Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Here is the FB page I was talking about.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/110463932352335

Cheers,

Russ

Hannay,

Remember that hard lead-alloy bullets will spring back after sizing.
My 92-5-2-1/BHN-25 alloy bullets are often cast at 0.462", painted up to 0.463", then pushed through a 0.460" Lee sizer and end up at 0.461".
I have Lee sizers in .458", .459", and .460", custom ordered pre-covid mess.
The softer lead alloy bullets will size to nominal die diameter and stay like that.
If you had to have one sizer, it should be 0.459" and it will allow you o produce 0.460" hardcast and .459" softer bullets.
I think you can find .459" Lee sizers off the shelf.
CH4D is another source for bullet sizing dies and might have whatever you need off the shelf or will make it as custom order.
I got a 0.511" sizer from CH4D (off the shelf) and expect it to produce 0.512" hardcast and .511" "softcast."

You have to size jacketed and monometal copper bullets to 0.002" smaller than final. They spring back that much.

The Lyman mould handles have apparently changed from the old style where there were these three that I have one each of:

Small No. 2735791
Large No. 2735793
Four Cavity No. 2735794

Now there is one set for single-cavity and two-cavity moulds and a "Four-cavity" handle set for others?
Surely the new handles will work with the old moulds that surely should have same spreads as new moulds ?
Good luck finding what you need these days of "out of stock."
Hoarding of mould handles too ? Makes as much sense as toilet paper hoarding, I reckon.
I would grab any from local emporiums or wherever you can find them new or used and try them.
I used to watch for them at gunshows too, pre-covid.
I browsed at "Biff's Gunworld" and "Knob Creek" here in Guntucky, rummaged about and found some of the old handles.
Other type handles I ordered on internet, Hoch, Saeco, Lee, etc.
Sure makes you appreciate the Lee moulds that come with handles attached in the box.

Russ,

I have been allowed to lurk at Fakebook on the .458 WM, etc. page.
Yes, everything from the sublime to the ridiculous there:

Sublime: "Thunder Valley Precision .458 Win Mag with an integrated suppressor. It will shoot 1000 yards easy. Will be testing soon ... are for sale ..."
Makes me wonder what bullet and velocity
and how much of that 3- or 4-foot barrel is suppressor ?



Ridiculous: "My new tattoo."



And his old nipple ring.

Thank you, Ron, for your generosity with your knowledge - greatly appreciated! Strange times we live in - though I'd guess the "mould handle shortage" is probably just a knock-on effect of all the demand for other things produced by the same manufacturers. I'm sure I'll find some soon, as well as the sizers. In the meantime... I've got other 458 Win Mag reloading trials to do! :-)

Hannay,



The RCBS handles work for about anything and might be available here, in stock:

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=bullet+mould+handles&userItemsPerPage=48

The jaws of RCBS handles are 0.300" thick where they fit in the sides of the mould block, same as on SAECO and LYMAN.

SAECO by Redding is out of stock backorder OK.

The Lyman handles are out of stock NO BACKORDER.

One size fits all with RCBS and SAECO.
Silly Lyman now with two sizes.

You might look at Buffalo Arms Co. also:

www.buffaloarms.com

From that Fakebook page, a lovely Browning Safari .458 Winchester Magnum like Ron "Mahohboh" Thomson used on most of his over 5000 elephant kills for conservation:

Ron - Thanks! I ordered some RCBS handles.

Yes, thanks to Russ, my image collection of .458 Winchester Magnum stuff is growing.
I still have thousands of my old ones from ardotcom to edit, and putting them up here makes me pay closer attention to them.
Ho ho. Hey, I heard Saeed was born in San Diego, CA, so he is an anchor baby ! Ha ha.

The too-long-for-any-sporting-rifle 500-gr TSX can be converted to 480-grain T6 Buffalo Buster (see previous page of this thread)
and it can also be converted to a 400-gr T6BB:





Compare to 500-gr TSX:



Joining the 480-gr T6BB, the other improved TSX is the 400-gr T6BB:







For the .458 WM+:
Easily +2500 fps at 3.565" COL.
Capable of +2600 fps at 3.675" COL.

Trim the brass to 2.495" and SAAMI .458 WM is capable of 2400 fps at 3.340" COL with the excellent new ball powders.

Great. An old beat up hickory carpenter's hammer handle makes a great tool for lightly knocking open the sprue plate.
Or cut off the handle of a Louisville Slugger bat.
Some elbow-length rough leather gloves (backyard BBQ pit kit) and long sleeves are a good idea when pouring lead,
as is wearing safety glasses or polycarbonate lens prescription spectacles with no coatings, i.e., farmer's specs that can be cleaned on your shirt tail.

Still waiting for the Accurate Molds brass two-fer with 485-grainers.

