|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,503
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,503 |
One of my late uncles was a young marine that arrived in the Pacific theater in the latter stages of WW2. He would have been part of the invasion of Japan if that had occurred. When the Japanese surrendered there were a hell of a lot of young American G.I.'s who just had their lives spared and were aware of that fact.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,478
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,478 |
I have the book Unbroken in the camper that I read when we take the quads out. Zamperini when through a special level of hell at the hands of the Japanese. Second guessing the decision to drop may be human nature but rewriting history is bs. I had a great uncle that fought at Tarawa. He struggled with civility in restaurants when he saw a person of Japanese descent. Made dinner an event. Very tough old man.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,918 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,918 Likes: 1 |
"Countddown 1945" by Chris Wallace gives some great behind the scenes insight into the development and decision to drop the bomb. There were actually many alternatives considered, including a demonstration blast for the Japanese to witness. That plan was ultimately rejected out of fear that is the demonstration failed to detonate, it might give the Japanese new resolve to fight harder. The other issue that hastened the rush to bring the Pacific war to an end was the Russians scooping up and realigning Europe after the defeat of Germany.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,405
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,405 |
On Jan 17, 1945 Chief of Staff Marshall and Admiral King sent a letter to the House Military Affairs Committe that 900,000 inductions were required by June 30th. JCS924 Operations Against Japan Subsequent to Formosa warned taking the Home Islands might cost us a half a million American lives and many times that number wounded. 1,531,000 Purple Hearts were produced for the war effort. In 2000, there remained 120,000 Purple Heart medals in stock. Read "Hell to Pay" by D. M. Giangreco.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1 |
‘The Making of the Atomic Bomb’ by Richard Rhodes is a fantastic book about this unique and very interesting history.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,928 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,928 Likes: 2 |
My late father was on Okinawa, would most likely have been sent to Japan.
My Filipino Ex MiL, with whom I converse regularly, witnessed the Bataan Death March as a little girl, she spent the war years hiding out while her father fought with the guerillas. My own mom still remembers the sound Luftwaffe bombers made.
It really wasn’t so long ago.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,368 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,368 Likes: 3 |
My paternal grandfather had 7 siblings. All 8 of them were Air Force. 4 were pilots. 2 of the pilots died in combat. One Korea and 1 Vietnam. One great uncle( the oldest) was a nuclear engineer. He drafted plans for the nuclear bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki and was part of the crew that delivered the plans to the president and congress to show them progress/explain it. At his funeral( I was 14 so 20 years ago) were generals and pentagon employees who had worked with him. They spoke highly of him during speeches they gave at his funeral
his cancer was determined to have been caused by heavy metals and radiation( he was old as heck then so who knows what really killed him as he beat cancer 3 times). His wife died of same type cancer 20 years earlier. He lost a son 3 months after birth due to birth defects and leukemia they said were caused by his heavy metal exposures at oak ridge
His two daughters and one grandchild also died from cancer of same type in there mid life determined to be due to his service at oak ridge per the oncologist and researchers.
Talk about sacrifice. His lineage laid a heavy toll Damn, they sure did a heavy price. I have a uncle who retired from Y-12 I think it was called. Had to retire because he went blind.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,743 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,743 Likes: 2 |
My uncle was a P.O.W. of the Japanese....after reading and hearing about the treatment the POWs received I haven't felt a twinge of compassion for those who died under Fat Man and Little Boy. They started it, we finished it. Too, bad we didnt drop them and finish it sooner.
Last edited by jaguartx; 02/18/21.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 19,495
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 19,495 |
A physicist I worked with worked at Los Alamos. All he would say about it was that he worked on the optimal design of the materials. He's gone now and is remembered as a fine man.
Retired cat herder.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,229
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,229 |
I don't want a pickle, I just wanna ride my motorcycle
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Harold Agnew carrying the plutonium core of the Nagasaki Fat Man bomb, 1945. Isn't that thing kinda like, dangerous? He's holding it like a six pack of Banquet Beer.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,336
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,336 |
The Nagasaki bomb used a mass of Plutonium of about 6.5 Kg. However, what actually was converted from Mass to Energy was somewhat less than 1 Gram. The rest was just detritus.
Think of that: a mass of 1/3 of a penny did all that.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,743 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,743 Likes: 2 |
My uncle was a P.O.W. of the Japanese....after reading and hearing about the treatment the POWs received I haven't felt a twinge of compassion for those who died under Fat Man and Little Boy. The two atom bombs did nothing more than we had been doing every night to Japan for many weeks. Curtiss LeMay was systematically leveling the nation of Japan, one city at a time. The incendiary bombing campaign of city after city was killing as many Japanese every night as the atom bombs did. The only difference was that it only took one plane and one bomb to do the job. Many, many things contributed to the Japanese surrender. The knowledge that Russia was almost knocking on their back door encouraged many of the Japanese to wish to surrender to the USA before the Russians got there. So, were the atom bombs inhumane? No, no more so than any other part of the bombing campaigns over Japan and Germany. Were the two atom bombs actually necessary? Yes, I believe they were. They were the straw that broke the camel's back among the hard line Japanese generals who wanted to fight to the last child standing and the last grain of rice. Wrong. Japans top brass didnt have to worry about being taken out by conventional bombing.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1 |
The Nagasaki bomb used a mass of Plutonium of about 6.5 Kg. However, what actually was converted from Mass to Energy was somewhat less than 1 Gram. The rest was just detritus.
