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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hopefully they just cut the bison, sheep, goat and moose to 10% and leave the rest the same. It's all about you dude, Never mind that many other NR have been applying for Sheep or such for almost 2 decades, 19 years for sheep for me. Reduction to 10% will end most peoples chance of ever drawing any of those tags.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,329 |
Idaho's been doing this for years. In all hunts with quotas or draws, non-res applicants can only get 10% of the tags. UP to ten percent of the tags. Oftentimes it’s less than that. In draw hunts, they just start drawing at random. When or if 10% of the total tags are drawn by non-res, the rest are skipped if their name comes up. In hunts with very few tags and lots of applicants, it's very possible that no non-res will be drawn before all the tags are gone.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,595
Campfire Outfitter
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I don’t see any way this could result in more money for WY. Sure, there’s fee increases but the much more expensive tags & fees for non residents, being sold in much lesser volume has to reduce total income without even factoring the likely more significant gas, lodging, food, etc.
I agree. Doing this sounds budget neutral for WG&F but damaging to the communities and businesses that provide goods and services to the nonresident hunters. I also think it is unfair to the people who have been buying preference points for years to lower their odds by a large margin and jack the rates significantly at the same time. If this passes, they should get a one-time chance for a refund. I suspect that there will be a lot of pushback by communities and businesses that depend on nonresident dollars. With the ongoing war against mineral extraction industries and the current budget shortfall, every little bit of additional economic contraction is going to hurt.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,472
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,472 |
Received this email from a guide that was forwarded: Dear Sportsman, Wyoming Senator Larry Hicks has filed Senate File 103, a 90/10 license allocation and fee increase bill that would be devastating to your ability to draw a Wyoming big game hunting license in the future. We need your help to contact members of the Senate Travel, Recreation and Wildlife Committee as soon as possible to share your opposition to the bill and how it would impact your ability to hunt in Wyoming. The bill will be heard by the committee at 8 a.m. on Thursday, March 4, 2021. Please keep your messages focused and specific to how this appalling bill will hurt your future plans to hunt in Wyoming. Please let the senators know that you have made a financial investment in preference points and license fees and remind the Senators of the positive economic impact nonresident hunters, like yourself, brings to Wyoming. Thank you for taking the time to reach out to these Wyoming Legislators it is critical they hear from you and how a 50 percent reduction in licenses would affect your ability to hunt and Wyoming’s economy. The Senators are listed below: Chairwoman Affie Ellis (Cheyenne) Affie.Ellis  wyoleg.gov Senator Mike Gierau (Jackson) Mike.Gierau wyoleg.gov Senator Tim Salazar (Dubois) Tim.Salazar wyoleg.gov Senator Bill Landen (Casper) Bill.Landen wyoleg.gov Senator Wendy Schuler (Evantson) Wendy.Schuler wyoleg.gov Sincerely, Sy Gilliland, President Wyoming Outfitters & Guides Association PO Box 2650 Casper, WY 82602 wyoga wyoga.org wyoga.org 307.265.2376
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260 |
A gift the us residents if it passes.
Compensation for putting up with this God Awful wind!
And BTW I could care less for any outfitters.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,221
Campfire Regular
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I don’t see any way this could result in more money for WY. Sure, there’s fee increases but the much more expensive tags & fees for non residents, being sold in much lesser volume has to reduce total income Wyoming makes a tremendous amount of revenue off that interest. Prices for the licenses are what ever the market will bear for nonresidents. If I was a resident I'd probably resent the nonresident intrusion in the hunting season as an average person trying to make a living there. Of course as someone making a living off the resource would have the opposite attitude. Pretty sh*less to take people's money for points then change the rules though. In 1995 I drew a general season statewide elk tag first time I tried, it was $355 residents paid $28 over the counter. Hunted in units around Atlantic City on the 5th day I shot a spike bull and was. happy to get him. Saw a lot of moose. So in 1996 I put in for a nonresident moose tag for that area 4 tags availible and at drawing time 5 applicants and no I didn't draw was priced at $1000 the next year the tag tag went up to $1700, they factored me out on the spot. Scarce resources are allways expensive and will cost even more as demand increases. Maybe wyoming game and fish wants less interest money and applicants in exchange for higher tag price I don t know. Mb It's a lottery. The outcome is the same whether you apply on the first day of the app period or the last. If you apply on the first day, sure, they hold your money for over 6 months. If you apply the last day, you either draw or see a refund in a few weeks.
My heart's in the mountains, my heart is not here.
My heart's in the mountains, chasing the deer.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,173
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,173 |
Hopefully they just cut the bison, sheep, goat and moose to 10% and leave the rest the same. It's all about you dude, Never mind that many other NR have been applying for Sheep or such for almost 2 decades, 19 years for sheep for me. Reduction to 10% will end most peoples chance of ever drawing any of those tags. Yep or all about you too, fuuck everyone else while we’re at it. 👍
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,141
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,141 |
Damn I have 10/ea pronghorn, deer, and elk points. I really wish I had time to burn my pronghorn points this year.
This is REALLY gonna shaft those of us with lots of points. 9
I can understand residents wanting a better slice but to me their point system is already an unsustainable scam. At least in Idaho limited tags are allocated randomly with no point system. I had 9 points for elk to, I was thinking about donating them to the wounded warriors, Wyoming won’t let me do that. You have to get the license then you can donate it.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,173
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,173 |
I’m genuinely curious as to how high exactly prices would have to go before they saw a decrease in applications. Because every increase that’s ever been implemented has had the opposite affect. Me too, I’m sure we’re gonna find out.
