I am happy for residents and envy you who live in Wyoming, but this sucks for non residents.

To those in the know, how likely will this pass? It will really hurt those who have been sitting on points for that special hunt.

Sorry if this has already been posted.

ALERT: New Wyoming bill introduced that impacts nonresident hunters | goHUNT
https://www.gohunt.com/read/news/wyoming-bill-introduced-impacts-nonresident-hunters#gs.ujd2io

Without digging into the details of Pros/Cons, but, if I was as a resident - I’d probably be happy if it passed.

As a NR that hunts Wyoming, I would prefer a different percentage of 70-30 Res to NR.

🦫

Good thing I'm going to burn my NR antelope points this year. $600 for a NR antelope tag------LOL-----not for me.

If it's put up for a vote by residents, I'm sure it will pass. Can't blame a resident who wants a better shot at limited tags. It will hurt the game department as non-resident licenses make up the majority of the budget, so residents will have to shoulder the burden in fees. Look at how much they fleece non-residents now. Probably hurt the hospitality industry (outfitters, motels, bars, & stores). That's one of the reasons they have the silly outfitter needed for wilderness areas, to provide income for outfitters. But if you believe in states right, they certainly have the right and should do what they believe is best for their citizens.

Idaho's been doing this for years. In all hunts with quotas or draws, non-res applicants can only get 10% of the tags.

We have been going to Wyoming for 21 years. No more! [bleep]!

I can wholeheartedly empathize with the folks from WY. I hope the resident hunters are able to at least keep the G/O's marginally in check from completely selling out the resource to the highest bidder.

Damn I have 10/ea pronghorn, deer, and elk points. I really wish I had time to burn my pronghorn points this year.

This is REALLY gonna shaft those of us with lots of points.

I can understand residents wanting a better slice but to me their point system is already an unsustainable scam. At least in Idaho limited tags are allocated randomly with no point system.

Well, there is a chance it won't pass, I guess. This has come up before without passing.

UP to ten percent of the tags. Oftentimes it’s less than that.

I had 9 points for elk to, I was thinking about donating them to the wounded warriors, Wyoming won’t let me do that.

I feel the same way. And you're exactly right. The state has the right to do what they believe is best for their citizens. But I/we, as nonresidents, can also choose to spend what amounts to large sums of money, elsewhere. There's a huge potential for the state to loose not only financially, but a large amount of tourism and service related jobs if this bill passes.

I don't mind so much allocating more tags to residents. But to have the remaining lucky nonresidents pony up with increased tag fees for the states ensuing financial shortfall, is BS.

I think they are doing this for the budget, not resident hunters

$8m dollars worth

Yep. You guys are facing some serious budget shortfalls with the new administration, coal and gas are taking a hit. Years of low tax rates are catching up.

https://www.wyofile.com/for-wyos-untaxed-generations-the-free-ride-may-be-over/amp/

I don’t mind the price increase so much, the quota cut sucks though, especially since it’s been in place for 14 year and folks like me have been buying points for that long. Pard and I are applying for antelope in hopes of spending 14 points, think our unit is 70% draw odds with max/special license. Hopefully they just cut the bison, sheep, goat and moose to 10% and leave the rest the same.

It's hard to fund game and fish budgets without non-resident hunters.

I don’t see any way this could result in more money for WY. Sure, there’s fee increases but the much more expensive tags & fees for non residents, being sold in much lesser volume has to reduce total income without even factoring the likely more significant gas, lodging, food, etc.

I’m a resident but spent the bulk of my life hunting here as a non-resident before I moved, so I feel for y’all. Hope it doesn’t pass.

From what I'm understanding, they wanna do away with the regular\special tag fees and just go special prices, so basically everything will be double, not just the special "fees"...

I’m genuinely curious as to how high exactly prices would have to go before they saw a decrease in applications. Because every increase that’s ever been implemented has had the opposite affect.

In the application process you submit the whole amount for a license and tag. They hold that money for quite awhile and collect interest on it while you wait for the drawing. If you are successful and get a tag great if you aren't you finally get a refund. Wyoming makes a tremendous amount of revenue off that interest. Prices for the licenses are what ever the market will bear for nonresidents. If I was a resident I'd probably resent the nonresident intrusion in the hunting season as an average person trying to make a living there. Of course as someone making a living off the resource would have the opposite attitude. Pretty sh*less to take people's money for points then change the rules though. In 1995 I drew a general season statewide elk tag first time I tried, it was $355 residents paid $28 over the counter. Hunted in units around Atlantic City on the 5th day I shot a spike bull and was. happy to get him. Saw a lot of moose. So in 1996 I put in for a nonresident moose tag for that area 4 tags availible and at drawing time 5 applicants and no I didn't draw was priced at $1000 the next year the tag tag went up to $1700, they factored me out on the spot. Scarce resources are allways expensive and will cost even more as demand increases. Maybe wyoming game and fish wants less interest money and applicants in exchange for higher tag price I don t know. Mb

It's all about you dude,

Never mind that many other NR have been applying for Sheep or such for almost 2 decades,

19 years for sheep for me.

