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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Just Think of The Sacrifice. You mean God sacrificing himself, to himself, to create a loophole for rules he created?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Satan is an agent of God, according to Judaism. . Yes rather different to the Satan Christians have fabricated. bottom line is God planned that there would be such a fallen angel for he had a task in mind.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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Just Think of The Sacrifice. He rode into Jerusalem knowing full well what kind of fate was awaiting Him. He stood against the injustice of the Roman empire and the hypocrisy of the Jewish religious leaders. His life wasn’t ‘taken’ from Him; He gave it. He wasn’t dragged kickin’ and screamin’ to his scourging, or His crucifixion. He went willingly, to both. He was tough as nails.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Just Think of The Sacrifice. He rode into Jerusalem knowing full well what kind of fate was awaiting Him. He stood against the injustice of the Roman empire and the hypocrisy of the Jewish religious leaders. His life wasn’t ‘taken’ from Him; He gave it. He wasn’t dragged kickin’ and screamin’ to his scourging, or His crucifixion. He went willingly, to both. He was tough as nails. As someone said here a while back, He would have done It for me, if I was the only one, I love The lord Jesus, He Love me first.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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I don't know what all the Deity allows vs. assists. ..
So as Christian you still think theres possibility Pagan gods provided divine assistance to the ambitions of Rome? And to be honest you don't really know if there was divine intervention on behalf of Israel. We can conclude: You know no more about Israel than you do about Rome concerning divine intervention. If there wasn't divine intervention I cannot come up with any other reasonable explanation. I believe the Jews were punished mightily during their centuries long dispersion all over the world as a lesson to them and the world. This culminated in the bloody 20th century with 3 final solutions attempted in the space of 20 years by 3 powerful enemies. First the Germans, next the British in Palestine, and finally by the combined forces of the Moslem nations representing millions and millions of blood thirsty Arabs. Tell me how a bunch of ill equipped but very determined refugees were able to throw the combined Moslem armies into confusion and rout them without Divine help. There is nothing like it in the history of the world. I was 14 years old when the 67 war broke out. We listened to the dire news from the Middle East every night. It was going to be a bloodbath. The U.S. did not have time or ability to send help or material. Next thing we .knew Israel had destroyed Syria's Russian air for force and captured the Egyptian Army. They were headed to Cairo to finish off the Egyptians when the U.S. and Russia reined them in. Now for this present time the Jewish nation no larger than some U.S. counties prospers among enemies. They have delivery systems for their nuclear weapons which all the world knows they will use, Jews control the finance of the world. The situation as it exists today was prophesied over 2000 years ago. Now you tell me how a miniscule fraction of the world human population came into the position they are in. All that said you will not tell what you believe about the creation of our universe. It is not my business but if you would be so kind please tell us. I can assure you I will be respectful as I admit I don't know it all, not even close.
Last edited by Hastings; 03/27/21. Reason: spelling correction
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I don't know what all the Deity allows vs. assists. ..
So as Christian you still think theres possibility Pagan gods provided divine assistance to the ambitions of Rome? And to be honest you don't really know if there was divine intervention on behalf of Israel. We can conclude: You know no more about Israel than you do about Rome concerning divine intervention. If there wasn't divine intervention I cannot come up with any other reasonable explanation. I believe the Jews were punished mightily during their centuries long dispersion all over the world as a lesson to them and the world. This culminated in the bloody 20th century with 3 final solutions attempted in the space of 20 years by 3 powerful enemies. First the Germans, next the British in Palestine, and finally by the combined forces of the Moslem nations representing millions and millions of blood thirsty Arabs. Tell me how a bunch of ill equipped but very determined refugees were able to throw the combined Moslem armies into confusion and rout them without Divine help. There is nothing like it in the history of the world. I was 14 years old when the 67 war broke out. We listened to the dire news from the Middle East every night. It was going to be a bloodbath. The U.S. did not have time or ability to send help or material. Next thing we .knew Israel had destroyed Syria's Russian air for force and captured the Egyptian Army. They were headed to Cairo to finish off the Egyptians when the U.S. and Russia reined them in. Now for this present time the Jewish nation no larger than some U.S. counties prospers among enemies. They have delivery systems for their nuclear weapons which all the world knows they will use, Jews control the finance of the world. The situation as it exists today was prophesied over 2000 years ago. Now you tell me how a miniscule fraction of the world human population came into the position they are in. All that said you will not tell what you believe about the creation of our universe. It is not my business but if you would be so kind please tell us. I can assure you I will be respectful as I admit I don't know it all, not even close. ...or, if everyone you have met in the past two thousand years hates your guts there may be a chance that you are the problem.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Outfitter
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We can conclude: You know no more about Israel than you do about Rome concerning divine intervention.
If there wasn't divine intervention I cannot come up with any other reasonable explanation... How much have you read up on 1947-1949 Palestine war and 1967 Six Day War? This culminated in the bloody 20th century with 3 final solutions attempted in the space of 20 years by 3 powerful enemies. First the Germans, next the British in Palestine, and finally by the combined forces of the Moslem nations representing millions and millions of blood thirsty Arabs. Tell me how a bunch of ill equipped but very determined refugees were able to throw the combined Moslem armies into confusion and rout them without Divine help...
There were not millions and millions of Moslem combatants in 1947-1949 or 1967 Six Day War.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Outfitter
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If there wasn't divine intervention I cannot come up with any other reasonable explanation...