Think of that: a mass of 1/3 of a penny did all that. And ‘that’ is simply astounding...! That ‘missing’ mass which is converted to energy during fission equals something real damn big when it’s multiplied by the speed of light squared...! Thank You for pointing that out shaman.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,304 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,304 Likes: 2 |
My uncle was a P.O.W. of the Japanese....after reading and hearing about the treatment the POWs received I haven't felt a twinge of compassion for those who died under Fat Man and Little Boy. The two atom bombs did nothing more than we had been doing every night to Japan for many weeks. Curtiss LeMay was systematically leveling the nation of Japan, one city at a time. The incendiary bombing campaign of city after city was killing as many Japanese every night as the atom bombs did. The only difference was that it only took one plane and one bomb to do the job. Many, many things contributed to the Japanese surrender. The knowledge that Russia was almost knocking on their back door encouraged many of the Japanese to wish to surrender to the USA before the Russians got there. So, were the atom bombs inhumane? No, no more so than any other part of the bombing campaigns over Japan and Germany. Were the two atom bombs actually necessary? Yes, I believe they were. They were the straw that broke the camel's back among the hard line Japanese generals who wanted to fight to the last child standing and the last grain of rice. I will take issue only with a little part of this, the only difference wasn't that it took only one plane to drop them, the big difference is they helped the war come to a more speedy end. Yeah, they were no better or worse than the fire bombings,but, as mentioned, I have zero compassion for the japanese people.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,710 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,710 Likes: 3 |
My uncle was a P.O.W. of the Japanese....after reading and hearing about the treatment the POWs received I haven't felt a twinge of compassion for those who died under Fat Man and Little Boy. Nope. None.
The deer hunter does not notice the mountains
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve" - Isoroku Yamamoto
There sure are a lot of America haters that want to live here...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,945 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,945 Likes: 7 |
The Nagasaki bomb used a mass of Plutonium of about 6.5 Kg. However, what actually was converted from Mass to Energy was somewhat less than 1 Gram. The rest was just detritus.
Think of that: a mass of 1/3 of a penny did all that. You have more knowledge than I. Do you know what happens to that 6.5 kilos of Plutonium? As I understand, the most poisonous element known to man. Just part of the radioactive dust cloud?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,416
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,416 |
My Dad used to shoot trap with Paul Tibbets pilot of the Enola Gay when I was a kid. I didn’t realize the significance of who he was until I was older. The B29 “Bocks Car”, that dropped the Nagasaki bomb is at the Air Force museum in Dayton Ohio.
Ron
Ron The Enola Gay is hanging in the Air and Space Museum near Dulles airport. The most awesome museum I have ever been in. Jerry
Minnesota; Land of 10,000 Taxes
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 324 Likes: 1
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 324 Likes: 1 |
Read “Hell To Pay” by D.M. Giangreco. Talks all about the decisions leading up to the dropping the bombs. Some eye opening take aways:
West coast hospitals were told to be ready to received 70,000 to 110,000 causalities a month from the Japanese home island invasion. England wanted to wait a a year or more to “train” for the invasion. US told England, they would be under US command using US equipment. Australia who had been fighting Japan did not want to be under British command for obvious reasons. For Operation Cornet and Olympic the Japanese had over 700,000 well armed and well defended soldiers who had 7 months to get ready for the first home island invasion. Imagine if the Germans had 7 months to get ready and be ready on the Normandy beaches. LeMay wanted to use the nukes tactically, Truman agreed to drop them on Japanese cities. Truman authorized 700,000 Purple Heart medals that are still being used today. I’m not sure of the exact year but I believe they said the entire US male birth population of 1926??ish would have been wiped out if the home island invasions had gone ahead,
My biggest take away from this book was that after the Japanese took almost two days to respond after the second bomb was dropped, Truman authorized I believe 9 more bombs to get readies and they would have been ready in November 1945.
You never see photos of American and British troops going into Berlin. Not because they couldn’t get there before the Russians but because they were being held back and transfers of Engineers were already starting to move to the Pacific. The Japanese were betting they could hold out for a peace deal and that we wouldn’t have the stomach for total take no prisoners warfare. They were probable correct. They also had a bunch of fuel, weapons, manpower, and aircraft in reserve.
No one thought the US would be up for another 4 to 5 years of war in Japan after the Germans surrendered.
It’s a long read and very detailed but give it to any nuke nay sayer and it will change their outlook. It did for my lib sister who was an anti nuke believer,. After the finishing the book, she got it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,193 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,193 Likes: 1 |
Cowdoc—I know it was Independance, MO now—I didn’t then Hard to believe a former president would mow his own lawn—with a push mower no less.[align:center][/align]
Last edited by kkahmann; 02/18/21.
|
|
|
|
375 members (17CalFan, 16gage, 16penny, 12savage, 1936M71, 10gaugeman, 47 invisible),
2,069
guests, and
1,088
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,859
Posts18,497,145
Members73,979
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|