Reduction to 10% will end most peoples chance of ever drawing any of those tags.

In draw hunts, they just start drawing at random. When or if 10% of the total tags are drawn by non-res, the rest are skipped if their name comes up. In hunts with very few tags and lots of applicants, it's very possible that no non-res will be drawn before all the tags are gone.

I agree. Doing this sounds budget neutral for WG&F but damaging to the communities and businesses that provide goods and services to the nonresident hunters. I also think it is unfair to the people who have been buying preference points for years to lower their odds by a large margin and jack the rates significantly at the same time. If this passes, they should get a one-time chance for a refund.

I suspect that there will be a lot of pushback by communities and businesses that depend on nonresident dollars. With the ongoing war against mineral extraction industries and the current budget shortfall, every little bit of additional economic contraction is going to hurt.

Received this email from a guide that was forwarded:

Dear Sportsman,

Wyoming Senator Larry Hicks has filed Senate File 103, a 90/10 license allocation and fee increase bill that would be devastating to your ability to draw a Wyoming big game hunting license in the future.

We need your help to contact members of the Senate Travel, Recreation and Wildlife Committee as soon as possible to share your opposition to the bill and how it would impact your ability to hunt in Wyoming. The bill will be heard by the committee at 8 a.m. on Thursday, March 4, 2021.

Please keep your messages focused and specific to how this appalling bill will hurt your future plans to hunt in Wyoming. Please let the senators know that you have made a financial investment in preference points and license fees and remind the Senators of the positive economic impact nonresident hunters, like yourself, brings to Wyoming.

Thank you for taking the time to reach out to these Wyoming Legislators it is critical they hear from you and how a 50 percent reduction in licenses would affect your ability to hunt and Wyoming’s economy.

The Senators are listed below:

Chairwoman Affie Ellis (Cheyenne) [email protected]
Senator Mike Gierau (Jackson) [email protected]
Senator Tim Salazar (Dubois) [email protected]
Senator Bill Landen (Casper) [email protected]
Senator Wendy Schuler (Evantson) [email protected]


Sincerely,

Sy Gilliland, President
Wyoming Outfitters & Guides Association
PO Box 2650
Casper, WY 82602
[email protected]
wyoga.org
307.265.2376

A gift the us residents if it passes.

Compensation for putting up with this God Awful wind!

And BTW I could care less for any outfitters.

It's a lottery. The outcome is the same whether you apply on the first day of the app period or the last. If you apply on the first day, sure, they hold your money for over 6 months. If you apply the last day, you either draw or see a refund in a few weeks.

Yep or all about you too, fuuck everyone else while we’re at it. 👍

You have to get the license then you can donate it.

Me too, I’m sure we’re gonna find out.

By the way WG&F has always stated that PP are not a guarantee at a license, just increases your odds to draw one.
For many years those PP were pretty cheap too,


If you use Sy's letter to send an email be sure and ask him if he supports removing the NR wilderness hunting law. I know that answer but you all need to hear it. He is just looking out for himself and his outfitting business, he could care less about DIY hunters.

Most residents just want more LQ licenses for our draw, especially sheep and moose. The fee increase is not generally supported by resident hunters, not at levels they are proposing.

One of the biggest issues or residents is how they roll every license not awarded in resident draw to NR draw for deer and pronghorn. We want those licenses put in a leftover draw for all or another resident draw before the NR draw. We would love some extra tags for deer and pronghorn before NR get to draw them.

I don't think an increase in fees is going to have a real effect on the number of tags applied for. Sure, some NR's might drop out but somebody will take his place.

Yep, outfitters are looking out for number one. When a real estate agent tries to sell you the perfect home, they don't give a rat's ass if it's perfect for you and your family like they want you to believe. They want that commission to line their own pockets.

One thing that stands out to me is the amount of Federal land that is hunted on. We all own a piece of that, no? 90/10 split seems a little harsh just because NR's don't live next door to it.

Magnum Bob the WG&F does not collect interest on your application fees. They can not by statute.

Yes, but the state "owns "the wildlife on said federal lands. Feel free to come out and hike or camp for free.

This is the reason for the proposed legislative change. ^^^

Many WY residents (myself included) watch deer, antelope, elk and even moose out our windows on a regular basis (I don't see a lot of sheep or goats, but some do). Then we watch unethical hunters (I can name the states, but unethical hunters come from ALL states, even WY), run there SxS and ATV across the landscape, cut thru fences that are in their way, and empty 14 rounds into a running herd. The TV show says that I can kill and elk with a 6.7mm whizbang at 14593 yards, so there they are, shoot at them!!! Then went I ask a landowner that I have known for 20 years if I can hunt on his property - he says no because hunters tear up his pasture and push elk thru his fence, and it is too expensive to repair.

WY lives in a boom or bust economy. Either the Energy industry or the Tourism industry, even the Ag industry has it's cycles. Those that choose to live here and make a living here known this and deal with it. Why not give the resident better odds at one of the joys of living here?

Failed in committee.
Back to the drawing board.


Cowboybart, I believe the commission has heard this argument and will listen to residents about that roll over into the NR draw. They get to make that decision, not the legislature. Contact your commissioners about it.