The .458 WM+ with 23" to 25" barrel has these jacketed and monometal loads I'll vouch for:

600-gr Barnes Original RNSN at 2050 fps
500-gr TBSS FN at +2300 fps
480-gr T6BB and Woodleigh HYDRO Tropical loads at 2250 to 2300 fps
450-gr TSX at +2400 fps
400-gr T6BB and Woodleigh PPSN at 2500 to 2600 fps
350-gr TSX at 2750 to 2800 fps
300-gr TSX at 2800 to 2900 fps

Some verified accurate cast loads in the .458 WM at 3.340" COL and the .458 WM+ at up to 3.600":

579-gr FNGC BHN-25 at 1400 fps with Blackhorn 209 with foam filler wad, 3.340" COL
543-gr FNGC BHN-25 at 2200 fps with AA-2460 no filler, 3.600" COL
543-gr FNGC BHN-25 at 2025 fps with AA-2230 no filler, 3.340" COL
538-gr "Gibbs Money Nose" Plain Base BHN-25 at 1940 fps with AA-2230 no filler, 3.600" COL
525-gr FNGC BHN-25 at 1940 fps with AA-2230 no filler, 3.385" COL
517-gr RN "Lyman Government" Plain Base BHN-25 at 1905 fps with AA-2230 no filler, 3.500" COL
487-gr RN "Lyman Government" Plain Base Linotype at 1400 fps with AA-5744 no filler, 3.500" COL, 600-yard gong ringer
487-gr "Pointed RN Lee" Plain Base BHN-25 at 1945 fps with AA-2230 no filler, 3.500" COL
475-gr "Semi-pointed RN Lyman" GC BHN-25 at 1960 fps with AA-2230 no filler, COL 3.450"
407-gr Small-Meplat FNGC BHN-25 at 2170 fps with AA-2495 and no filler, 3.260" COL

All six different AA-2230 loads with cast bullets above used 65.0 grains of powder and no filler.
I was pleasantly surprised that they all shot very accurately with various bullet weights and various COLs with the various BOLs.
I considered this to be a good starting load with all of those cast bullets from 475-gr to 543-gr weights.
This very well demonstrates that the .458 WM is gifted in the accuracy department with hardcast bullets sized to 0.461".
All six of those AA-2230 loads were test-fired in a 23"-long, .458"-grooved, skinny No. 4 sporter contour, McGowen barrel.

All ten of the above cast bullets are hard alloy and PC-painted, sized to .461" by being passed through a 0.460" Lee sizer die.
This includes Blackhorn 209 with filler, and no-filler loads with AA-2230, AA-2460, AA-2495, and AA-5744.

The FN Plain Base Lyman "PH" of Saint Bagwell, cast in WW/Lead, is 0.457" as cast, and weighs 479.2 grains from my mould.
It is dedicated to grease-groove lube and BP in .45-70 rifles, and 1000-yard muzzleloader work at 1300 fps MV.
Amen.
I expect it will be similarly good in 20:1 alloy.
I have 45 pounds of certified 20:1 alloy on the way.
I want to try the PH in 20:1 and hope for about 480-gr weight and PC-paint it and size it to .458".
Then try it with a smokeless "pistol powder" to see if it will shoot well in a .458"-grooved or even a .459"-grooved .458 WM,
at about 1300 fps and 3.340" COL.
Surely a fast smokeless powder will bump it up.
The advantage is not having to swab the BP fouling.
Hopefully the PC paint will prevent lead fouling.

A 480-gr PH at 1300 fps should Bagwell.
So should a 450-gr TSX at 2450 fps.

NECG finally got the M98 3-pos wing safety from across the pond and fulfilled their backorders.
My "Big Ugly" project has the needed parts now, and has been renamed "Old Fugly" in honor of Phil Shoemaker's "Old Ugly" the .458 WinMag.













Old Fugly should be great with the 250-grainers and birdshot capsule loads.
Her saving grace is that she has the original SAAMI .458 WinMag throat,
barrel was not set back when re-chambered to .458 Lott.
She is a .458 Lott "Like Jack Built," and not the SAAMI .458 Lott with short and tight throat.

Busy, busy, busy, Sir Ron, "The Crusade" never sleeps.

I can’t wait to get home and burn some rounds thru my 458... been watching this for a month and have too many danged ideas.

LOL, jump on it with both boots Main, i have some load data if you want to step on the 500's, iirc 2360 fps with 500gr Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammer solids after Sir Ron converted mine back to muzzle velocity, who would have thought possible from the 458 Win Mag+?

Didn't read the thread but the 458 is a grand cartridge and very versatile with hand loading. I have only shot jack rabbits through deer and hogs with one but there is no mistake when you hit something with a 458. I shot a lot of half jacket 350 gr. 458 bullets and some cast. The lighter jacketed bullets are pretty much all around as long as you stay away from the pistol or 45-70 bullets unless loaded down. The 458 got a bad rap when it didn't initially meet advertised velocities and then an even worse reputation when bullets would creep from the heavily compressed loads. Rumors spread rapidly when this occurred during elephant culling operations. In one situation the culler was atop an ele when it came to and the rifle jammed. This is cause for some quick thinking or a pair of pampers. The guy came out all right and from then on put a finisher shot on even moribund elephant.

Ha! That sounds like a hellacious load!

I have a couple boxes of the 250 grain Hornady Monoflexs that’re sorta like a Barnes. I was contemplating shooting them out mine as quick as I could. Might be fun for “stopping” them deer around here! Ha!

LOL, damn! RL-7, H-322 or either 4198 is your huckleberry for lightweight speed demons.

Sir Jerry,
Absolutely ! The Crusade for Truth, like doing good, ain't got no end.

beretzs,
You have potential for Winchester Knighthood in the Crusade for Truth.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I’ll be getting it up to hunting speed soon as I can. I like the 45 calibers. Just fun rifles and pretty versatile as well with cast Bullets.

This is/has been an excellent thread.