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257 R 100 grain E-Tip help #15824638 02/22/21
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Yaddio Offline OP
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I've been working on my wife's 257 Roberts now for a few years. I gave up on it a few times and now I'm back to trying to make it a shooter. I gave up on the rifle's barrel after trying bullets, powder, new stock, bedding etc. I recently had Randy Selby re-barrel it with a 1:9 Douglas SS barrel. It's a Ruger M77 action with a newly bedded Boyd's stock. Hopefully the old barrel will make a good tomato stake.
So, I saw some Nosler E-tips pop up on Midway and now have 150 new bullets to load up. I want to do this right from the start, so I'm curious to know if there's any experience out there I can learn from with this combo. Seating depth, powder, etc. I'm in California, so lead bullets are out of the equation.
The E-tips and the 257R have their quirks and combined, there's even more quirkiness.
!) +P vs non-+P load data available is a bit lacking and frustrating. The new Nosler manual says it's +P, but the load data looks the same as the old manual and hardly looks +P to me..
2) E-tip loading data from Nosler suggests beginning at starting loads and not surpassing mid-loads. Kind of screwy when combined with a sticky bullet and what seems to me underloaded load data from Nosler. We'd be well served to have E-tips with data developed from E-tips and not lead bullets.

I have Rem brass and Win +P brass. The Win brass was much harder to resize for some reason. Much harder on the upstroke even though the necks measure almost exactly the same. The Rem brass was smooth resizing. The Rem brass is more concentric than the Win brass and both brass are more concentric after fired once and resized.
I have all the recommended powders in stock, (which I found after scouring just about every website and forum on the internet about the 257R).

So any help is appreciated.


Last edited by Yaddio; 02/22/21.
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Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15824999 02/22/21
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Here is JB's data from "Loads that work"

.257 Roberts:Like the 6mm Remington (the same case necked down), the .257 Roberts does fine with one powder. The traditional choice is IMR-4350, but Hodgdon’sH-4350 works equally well – and better in cold weather. Around 46grains works excellently with 100-grain bullets with velocity about3,000 fps, plenty for most deer hunting. For larger deer I’ve mostly used the 115-grain Nosler Partitionand 43.0 grains of H-4350. Velocities run right on the heels of the100-grain load noted above, and the bullet is more reliable on really big deer

I would follow Barnes recommendation on seating depth or Bergers. Most monos like some jump. I load them up to within a grain or grain and a half of loads for max loads for conventional lead bullets. I would try annealing the cases especially the Winchesters. The +p cases may have lower capacity so check this. I haven't found the Roberts to be finicky at all to load for. If you want really good cases neck down some RWS 7x57 mm brass, check for thick necks.

Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15825120 02/22/21
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sidepass Offline
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Hammer Hunters and Hybrid 100 V I use non +p brass in my modern Kimber and Rem 700. Not a gun writer here. Oh yes H4350 here too.

Last edited by sidepass; 02/22/21.

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Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15825130 02/22/21
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Have found E-Tips to shoot best when seated up to .1 inch deeper than lead-cored bullets, including Ballistic Tips.

Any of the 4350s (including Accurate's) will generally work with 100-grain bullets in the .257 Roberts, along with IMR4451, which is very similar in burn-rate. So will a bunch of other powders with a burn-rate on either side of the general 4350 will work as well. Have gotten excellent result, for example, with Ramshot Big Game and Hunter.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15825500 02/22/21
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Years back when I got a gorgeous custom pre 64 M70, I started with the E-tip. Four hundred of them through the barrel and I could never get better than 1.5"-2". The 100 gr TTSX and a new, unveiled bullet is not much better. It wasn't until I started shooting the 115 BT and 120 PT that the accuracy came in. Looking at the Berger Twist Rate Stability Calulator, it became apparent why the lighter, mono-metal bullets shot so poorly. A 1:10" twist is not optimal for the longer bullets.

Alan

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Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15826327 02/23/21
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Yaddio Offline OP
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All good info. Due to the claimed "stickiness" of the E-tip and the lack of +P H4350 data for this combo I'll start around 43 grains of H4350 and work up .5 grains at a time to 46 grains and see what the chronograph says while checking for any pressure signs. I'm looking for ~ 3000 fps or a little more. 22" barrel. I'm hoping to high heaven I don't have to go thru 400 bullets to hit pay dirt. I've made the bullet companies quite wealthy while trying to get the stock barrel to shoot. I did order the barrel with a 1:9 twist with monometal bullets in mind.

Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: GSSP] #15826355 02/23/21
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Originally Posted by GSSP
Years back when I got a gorgeous custom pre 64 M70, I started with the E-tip. Four hundred of them through the barrel and I could never get better than 1.5"-2". The 100 gr TTSX and a new, unveiled bullet is not much better. It wasn't until I started shooting the 115 BT and 120 PT that the accuracy came in. Looking at the Berger Twist Rate Stability Calulator, it became apparent why the lighter, mono-metal bullets shot so poorly. A 1:10" twist is not optimal for the longer bullets.

Alan


That would cure explain it--if it was correct. But it's not.

One flaw in the Berger stability program is that it does not account for plastic tips. A while after the late Don Miller (the guy who developed the twist-rate formula the Berger program is based on) originally developed his formula, he discovered that because plastic tips don't weigh nearly as much as equal-length hollow-points or soft-points, they don't have nearly as much effect on bullet stability. Thus, measuring overall length of plastic tipped bullets and using the Berger formula results in incorrect predictions.

