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Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Boomer454] #15884904 03/10/21
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Idaho_Shooter Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Boomer454
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter

So the "shall not murder" is more of a law meant to protect society, than it is a moral obligation? (Not directed at anyone in particular.)

I wouldn't put it that way. If you look at animals, they might often fight over food, mates, territory or rank, but these fights rarely end fatally when all participants are of the same species.


BLM stallions reportedly kill foals in the herd. Grizzly boars are renown for killing and eating cubs if Momma can not protect them.

I would bet other examples abound beyond my personal knowledge base.

Perhaps that means Mother Nature actually meant for us to retroactively abort problematic teenagers.


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
BP-B2

Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #15884913 03/10/21
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
I reject your definition. The correct definition is much simpler, and most land vertebrates, for example fit the definition.

Your definition of murder is screwy, too. Because something is sentient doesn't mean that it's murder to take its life. Murder means to, without justification, kill a human being. Has nothing to do with non-human beings.

Apparently, you are no fan of Science Fiction.


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Caplock] #15884924 03/10/21
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Originally Posted by Caplock
I'm thinking those here using sentient are really discussing whether the animals in question are sapient.

Valid point. And accurate.


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15884962 03/10/21
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Young, strong lion drives the Pride lion out, kills every one of the cubs in the Pride. Makes the lioness’ come into heat, so they carry on his genes. They’ve actually observed similar behaviour among feral cat populations.

Nature is rough. No room for sentimentality, whether sentient or not.

Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: SamOlson] #15884998 03/10/21
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Originally Posted by SamOlson
Yeah man, the new mini beast is alright but I'm slow to warm up to her. She's my wife's little terrorist...lol


I'm laying here on the couch with the little 15 year old devil maltese/poodle dog.

We are buddies, gonna be hard when he goes but at least he's old and not in his prime.


You are super tuned into your pack!

I try to think more like a dog after reading your observations. Thanks man.




I thought the new dog was male.
I'm sorry man
My bad
What is her name.


Baylor is a ladies man dog big time.
When the daughter and wife are home he is with them.
Funny when both leave .
They bring him down to me
Then I gotta watch him fret and do nascar laps crying.
Then comes the 2 or 3 cries right in front of me and the hound howl of my women left me.
Then its I'm a toy poddle and getting in your lap mode.

Let him and Blackjack out couple times.
Baylor goes into watch how fast I can run and direction ckamge mode.
Then its him and Blackjack cruise patrol the fenceline and lets fugg with neighbor dogs and tease them time.



Dogs and Humans evolved together.
Alotta people dont see that connection.

I cant imagine not realizing that like many people.

One of my earliest memories I was probably 4 or 5 at the most.
At a park in one of those sit in chair swings and a grey med sized dog with curly hair going back and forth happily barking at me .
Dad took me outta the swing and that dog went into slobber hound mode kissing me wagging its tail and I was laughing the entire time.

We got a pup full size collie male Lassie when I was 7 in 1970
Begging my parents for a pup.
My dog..
And I took care of him unlike most kids leaving on the parents

I went 8 yrs without a dog 85 to 93
Single soldier in the army traveling the planet
Lassie died in 85 while I was at Ft Carson.
Last time I seen him was Dec 83 to Jan 84 after 11 series OSUT when I was home on leave before I went to Carson.

Me and Khan got a Female black lab pup Sonja and a white hemmingway extra claws kitten Elmo in late 93 bout 6 months after we got married.
Them 2 are buried out front also along with all the others.
Sweetheart, Rico, Cookie, Sonja dogs

Elmo, Simba, Sampson Cats


All 3 daughters have dogs.
Lindsey has Baylor hound mix
Alexis has Hope and Tucker border collies
Nicole has Brady red bone coon hound.

They were raised with pups that became their growing up dogs.
Now they have their 1st dogs of their own.

Khan had dogs growing up on the rez up home.







Last edited by renegade50; 03/10/21.

Liberal Socialist Democrats and their voters are a bane to this Nation.
IC-A

Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: ledvm] #15885000 03/10/21
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Originally Posted by slumlord



You eat dogs and cats?



No one ever said Rover can't be man's
best friend and the main course at the
the same time ..

[Linked Image from media4.giphy.com]






-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15885056 03/10/21
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8 weeks old, first or second day at our house.

Surprised the scheidt out of himself. Not sure about "sentient", but he for sure knew he was looking at another puppy:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

renegade, Dandee is like your new one. Momma's dog. I'm his playmate, along with Breeze. He will sit out here on nice days watching the road that the "food lady" just drove off on her way to town. If it's not nice out, he's on the sofa looking out the picture window.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Sentient or not, animals are food for something or other. Sometimes for me. And I appreciate them for it.


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: renegade50] #15885076 03/10/21
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Life would be lame without dogs!


I'd never eat dog but wouldn't have a problem bbq-ing a fricken horse....lol



New dog is Goldie with a y, aka Goldy on her tag.

Musta been into the cheeba when I ordered...lol

Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: SamOlson] #15885243 03/10/21
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Idaho_Shooter Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SamOlson
Life would be lame without dogs!


I'd never eat dog but wouldn't have a problem bbq-ing a fricken horse....lol



New dog is Goldie with a y, aka Goldy on her tag.

Musta been into the cheeba when I ordered...lol

Nothing wrong with that Sam. But I am opposite.