I think residents should get a preference. 90/10 is a little extreme.

Hunting in the west has greatly changed in the last few decades. I dont think 10% is out of line at all. In my home state I dont think NR should have a a crack at limited entry tags like sheep,moose, goat, etc at all.

It's dead for now.

Good. 👍

Western hunting is all about catering to the money folks. ... used to be a poor person pastime to feed their families. Now its turned into a billion dollar empire with high tech gizmos, tv shows, and designer camo.

Yes, but that's supply and demand. If more people apply than licenses, then there's to much demand, so raise the price, or at least the market can handle an increase. Outfitters as well, the cost of a hunt is higher than years ago (used to be easy to find a good sub-$5k elk hunt 10 years ago). Yet demand still increases.

Does this cut out some people? Yup, or at the very minimum it limits them or makes them make hard choices.

But it's free market.

I've golfed longer than I"ve western hunted. Golf went through the same thing. CROWDS, green fees went up and up and up, crowds eventually said "ya know, this isn't worth the money for an all day round of golf" and crowds went down, green fees went down. Now they are coming back up, all supply and demand.

It's a lottery. The outcome is the same whether you apply on the first day of the app period or the last. If you apply on the first day, sure, they hold your money for over 6 months. If you apply the last day, you either draw or see a refund in a few weeks.[/quote]

For Non Resident WY elk you have to apply early and they hold it for 5 months. No other choice. You can thank WYOGA for that!

Andy, didn’t you mention they wanted the special elk tags to go from $1200 to $2000?

YGTFKM.

You're statement regarding your fellow outdoor enthusiasts is so judgmental that I'm almost at a loss for words.

Everyone is a non-resident in most places we go, To imply that residents are that superior to nonresidents, to deny a fellow sportsmen the dream of possibly pulling a sheep tag once in his entire life........

You are not one of my peers, we clearly do not think alike,

I'm ashamed of your self-righteousness.

Thanks for the info.

Apply in good Ol Washington, we don’t have non resident quotas, and tags don’t go to max point holders

It was mention by a certain person AKA The president of WYOGA that they recommended NR WY regular tags be $1400 and the Special tag be $2000.

This bill was passed onto the newly formed Wyoming Wildlife task force and it will be very interesting to see what they do with it now.

Should the proposals come to pass, I'll do one more elk hunt, and then I'll go elsewhere.

Did see a budget rundown recently in one of their rags, and yes, non residents do carry the ball in that state.

This is a fight that will be happening in every Western state.

There was a sh it SB this year that would have put our split at 90/10 vs the current 84/10/6, which is a BS split. BHA and NMWF put it at the front of the bill hoping residents would fall for it.

Can blame Newberg, Gohunt and all the other platforms promoting Western public land hunting IMO.

Your exactly right brother. Local kid here in town went to Montana for the first time last year. Yesterday the dummy was doing a podcast on it!! 4 of em went over and killed a truckload of 110”-120” bucks, now he’s the fuucking expert tellin every other swinging Dick how to do it..

I know "famous" podcast hosts who literally didn't know how to hunt on public land less than 10 years ago and lived east of the Mississippi. Some of them "cut their teeth" within a few miles of my house.

Now they are "pros". Most of them are this way, not all, but most.....

They know enough to talk for an hour with folks listening who haven't a clue.

Welcome to getting a tag in 2021. Personal tag strategies have changed, drastically...

You both nailed it.

Everybody wants to be Instafamous. A local idiot drew a unit I use to be able to draw almost every year and killed a 300” bull. He plastered it on every social media outlet there is telling everyone how easy the unit was to draw and what a stud he was, you know the rest of the story.

I don't tell my wife where I hunt for the most part and run all photos through software to take GPS coords off of them.

I also get stalked locally. I change vehicles and UTVs and parking spots with strategy behind every move. Which usually means a really really early wakeup and a giant hike. But it's worth it to keep the idiots guessing ..

Some very famous instagrammmers wanted to play this past year. They'll be hunting in a gar hole for a few days next year at a minimum....😄

I've been known to park my rig in a spot, then hop on my dirt bike and ride 10 miles further down a main road, hide the bike and start hiking. I've also been known to get antlers out only at night. I also am no stranger to spreading bar rumors of a huge buck in an area that I have zero intention of hunting. Stupid games a guy has to play these days, but otherwise your spots will be ruined.

It sucks, but it is what it is.

It sucks the games that are having to be played.

It’s funny watching a local outfitter flood an area with “spotters” before a hunt and watch the masses follow.

Yep. We go to great lengths to get horns out unseen. I mean, anal. I have never told the truth for hunting units. Ever. Gar hole baby.

We play epic mind games. Lots of other stuff too. Radios, faking folks out on a hill where we can be glassed, etc. List goes on..

Hell, I drive up my driveway half the time with my lights off as my neighbors monitor when I get home relative to distance to where I hunt sometimes.

What I dealt with all year.

Well, we live here for starters...we dont owe NR a single tag.