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,141
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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By the way WG&F has always stated that PP are not a guarantee at a license, just increases your odds to draw one.
For many years those PP were pretty cheap too,
If you use Sy's letter to send an email be sure and ask him if he supports removing the NR wilderness hunting law. I know that answer but you all need to hear it. He is just looking out for himself and his outfitting business, he could care less about DIY hunters.
Most residents just want more LQ licenses for our draw, especially sheep and moose. The fee increase is not generally supported by resident hunters, not at levels they are proposing.
One of the biggest issues or residents is how they roll every license not awarded in resident draw to NR draw for deer and pronghorn. We want those licenses put in a leftover draw for all or another resident draw before the NR draw. We would love some extra tags for deer and pronghorn before NR get to draw them.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,472
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 12,472 |
I don't think an increase in fees is going to have a real effect on the number of tags applied for. Sure, some NR's might drop out but somebody will take his place.
Yep, outfitters are looking out for number one. When a real estate agent tries to sell you the perfect home, they don't give a rat's ass if it's perfect for you and your family like they want you to believe. They want that commission to line their own pockets.
One thing that stands out to me is the amount of Federal land that is hunted on. We all own a piece of that, no? 90/10 split seems a little harsh just because NR's don't live next door to it.
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,141
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Magnum Bob the WG&F does not collect interest on your application fees. They can not by statute.
Yes, but the state "owns "the wildlife on said federal lands. Feel free to come out and hike or camp for free.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,656
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
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One of the biggest issues or residents is how they roll every license not awarded in resident draw to NR draw for deer and pronghorn. We want those licenses put in a leftover draw for all or another resident draw before the NR draw. We would love some extra tags for deer and pronghorn before NR get to draw them.
This is the reason for the proposed legislative change. ^^^ Many WY residents (myself included) watch deer, antelope, elk and even moose out our windows on a regular basis (I don't see a lot of sheep or goats, but some do). Then we watch unethical hunters (I can name the states, but unethical hunters come from ALL states, even WY), run there SxS and ATV across the landscape, cut thru fences that are in their way, and empty 14 rounds into a running herd. The TV show says that I can kill and elk with a 6.7mm whizbang at 14593 yards, so there they are, shoot at them!!! Then went I ask a landowner that I have known for 20 years if I can hunt on his property - he says no because hunters tear up his pasture and push elk thru his fence, and it is too expensive to repair. WY lives in a boom or bust economy. Either the Energy industry or the Tourism industry, even the Ag industry has it's cycles. Those that choose to live here and make a living here known this and deal with it. Why not give the resident better odds at one of the joys of living here?
Some is Good---More is Better----Too Much is Just Right
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,141
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Failed in committee.
Back to the drawing board.
Cowboybart, I believe the commission has heard this argument and will listen to residents about that roll over into the NR draw. They get to make that decision, not the legislature. Contact your commissioners about it.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 12,472 |
One of the biggest issues or residents is how they roll every license not awarded in resident draw to NR draw for deer and pronghorn. We want those licenses put in a leftover draw for all or another resident draw before the NR draw. We would love some extra tags for deer and pronghorn before NR get to draw them.
This is the reason for the proposed legislative change. ^^^ Many WY residents (myself included) watch deer, antelope, elk and even moose out our windows on a regular basis (I don't see a lot of sheep or goats, but some do). Then we watch unethical hunters (I can name the states, but unethical hunters come from ALL states, even WY), run there SxS and ATV across the landscape, cut thru fences that are in their way, and empty 14 rounds into a running herd. The TV show says that I can kill and elk with a 6.7mm whizbang at 14593 yards, so there they are, shoot at them!!! Then went I ask a landowner that I have known for 20 years if I can hunt on his property - he says no because hunters tear up his pasture and push elk thru his fence, and it is too expensive to repair. WY lives in a boom or bust economy. Either the Energy industry or the Tourism industry, even the Ag industry has it's cycles. Those that choose to live here and make a living here known this and deal with it. Why not give the resident better odds at one of the joys of living here?I think residents should get a preference. 90/10 is a little extreme.
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
Hunting in the west has greatly changed in the last few decades. I dont think 10% is out of line at all. In my home state I dont think NR should have a a crack at limited entry tags like sheep,moose, goat, etc at all.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260 |
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,173
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,173 |
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
Western hunting is all about catering to the money folks. ... used to be a poor person pastime to feed their families. Now its turned into a billion dollar empire with high tech gizmos, tv shows, and designer camo.
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Posts: 2,062
Campfire Regular
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,062 |
Western hunting is all about catering to the money folks. ... used to be a poor person pastime to feed their families. Now its turned into a billion dollar empire with high tech gizmos, tv shows, and designer camo. Yes, but that's supply and demand. If more people apply than licenses, then there's to much demand, so raise the price, or at least the market can handle an increase. Outfitters as well, the cost of a hunt is higher than years ago (used to be easy to find a good sub-$5k elk hunt 10 years ago). Yet demand still increases. Does this cut out some people? Yup, or at the very minimum it limits them or makes them make hard choices. But it's free market. I've golfed longer than I"ve western hunted. Golf went through the same thing. CROWDS, green fees went up and up and up, crowds eventually said "ya know, this isn't worth the money for an all day round of golf" and crowds went down, green fees went down. Now they are coming back up, all supply and demand.
Last edited by Bob_H_in_NH; 03/04/21.
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