I have had a few really great stock dogs. They can save hours getting mavericks out of the brush pockets instead of tying the horse and crawling in on your hands and knees.

But I never had a dog carry my tired ass off a mountain when I was too exhausted to put one foot in front of another, the reigns tied around the saddle horn because it's too dark to see the trail, during the parts when the eyes are even open.

I do not enjoy it, but I can shoot any dog and put him in a hole when the time comes. But it flat hurts when I have to put a good horse down.


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: renegade50] #15885322 03/10/21
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Originally Posted by renegade50

2 bites .
I regret that to this day.
Hate that I did it actually.


Saw dog on the menu in Shanghai. Knew I'd never be able to look my dog in they eye if I ate it.

The mt. lion was pretty damn good. Had the back strap. Was like a mix between veal and pork. Some of the best game meat I've ever eaten.

IC-B

Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15885328 03/10/21
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Does going down on a bitch count as eating dog or cat?




Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: MtnBoomer] #15885329 03/10/21
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Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Does going down on a bitch count as eating dog or cat?



I always figured on trying it over and over to make sure.


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: SamOlson] #15885340 03/10/21
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Originally Posted by SamOlson
Life would be lame without dogs!


I'd never eat dog but wouldn't have a problem bbq-ing a fricken horse....lol



New dog is Goldie with a y, aka Goldy on her tag.

Musta been into the cheeba when I ordered...lol



This old fella (16 years and a month in that pic) and I had an agreement. We were running buddies, drinking buddies. My first dog of my own, not a family dog.

I agreed to feed him, give him a nice place to sleep, take him most everywhere with me (including the bar), make sure he had paid health care (he was a free pup, but I figure by the end of his life he cost me a good $3K in stitches etc) and in general a life befitting a dog of his ilk.

His end of it was if we were ever out in the woods, starving and freezing to death in a blizzard, I was gonna eat his bones and wear that nice fur coat of his........................and not vice-versa.

He lived a good long life and we never got stuck in that blizzard I'm happy to say.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Last edited by Valsdad; 03/10/21.

The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Happy_Camper] #15885371 03/10/21
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Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
..........................
Of COURSE animals have emotions.
Of COURSE they have memories, perceptions and senses.
They experience sensation and are undou tedly conscious.
Even the dumb squirrels and ants prepare for the future .

Ever read a Bible or spend time outside as a child?
These are facts that a young child should know unless some uber "intelligent" philosophy professor has driven it from him.


Do you have a copy of this that you could send me - I think I've misplaced mine:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Thanks

Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15885406 03/10/21
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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Other than Man, of course.

First we need a working definition of sentient. Hell, I just read that mollusks and arthropods are considered sentient by some as well as fish and mammals.

One of our esteemed members recently stated that elephants and cetacians are likely sentient.

So back to the definition:
Self aware, of course. But what does that mean? How is it measured?
Aware that decisions today will affect your life tomorrow? Aware that decisions today will affect the life of your progeny?

The ability to abandon a learned but non-productive behavior? My cow will stop coming to the barn when I call her if I quit feeding her treats there.

I have heard that "knowledge of approaching time of death" is indicative of sentience. There is evidence that elephants recognize the approach of death and migrate to a location reserved for that.

Most humans recognize that to kill a sentient being, other than in defense of self or others is murder.

Which critters must we remove from the menu?


Not if they are really annoying it isn't.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15885421 03/11/21
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Damn, it's almost like some people think humans aren't animals! For phucqk's sake - that is hilarious.




Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: MtnBoomer] #15885424 03/11/21
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Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Damn, it's almost like some people think humans aren't animals! For phucqk's sake - that is hilarious.



That is a given...it is the sentient bit that is up for debate.


I am not actually sure it applies to all of humanity, not so much self awareness...more awareness outside of self.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: SamOlson] #15886040 03/11/21
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Originally Posted by SamOlson
Originally Posted by renegade50
Dogs...
Have a soul and mind.
I dont care what the Bible says contrary about it either.
Most of the Bible and all it's spinoff series have been edited, cut, copied, pasted to suit those who wanted it that way for their own means and needs for 2k+ yrs anyways.



It's been about a year since I lost by dog brother Whitey.

As he lay slowly dying of cancer I layed down with him one last time to say goodbye before my parent's took him to the vet.


He looked me in the eye and made his sly smile, I'll never forget the look in his eye.

He still had that mischievous twinkle just like when he was a pup but he knew it was the end of the trail.


Damnit now I'm crying thinking back on it.


i have adopted probably in the mid teens golden retrievers
I just lost my ol pal max a couple of weeks ago.l
he was a refugee from oklahoma, got him at about one year, was 13 when he died.
subject to seizures the whole time.
I could see it in his eyes, we both knew. that night i didn't hear his uneasy breathing, he had passed while laying out with his head on his paws. God, i miss every one of them, hope they are waiting for me.


THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15886100 03/11/21
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I think one thing that distinguishes humans is that they have the ability to think about their own thought process. I think we're alone in that regard.

Re: Is any animal sentient? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15886115 03/11/21
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MIL came up for a visit and brought their new wheaten scottie pup, Gilly. Our 5 year old Airedale, Freya, is jealous as hell of the attention the pup is getting. It's been interesting watching the interaction over a couple of days.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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