The JBM stability programs (www.jbmballistics.com) does include an input for the length of plastic tips. Perhaps not so oddly, Nosler and Barnes both list the overall length of the 100-grain E-Tip and TTSX as 1.195 inch. I just measured the length of the plastic tip on both bullets, which came out to around .15 inch. Running them through the JBM program gave a stability factor of close to 1.5 under standard conditions (59 degrees F. at sea level) which is quite stable. They've even more stable at higher elevations.

I also know that both bullets can shoot very well in 1-10 twist barrels because of using them in various .257 Roberts, .25-06 and .257 Weatherby rifles with 1-10 twists over the years. By "very well" I mean 3-shot groups at 100 yards of half an inch or even less.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15826428 02/23/21
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Good info MD, thanks. FWIW, I ordered the 1:9 twist barrel in part because there were 2 boxes of 115 TSX bullets on the LGS shelf for at least 2 years. Maybe longer. After ordering the barrel I confidently went back to the store to buy them and they were gone. Such is life during a pandemic.


Last edited by Yaddio; 02/23/21.
Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15826484 02/23/21
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as has been posted already Hammer Bullets might be your best choice in your state , my 257 Robert likes Hammer Bullets ,i also like Reloader 17 powder best in my 257 Roberts. good luck,Pete53


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Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15826529 02/23/21
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Thanks Pete, I'll look into it. I have RL17 too.

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Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15826538 02/23/21
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Originally Posted by Yaddio
Thanks Pete, I'll look into it. I have RL17 too.


your welcome, Hammer Bullets are expensive but these bullets shoot great and really look nice too.Pete53


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Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15826577 02/23/21
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RL 19 has been what I have used for 10+ years in my 257R. Has been great with 100-117grn projectiles.

Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15826608 02/23/21
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WAM Offline
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You might try 100 gr TTSX over 47.0 grains of RS Hunter with Fed 210m primers. My old Ruger tanger 1:10 puts them into bughole groups at 100 yards tight enough that I never tried to measure them. Never bothered with E-tips. Happy Trails


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Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: pete53] #15826611 02/23/21
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Yaddio Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pete53
Originally Posted by Yaddio
Thanks Pete, I'll look into it. I have RL17 too.


your welcome, Hammer Bullets are expensive but these bullets shoot great and really look nice too.Pete53


I just looked them up on their website. I thought I knew a little about every bullet on the planet, but have never looked these up until now. Shed the petals on impact? Interesting concept. It might be worth looking into for my 338-06 as well.

Thanks davet, I have RL19 as well and if H4350 doesn't pan out I'll give that a try.

Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15826627 02/23/21
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Yaddio,

The original Barnes X's tended to shed their petals on impact, but when they didn't, and were recovered, many hunters liked to brag on the 100% weight retention. Randy Brooks thought losing the petals would damage more tissue, but after hearing the 100% bragging for a while decided to change the heat-treatment so X's would tend to retain their petals more often--due to the old business suggestion that the customer is always right.

Randy told me this himself during a mule deer hunt, not long after the TSX was introduced.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Mule Deer] #15826672 02/23/21
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Yaddio Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Yaddio,

The original Barnes X's tended to shed their petals on impact, but when they didn't, and were recovered, many hunters liked to brag on the 100% weight retention. Randy Brooks thought losing the petals would damage more tissue, but after hearing the 100% bragging for a while decided to change the heat-treatment so X's would tend to retain their petals more often--due to the old business suggestion that the customer is always right.

Randy told me this himself during a mule deer hunt, not long after the TSX was introduced.


Very interesting.

I deer hunt an area of Alaska known to be crawling with brown bear. I use a 300 Wby with 180 TSX's or more often a 338-06 with a 225 AB. I'm alway looking for a bullet that will not blow up deer meat, but will take down a brown bear if I'm put in a difficult situation. Maybe Hammer bullets? I'm jacking my own thread, but this could be another interesting topic.

Last edited by Yaddio; 02/23/21.
Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: WAM] #15826690 02/23/21
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Yaddio Offline OP
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Originally Posted by WAM
You might try 100 gr TTSX over 47.0 grains of RS Hunter with Fed 210m primers. My old Ruger tanger 1:10 puts them into bughole groups at 100 yards tight enough that I never tried to measure them. Never bothered with E-tips. Happy Trails


Thanks, I've got a considerable amount of powder, but Hunter isn't one of them anymore. I'd grab some though if it ever popped up on a store shelf.

Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: pete53] #15826870 02/23/21
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Yaddio Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pete53
as has been posted already Hammer Bullets might be your best choice in your state , my 257 Robert likes Hammer Bullets ,i also like Reloader 17 powder best in my 257 Roberts. good luck,Pete53


Pete53, which of the Hammer bullets did you settle on in 257R?

Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Yaddio] #15826893 02/23/21
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The best loads I've shot in my 257 used IMR4350. However, RE 15 also shot good groups with 87 and 85 grain bullets (Hornady and CT's). I didn't chronograph those loads.


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Re: 257 R 100 grain E-Tip help [Re: Bugger] #15826986 02/23/21
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Originally Posted by Bugger
The best loads I've shot in my 257 used IMR4350. However, RE 15 also shot good groups with 87 and 85 grain bullets (Hornady and CT's). I didn't chronograph those loads.


Thanks Bugger. I 4350 is on the list of powders to try if H 4350 and RL 19 don't pan out. Hybrid too if I need to.

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