They have these great big wooden, heavy posted trail signs (i.e., no off road vehicles, etc.) in AK. I heard of a couple guys who may have dug one up and relocated it...all in the name of game preservation, and escape and evade tactics. BLM and the fish cops interrogated them without luck. Not their only brush with an opportunity to wear a horizontal striped suit (fuggin people shouldn’t listen to their conversations and then follow/camp next to them) but a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do. I might be sittin real close to one now. <grin>

On the other hand it is kind of flattering to know that folks think you're good enough to bother following around and watch for.

I'm not really even much of a trophy hunter and I still have people follow me around, and in the past have noticed some of them park near wherever I do. Total lack of morals, I guess.

Well, I've been fortunate but it's the world we live in these days. I'll be damned if my hard work and time gets stolen....

MT is your home state? For how long? Seems like the location in your avatar used to say MI? So you move to MT from MI and suddenly your an expert on how MT has changed over the last few decades?

It's far from dead. The votes just kicked the bill to the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force.

Link?

I've hunted MT since 1991. Are you saying its stayed the same?

It will probably rise again and again until it finally passes. We need to support the Outfitters, as they are they main opposition organization that the legislators will listen to.

Sorry man but wildlife in any state should be managed for the benefit of it's residents as they are the ones said wildlife is held in trust for. No one is stating that residents are "superior" to NR.
Get off your high horse.
As residents our wildlife should be manages for us not you. Hunting as a NR is a privilege not a right. Consider yourself lucky as a NR that Wyoming even offers you sheep or moose licenses. How about we just allow NR to hunt in Wyoming the same species that we can hunt in your state? Sounds fair to me.
I do not expect the same hunting opportunities in other states as I do in my home state. Your entitlement is laughable.
Advocating for increases resident opportunities is not stating that we are superior to NR.

How long has MT been your "home state"?

That bill is idiocy personified. $1100. for an elk tag and $655. for a deer tag! Retards. Have never been all that impressed with WYG&F and can see very little positive they do for the game populations. Think about it what are they spending all that money on?

A preface to statements that follow: I live in a small Podunk “City” in east Tennessee. That doesn’t mean anything till you look where it is – right next to the Smoky Mountains – National Park, the most visited national park in the country. I spend 60-70-80 days or parts of days every year in the Smokys. I’m used to lots of visitors in my town, anywhere I go, hiking in the Smokys, fishing in streams/creeks, every where........

I have 2 issues with the WY, and MT, initiatives.
1. By raising the price of an elk tag another $300, and talk of making tags $2000 mentioned in this thread, a point will be reached where guys like me will say forget it. I’m not paying $2000 for an elk tag. I’ve swallowed hard and forked over $12/1300 for 2 WY NR “Special” elk tags in the past 5-6 years. The MT initiative is even worse. The MOGA wanted 60%, later revised to 39% (I think) of all tags to go to MOGA constituents. This is great business for MOGA and their clients. Basically, rich dudes get to hunt elk every year by going with an outfitter, the rest of us get the privilege to pull a tag once every 5 years or so. And we get to pay a higher fee for that privilege. My point: hunting out west is becoming a rich man’s sport. Joe Blue Collar won’t be hunting. A point for later reference – there are more Joe Blue Collar guys than rich dudes.
2. My second issue is related to the first – can the people proposing these issues see the divide it is creating? Each state can do what they wish in their state, and the people of that state can do as they wish with their wildlife. I got no issue with that. What wraps me around the axle is folks posing a self-centered view to further their own chances, experience, or whatever motivates them to vehemently support these initiatives.

I raise these two points to set up a 50,000 foot view of these issues. With hunter numbers declining, maybe not in your neighborhood/area/state, why do we want mechanisms to further limit our numbers? Secondly, I don’t see how a state can justify reducing the number of NR hunters in times of budget issues. Wyoming comes to mind here. I receive the “Cowboy State Daily” in my email box every day about 11 AM. I love WY, vacation there every year and will likely move there when I retire. In theory, I should shut up and seek self-interest because I plan to be a resident and I’ll have more tags to myself in 3-4-5 years.

Maybe not so coincidentally, here a link to one of the top story’s today: UW Analysis: Wyoming Could Lose $12.9B From Energy Moratorium. Economic math is a funny thing, and clearly related to statistics – I can make it say anything I want. Its not a secret that the new administration is going to develop policies and/or Regs that will hurt the economy of Wyoming. I’m very well aware of the coal situation in WY – down something like 10% in the past 2 years with a slew of legal issues surrounding several operators in the Power River Basin. It isn’t going to get better.

Back to my preface: in TN I enjoy a 0% state income tax. Likely not again so coincidentally, in the Cowboy today, I see one of WY legislators have proposed a 4% state income tax (I believe they have zero now). WY obviously has a budget issue, either now or on the horizon. I put up with the tourists (i.e. NR) in the Smokys, in every friggin’ town/city/village, on the rivers, steams in the Smokys trying to catch an 8 inch trout for one reason – they keep my property taxes low and state income taxes to 0. I have figured out areas to go with close to zero people, maybe a local or two. I guarantee it works the same way with residents in hunting spots. Why put a hit on your local and state economy because you want more tags to yourself, or MOGA in MT?

