr TSX to make a 400-gr T6.
Must have been a lead-filled bronze "solid" like a Punch or a Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid.
Maybe I can dig up that story again to clear up any faulty recollection on the Bubba-ed bullet that killed the trophy bull elephant
with ballistics much like the Bagwell BPCR.
Sir Jerry taught me the abbreviation for the Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid. It is TBSS not TBSH.

Sir Jerry,

Posting Bill Bagwell history is a pleasure, hero worship.
What a guy ! Renaissance man extraordinaire !
Played college football and got an English degree.
Used to write a regular knife feature in the old SOLDIER OF FORTUNE magazine.
Custom knife maker that gets $3000 for a Bowie.
Studied the BPCR for 25 years to learn how to do it.
In the next video he says the Shiloh Sharps 45-70 he is using has fired 27,000 rounds over 30 years.
It is the rifle that flattened the zebra at 161 yards with the 480-gr PH bullet at about 1300 fps MV.
Apparently Bill quit playing college football before he suffered any lasting brain damage.

I will be loading up SMOKE OVER AFRICA while listening to the TV coverage of President Trump's defense attorneys,
against the Dumb Ass Lying Democrats.
I have to pace myself so as not to overwork the mouse and get carpal tunnel or something.
The DALDs certainly deserve some carpal mouth.
No, that would be tarsal mouth for them, since they have had foot in mouth for the last 4 years.

I'll take and send a pic on this subject, it may give us something to study on over the coming 5 day ice age ; ]

You bet to all that Sir Ron, hope you someday have the pleasure of spending a weekend at his place loading, shooting and learning, the guy should/could have been a teacher/professor, very easy to listen to and learn from, great in person speaker.

LOL, dalds...........................their hero, grifter, usurper, not-present bidet!

not-present/not-president bidet, good one ... president reject bidet ...

The RN-PP became an FN-PP on impact with what ?

Sir Jerry may elaborate on this, including # 7 at the far right, a paper-patched FN slick of what caliber and weight ? :

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
quote:

Field results corroborate the ballistic testing. Ross Seyfried has gotten almost five feet of penetration with the .475 Linebaugh using a modified Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer solid weighing 385 grs at 1500 fps muzzle velocity on an Asian buffalo in Australia, in spite of breaking both the hip and a shoulder! (Ross Seyfried, ".475 Revolver Down Under", Guns & Ammo, Petersen Publishing, Inc., December, 1989, pp. 48 - 53, 96) In testing this bullet outpenetrated the lead alloy LBT bullets by 20 %. Using a similar modified solid weighing 400 grs, Otto Candies, Jr. completely penetrated the skull of an elephant on a frontal brain shot, the bullet coming to rest at a depth of 40 inches in the neck. (Jim Gosnell, "Legendary Linebaugh Big-Bores", High-Power Handguns, Petersen Publishing, Inc., 1995, pp. 34 - 39) J. D. Jones, noted handgun hunter and entrepreneur (S.S.K. Industries), reports getting "over seven feet" of penetration with 500 gr. solids from a 45-70 handcannon (SSK product literature).

Thanks for posting the pic Sir Ron, your post about the round nosed bullets getting flat is what brought this to mind, the recovered bullet is from a Mos mould that Bill gave me, it's a copy of the 458 cal paper patch bullets the Sharps Rifle Factory loaded and sent out to the Buffalo Hunters, I cast it soft at 30 to 1 to fire in an original '74 Sharps in 45-110, the charge is 100 grains of 1F, velocity from the old rifle is 1269 fps, slap in the middle of the wheelhouse.

I fired this bullet into 4 five gallon water buckets lengthways, recovered the bullet in the 4th bucket, with their tough plastic snap on lids and tough bottoms, it went through a pretty good test, what we see with this recovered bullet is it's shape, look closely at the solids that are world renowned for penetration DEEP and STRAIGHT, that old round nose paper patch is now parallel sided with a tapering nose precisely to a flat point, just like the solids that 'dont' change their shapes.

The old Buffalo Hunters knew what worked, but they may not have known why, it took modern man with countless thousands of man hours, safaris, untold amounts of money, field reports, bullets designs, cnc machines, lathes, lead alloys, presses, etc, etc to finally come up with the best solids we've ever had, when in retrospect, the Buffalo Hunters were doing that 150 years ago.

I have no recovered 40 or 458 cal bullets from game, only have two from my 50-90 hunting rifle, a 715gr paper patch that blew through a great Sable bull at 99 yards, then hit a tree behind the bull, the other is a 750gr flat nosed grease groove bullet fired into a bedded Eland bull at 60 yards, bullet entered right ham, skinners handed me the bullet from the bulls left shoulder, 8-9 feet of penetration, those bullets left the rifle at 1365-1400 fps and were cast with my alloy using three pounds of Lyman #2 with 7 lbs pure lead, it's about like 12 to 1 lead tin alloy.

Oops, forgot, bullet #7 is from my Tilton mould, it's 458 cal flat nose paper patch, 516 grains at 12 to 1 alloy, it's the bullet I use for hunting and target practice in my Shiloh 45-70 and 45-110 hunting rifles, it's a hell of a take no prisoners hunting bullet, I have no recoveries with that one.

Sir Jerry,
Also for you: "Field results corroborate the ballistic testing."
Thanks for the info.
Note that Ross Seyfried cut off the base of a 500-gr TBSS to make a 385-gr .475 Linebaugh bullet.
Otto Candies, Jr. did similar to make a 400-grain .475 Linebaugh bullet and took a big bull elephant with it.