Next, if we price out people like me, and most other DIY guys, that leaves fewer hunters - recall there is more Joe Blue Collar, than rich dudes. I can't help but see hunter numbers declining. I think the current number is 5% of US residents over 16 are hunters. Do we really want to start putting up road blocks to new hunters?

At 57, I could foresee a future of no or very restricted hunting opportunities. Sounds like a situation we fled in the 1700’s………………

Man I wish Colorado would do this! Sucks living in a state that caters to non-residents!

I only have this fall to base it on, but I don't see hunter numbers dropping. The Big Horns, and plains where I pronghorn hunt were VERY full with LOTS of out of state plates. Will price increase drive some out? Yup, it will. Will it drive out enough to actually make a difference to things like hotels, restaurants etc. that THRIVE on non-resident traffic where I live. Nope, most likely nothing there will change. All local hotels where FULL from Oct 1 through part of November, local restaurants where noticeably more crowded, even with C19 restrictions. Traffic in/out of the Big Horns was high and pretty much every where you could put a camper had a camper. Even into November elk hunting about 1/2 the trucks I saw driving in for hunting was out of state (including the one who pulled me out of snow!)

Non-residents supply a TON of money to local communities, so I am not in favor of cutting them off. But yes, residents should get most tags.

I've heard this bill was killed, but there are others to try and help:

- raising the stamp price and dedicating that money to purchasing easements to cross private land to get to public
- adding 1 cent to the 6% tax

IMO, there are 2 entities that profit via non-resident hunters. G&F dept's and G/O's, and that's it.

G&F dept's profit via increased license fees. G/O's profit obviously via guiding/outfitting clients. Everything else is a wash. G&F as well as G/O's won't want you to hear or believe that though.

My rationale:

A NR is going to give you MAYBE 1wk worth of revenue. Restaurant, fuel, hotel, groceries, etc. A resident hunter gives you an entire season.

Non-resident hunters are a renewable resource. Someone new is added to a group, a patriarch takes a group on a "lifetime hunt". Somone graduates college and gets a job, or someone retires and finally has the time and $$ to go hunt out of state. Resident hunters once they sell their stuff, or at least decide they're done, they're done. When decide hunting is no longer worth it and they're done, the folks who sell fuel, hotels, food, etc have lost weekly revenue from ~9/1-12/31. Even longer if the hunter gives up scouting trips and winter predator hunting.

I know an awful lot of folks who were lifetime hunting dog owners that have not replaced dogs because what little habitat we have left is leased primarily to NR's coming to hunt birds/waterfowl for a few days.

If hunting elk and other critters is that important to you, then move to where you can hunt them as a resident. Or pay the piper, to the tune of whatever the folks who LIVE THERE decide the price point is. It's really that simple. It'd be neat if I could get an over the counter bull elk tag for PA, or KY for a c-note. Maybe I should start whining?

Yeah they are so bad everyone is up un arms over a fee increase. They spend the money on game management that's why the hunting is great in Wyoming.
Prices, although I don't support that large of an increase , are on par with other states.

How much would it cost you to shoot a high fence elk in Texas ? I bet way more than $1100 to get behind that high fence or even better yet out West Texas. I bet a trophy hunt out there would set you back 7x $1100 or more.
$1100 in Wyoming could get you a trophy elk if you know how to DIY.

WG&F is highly respected for their game management, you're showing your ignorance with that statement.

Don’t apply then. No one is forcing you to. WY G&F do a pretty darn good job managing their resources and have some great people working for them.

Again, Another one, LMAO!

'Cub, you've lived in how many different states?

And so now at this present time, you "qualify" has a Colorado resident.

And look at you perched on your stump decrying others who may travel to hunt,

Because you're a "resident" for 12 months...

Can't make this stuff up.

And please, tell us how Colorado caters to non-residents.

Out of curiosity, how do you think states should handle NR’s.

First, I laugh at the people who jump from state to state and then declare themselves, Residents with all the Privileges,

Suddenly it's "their" Wildlife....uh-huh.

And that Wildlife is on Public, Federal lands...

And I laugh when people think hunting has only changed in their state, but not mine or yours.

Same ole crap, Residents vs Non.

Regarding how states should handle it,

No perfect answer for everyone which is why you see so many different methods/systems throughout the states.

Regarding Sheep and WY, if the draw went to 10% rather than the current and somewhat questionable 25%, That would effectively end Sheep and Moose for 99.5% of the Non-resident population.

After 19 years of apps and fees, I do not like this proposal,

I'm willing to bet you can empathize with that.

most states stick it to the NR, my state is no exception. I just play by their rules if I want to hunt there. Wyoming is extremely fair to the NR imo. As their population increases change is inevitable. Also it’s my opinion that WYF&G does a good job, every time ive hunted Wyoming I’ve had a good hunt with quality critters.

That said the self righteous resident that thinks there should be no NR tags I just consider the source. It’s usually from a transplant that couldn’t hunt their way out of a paper sack to begin with, so it’s the NR fault they suck. Prove me wrong

Unfortunately, there is no easy answer to it all. I have a feeling as more and more platforms promote Western hunting, the arguments are going to get more bitter.

Personally, I have been pushing for a straight 85/15 split in NM, eliminating the outfitter subsidy.

Don’t bring up federal lands, that’s been argued adnausem. What about wildlife on private?

I’ve whined enough about NM, I just took my own advice and stopped hunting there instead of whining about it. Sucks but that’s how it is right now.

Instagram hunters turn my stomach. “Yo bro I’ve gotta get footage this is my lively hood “. Makes a kill and blogs about it the rest of the year. Just go away already. Flat brimmed cock suckers.

Couldn’t agree more.

Unfortunately, like a lot of states, the resident hunters of NM have allowed the outfitting industry to pretty much dictate allocations.

It feels like the tide might be turning though.

Yep I dropped Wyoming sheep and moose when they started cuttin moose tags, dropped Utah too.

I followed Cameron hanes for I think 3 days before I unfollowed him. Used to like him as he started out as a blacktail/Roosevelt killer in country like here. Fame got the best of him. Mostly follow coues guys, canucks and the many sexy women on there now. 😂😂😂 oh and knife makers. 👍

I live in the [bleep] state so yes I am a [bleep] resident, going on 4 years now. Can’t make this stuff up???? Do you [bleep] live in Colorado?

Let’s start with UNLIMITED Over The Counter Tags (Archery and Rifle) for non-residents! Can you name another western state that allows that?

You don’t see me bitching because I can’t hunt in Wyoming, Utah,Montana or any other state I don’t [bleep] live in!

Dumbasss when you move your family to another state, buy property, and pay taxes that’s called residency!

Colorado needs a better cap for premium tags like goat, moose, and sheep. Its damn near impossible to draw those tags even if you live here...

Not to interject 😂😂, Washington is wide open, no quotas on tags, or oil tags.

Good to know! 👍🏻

Not bad if a guy wants to apply for a goat, sheep or moose. Otc tags for Roosevelt bulls and blacktail bucks.

Blacktail is definitely on my “some day” list. Roosevelt too, but I much prefer deer hunting overall.

That's not catering to NR, How are you being denied anything?

And all of Co is not unlimited, nor OTC.

Your statement of CO catering to NR was idiotic.

Your right, Colorado isn’t the fall back plan for every elk hunter in the country that doesn’t draw in a state that doesn’t offer UNLIMITED OTC elk tags. Jesus.....

Yep, bucks, any species is where it’s at for me. 👍

Coues and blacktail are my passion.

Again, not true.

Never in my life have I went to CO for Elk because my plans for a different state didn't pan out,

I also do not know of any other person who has went to CO because his plans for a different state didn't pan out.

What you're trying to imply is a very, very, small amount of hunters that may make last minute changes.

Last time, that is not catering to NR.

As a DIY hunter I’ll side w/resident DIY hunters even if it means I don’t get to go as often.

Got any more dumbass statements that you’d like to walk back? Laffin’ Hint

I have a serious question for the resident hunters that want to see non resident numbers drop or have them pay an astronomical price that will keep people like me from making the trip anymore. Non resident fees make up a large percentage of revenue for your F&G departments, so would you be willing to have your tag fees increased by $150-200 to offset the lost revenue? Would you want your fees to stay the same and have services reduced? I am just trying to get a handle on the different perspectives, as I live in a state where non residents flock to to deer hunt, and here many of the same opinions expressed here by locals.

Me and about 10-11 of my hunting buddies...........

How do you propose to introduce a new guy to elk hunting who has zero points? Tell him he needs to wait a couple years?

We’ve been having this conversation a lot here locally.

I don’t think you can price NR elk tags so high that a quota is not filled. Then the question is, is each state ok with adding to the problem of it becoming a rich mans sport.

In NM, we have a goofy land owner authorization program, in a recent audit it found close to 75% of them are converted by NR’s. The authorizations range from the low side of $2,500 to $10,000+, this is on top of the NR lic.

Until the price for tags gets so high that Preference Points are no longer needed and there are surplus tags available on opening day, there won't be a loss of revenue to G&F or the G/O's. The state G&F, G/O's, and resident hunters couldn't possibly care less that someone doesn't like their NR tag/license/permit prices.

MT proved that in '11 when they eliminated all guaranteed outfitter tags and raised the Non-Resident price of their big-game combo tag from $675 to $1K, deer tags went from $450ish to just under $700. There were surplus big-game combo tags available essentially OTC up through opening day for 4-5 years. There was a great wailing, moaning, and gnashing of teeth from folks who'd "hunted there forever" being suddenly priced out. Lots of, "That's nuts, I'll never go back, blah, blah, blah."

Prior to the lottery and price changes of 2011, a NR could draw the big-game combo tags roughly every other year and deer tags were out 3-4 years. There were thousands of folks who basically told MT to piss up a rope and they either stopped hunting western big-game, or, lots of them headed for other states. The point-creep in other states for deer and elk and to a lessor extent pronghorn went nuts. A NR Region G deer tag in WY that used to take 2-3 yrs to draw now takes 5-7 the same thing has happened all over the state and all over the West.

Back to MT, 2014 my friend bought a deer tag essentially OTC in July because there were leftovers. 2015, there were folks who didn't draw NR Deer tags in the general lottery because the word was out. You could hunt in MT right away without waiting the better part of a decade to build points. The $1K combo tags lagged that by about 2yrs but by 2017, there were folks getting turned down in the general lottery for $1K combo tags as well. MT is now looking at another potential price increase.

Western big game tags are essentially like ammo or reloading components right now. They're in short supply, people are willing to pay higher prices, in fact, people are willing to pay through the nose just for the privilege of standing in line.

So I'll end the same way I began. Until there are surplus tags on opening day, the G&F and G/O's aren't losing a dime and neither them, nor the resident hunters give a rodent's-behind if you don't like the cost of a permit/license/tag.

Waiting is the only logical option. I mean having unlimited no caps of how many hunters youll allow to trample all over hell and back in a given unit doesn’t just make for a chit experience , it also over crowds other species that are being hunted at the same time and worse case scenario is downright dangerous. There’s been at least 1 hunter killed by another hunter each of the last few years. It’s just too much! Each year I get a survey that asks the same questions in different ways but basically, “was there too much hunting pressure”? Duhhhhh CPWD knows it’s a chit show, but all they care about is money. They love that hydrant flow of non-res money!

Is there some regulation I haven't heard about in which virgin elk hunters from TN just magically get to cut to the front of the line?

'cub, I'm sure you're an ok dude, but you're a terrible debater.

One hunter was killed? In all of Colorado? for the entire season? That would be considered a very safe season to all but one person, out of how many?

And that person was Res or NR? Gun safety issue most likely?

Your a resident for 4 years? How many years have you hunted CO? Not really a lengthy time frame there to tell me "all about CO"

I've been hunting CO since about '93, so tell me about YOUR 12 maybe 13 hunts there,

Not sure where your hunting but I've yet to see the crowded, unsafe conditions your trying to imply,


I did have one Deer hunt years back, ATV trails everywhere, that was a bit too much regarding traffic, of course Res outnumbered NR by a huge margin, so forget about the NR causing all the crowding.

Maybe 10 bulls here, just a fact that's all. Point being, Not sure who your trying to tell what..

Get your ass away from the road, And enjoy the Mountain.

Spotting a orange dot a mile away is not "downright dangerous"

Kenneth you fail to realize the residents of a state "own" the wildlife, not the federal gov't. Wildlife is managed for our benefit not NR. Doesn't matter if it's on federal land or no , it is the state's wildlife.

As far as Colorado being backup for folks that don't draw, that is true. Take a look over on a Texas hunting forum. Thousands of OTC elk tags are sold every year to NR.

Also all those PP you been buying in Wyoming have never been a guarantee for a license as stated by WG&F, they merely give you better odds to draw. If you've been buying PP for a guaranteed tag then that's on you, read up before you buy.

You should wish the leftards would move back to California, that would cut the states population in half.

Kenneth I’m not here to debate with you man, Colorado has a huge overcrowding problem, it’s not some secret insight of mine after only 4 years of hunting and living here, it’s the ongoing consensus. I know a lot of guys that don’t even hunt here and they live here and have most of their lives. They buy a preference point here and then go and hunt out of state in places where regardless of cost the experience is better. Or they have quit hunting all together. There are so many issues at play here that are going to make the hunting experience more disastrous ( ie point creep) the new apply for as many species as you want for hardly any money up front, that it’s only going to get worse, The state puts out herd numbers that none of the locals concur with and success rates are horrendous. The state might indicate 10% success in some units but they fail to tell you that 6% of that 10% takes place on private land hunts.

Cmon now wytex, I’m idiotic and that’s not true! Right, spend 10 minutes on any online hunting forum, the Texas Hunting Forum, Rokslide, Big Game.net, everyone is being told just come to Colorado and you can hunt elk, no restrictions, no limit, pick your tag up at Walmart! I’ve hiked 6 miles from a trailhead and met more than 1/2 dozen guys bow hunting elk that weren’t from Colorado on a given day! It’s just my imagination though!

The issue is that states have transitioned from good sound wildlife management to a means of funding for the state and the quality of the animals, the quality of the experience, and herd management plays second fiddle to meeting a budget goal, it’s that simple! There’s all kinds of articles available discussing the economic goals of CPWD and wildlife management has nothing to do with it. The Parks side wants the most money, selling the tags is critical to fund the Parks side, not the wildlife side of the organization.

That's true for all 50 states. Would that be a investigatory task the hunter should do in planning hunts?

Texans may flood the Colorado woods, but Californians (at least those from N Cali) flood the Idaho elk fields, as Idaho has some unlimited NR areas. Washington folks flood north Idaho in the same manner. Vehicles and campers in every wide spot. It is not just Colorado that has the issue.

The best thing I ever did before leaving Idaho was buy a lifetime license, so my name is in the pool with the residents. That, and being 60% VA disabled, I get dirt cheap NR licenses there.

Am I part of the problem? Probably but it is what it is.

Oh cut the crap out, years ago you spewed the same crap about Alaska being so crowed when you were a "resident" of Alaska...

Feel free to go back to Alaska Outdoors and read your same drivel,

Now you're another Resident in another state and you feel you should always have the entire area to yourself. Good luck with that.

It's true, some things never change.

I and 2 buds hunted CO for Elk first rifle in 2019, Tell me all about this overcrowding,

And to really piss you off, these 3 NR Cheese heads brought home 3 bulls in '19,

Enough of the woe is me crap.

You win, your dick is bigger mine. Back to the original topic, good on Wyoming for doing something so few states will, prioritizing their residents over non-residents for a change! And remember resident hunters should shut the [bleep] up when voicing their opinions about deteriorating hunting conditions caused by excess non-resident hunters...., got it!

Maine does exactly that with their moose program. It is not unique.

They come from everywhere to hunt Colorado. I’d agree it’s overcrowded. I started hunting Colorado in 2001, I don’t think it was less crowded then the difference is guys are hunting harder than the used to. I used to have several good spots in units I can draw fairly easy. Those great spots are no longer. guys are hiking in spike camps,rafting across rivers, navigating property lines..all of it. Getting tough to get away from them now.

They’re killing the deer quality in my favorite units. They say it’s to slow the spread of CWD. In 20 years I haven’t seen a sickly looking deer over there, but I’m not a biologist.. I don’t normally hunt elk there, but it’s a rare year I couldn’t fill a bull tag while deer hunting. Just gotta stay persistent, it’s a mental game as much as it is physical.

Dunno what the rest of you guys pay in your home states...



Plus we have the option of a second bear and cougar tag... freshwater, saltwater fishing extra, as is shrimp, clam, crab, ducks, pheasant etc...

A lot of truth in all of that, I am sure.
I wish I had a better answer for it all.

EFI provided the reliability folks needed to make the long drives West. 75-80MPH Interstate's save folks 1/2-1.5 days of travel round trip. Throw in a bit of TV and YouTube encouragement and it gets BUSY in a hurry.

The other aspect, "The Hunting Party". You don't see folks who grew up in the West hunting with 2-4 truckloads of their friends. Mostly it's alone, immediate family, or 1 maybe 2 good friends. The 10-20 person cabin/camp thing is still alive and well E of the Mississippi and now at least parts of those camps travel annually. Lets face it, it's a whole lot less expensive to split gas 4 ways even if you have to pull a trailer.

You've heard of Colorado's OTC tags for second, third, fourth season?

I believe in states rights, put it on a ballot and let the states residents decide the out come. Hunting has been a rich mans game since the Pittman Robertson act. My thinking is if, you don't like it go somewhere else, become as resident or buy enough land to get landowner tags. Sad truth is money talks and BS walks.

Why the hostility and quotation marks when you say resident?

That is the reason that I purchased a Lifetime Idaho Hunting License. If I apply to participate in a drawing as a non-resident, I would be placed in the resident tag pool. The gal at the fish cop shop that sold me my lifetime license twenty years ago, told me that I would no doubt be right about the tag allocations in the future. But she also bet that I wouldn’t come back from Montana to hunt in Idaho. Unfortunately, she was right-I have never used my Lifetime License.

I’ve got the same points going into the antelope draw for this year. Might see you in the same unit.

You don’t want anything to do with hunting/conservation on a ballot IMO.

That’s a fact brother SLM, we saw how that went in 96’, our bobcat, lion, and bear with dogs went bye bye...

+2

Too many uninformed folks having a say in something they know nothing about. Very bad for the resource, be it renewable or not.

I plan to go Bird hunting with my buddy in Montana this year and I was hoping to be able to hunt whitetail or mule deer as well but not sure that will happen, although I have a lot more research to do. Judman is kinda selling me on Washington though. Hear it’s hard hunting out there which sounds even better. I’m only 26 and haven’t a lot of knowledge and no experience hunting out west so I gotta ask. What’s the point behind a point system? Instead of just a lottery where everyone has the same chance year after year?

It allows those of us who hunt every year to continue that trend, my group are not casual hunters and we buy points, in multiple states annually so that we seldom run out of opportunities. We have learned how and when we can draw. Like many here , hunting is not a weekend excursion, to see the great outdoors. It's a way of life, we are very serious and travel thousands of miles annually just to hunt. The point system allows the "dedicated" a better opportunity over the casual hunter, some of who may not even show up, after drawing a tag. Many units take decades to draw, and if you keep at it you will be rewarded, not lose your opportunity to someone who thinks it might be a fun weekend.

Did this legislative initiative die out? I heard from a reliable source that it did.

I have 7 points for Antelope, but if they don't want me my money and I will go else where!

Last season in SE Idaho I bumped into 4 guys from Mississippi. They said it was their 4th straight year hunting the area. 'Course that was just before I met the father & son from Illinois out on their 1st trip...

Not so bad, NR tags costing ten times as much as resident tags. When I lived in Washington I knew many that hunted without a license and typically used 22 rifles. The welfare check only went so far.

Here’s Colorado’s feeble attempt to do something similar to Wyoming, except Colorado wants to limit non-residents to ONLY 30% tag allocation in the draws!

https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb21-150