I don't consider Mossad hiring and training WW2 Nazis such as Hitler's right hand man kommando SS-ObersturmbannführerOtto Skorzeny as divine intervention...LoL. From what I understand an intel network which included very talented post war Nazis under the leadership of Reinhard Ghelen were able to assist Israel to conduct a very effective pre-emptive strike on the airforces of Egypt and Syria. There is nothing like it in the history of the world
there are numerous claims through the ages since antiquity, that attribute victory to divine will and intervention. You still won't say if you consider it possible that Pagan gods divinely assisted the ambitions of 8th century BC Latin tribes of Rome.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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CCCC, ..I believe Ace is a grown man that doesn't need you to answer for him each time. You need to get over your hurt and resentment if you want to be a better Christian...but I do understand the inherent sickness and weakness of Christians might prevent such. - realize that all men fall short, are weak in some ways - and that the Omnipresence of God is not always felt or realized by mortal little humans..
Perhaps Ace was correct and God was not present.It's not like you can prove Omnipresence. just reading about it somewhere doesn't automatically make it true. Starfool - you have lost it down there in the dark. You are the silly goose that introduced Omnipresence to the discussion and, of course, Aces is a great fellow and fully capable. But you need reminding that in an open forum your silly blunders are fair game for comment - by anyone - and it is fun to pull your chain. Certainly I could use any good help, so your goofy comments about how one can be a better Christian are priceless - as in priceless means useless. Bed time - close the lid.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Unfortunately for cccc he bruises easily and heals very slowly...and his posts have degraded to juvenile nonsensical rants.
Re: Omnipresence , I've heard it claimed many times by Christians , so it is relevant to the discussion , especially when a believer says he can't detect the presence of God in church groups.
either God is present and Ace is unable to detect such ....or Omnipresence is a myth.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Unfortunately for cccc he bruises easily and heals very slowly...and his posts have degraded to juvenile nonsensical rants. Re: Omnipresence , I've heard it claimed many times by Christians , so it is relevant to the discussion , especially when a believer says he can't detect the presence of God in church groups. either God is present and Ace is unable to detect such ....or Omnipresence is a myth.
If you want to say it is none of our business I understand, but I asked you to tell us what force do you believe created the universe. We know it extends way beyond our imaginations and contains unknowable energy and matter. If it was the big bang, where did that energy and matter originate? If you wish to say "I don't know", well that puts you in the same place I am. I am just going with the evidence I see of some outside force dealing with us and occasionally intervening. I have no idea whether or not the Pagans, Buddhists, Moslems, Hindus, etc. all perceive the same super natural power I see dealing with the Hebrew people. Again, please share with us what you believe.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Tell me how a bunch of ill equipped but very determined refugees were able to throw the combined Moslem armies into confusion and rout them without Divine help.
😂 Or, one could look at the Iran-Iraq war and compare/contrast with the gulf war and come to the realization that Arabs suck at war. Like, really, REALLY suck. It's a cultural thing. 😉
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Tell me how a bunch of ill equipped but very determined refugees were able to throw the combined Moslem armies into confusion and rout them without Divine help.
😂Or, one could look at the Iran-Iraq war and compare/contrast with the gulf war and come to the realization that Arabs suck at war. Like, really, REALLY suck. It's a cultural thing. 😉 You are absolutely right about Arabs, but when they attacked the new state of Israel was barely organized and it is a hard thing to beat overwhelming force even with excellent military leadership. Witness the battle of the Little Bighorn where well led, well armed troops were over run by stone age savages. Arabs are not much against the Western or Big Asian powers but the infant state of Israel was almost in a helpless condition in 1948 except for the Hebrews knowing surrender was death, and then I admit there was the Arab penchant for retreat.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Tell me how a bunch of ill equipped but very determined refugees were able to throw the combined Moslem armies into confusion and rout them without Divine help.
😂Or, one could look at the Iran-Iraq war and compare/contrast with the gulf war and come to the realization that Arabs suck at war. Like, really, REALLY suck. It's a cultural thing. 😉 You are absolutely right about Arabs, but when they attacked the new state of Israel was barely organized and it is a hard thing to beat overwhelming force even with excellent military leadership. Witness the battle of the Little Bighorn where well led, well armed troops were over run by stone age savages. Arabs are not much against the Western or Big Asian powers but the infant state of Israel was almost in a helpless condition in 1948 except for the Hebrews knowing surrender was death, and then I admit there was the Arab penchant for retreat. I've fought Arabs. We will have to agree to disagree.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Tell me how a bunch of ill equipped but very determined refugees were able to throw the combined Moslem armies into confusion and rout them without Divine help.
😂Or, one could look at the Iran-Iraq war and compare/contrast with the gulf war and come to the realization that Arabs suck at war. Like, really, REALLY suck. It's a cultural thing. 😉 You are absolutely right about Arabs, but when they attacked the new state of Israel was barely organized and it is a hard thing to beat overwhelming force even with excellent military leadership. Witness the battle of the Little Bighorn where well led, well armed troops were over run by stone age savages. Arabs are not much against the Western or Big Asian powers but the infant state of Israel was almost in a helpless condition in 1948 except for the Hebrews knowing surrender was death, and then I admit there was the Arab penchant for retreat. Little Bighorn....well armed and well lead? Both of those are debatable. The Springfields in the hands of Custer's men that day experienced serious extraction issues, nor did that lead element have sufficient ammo, hence the note to Benteen to "Bring Packs, P.S Bring Packs", i.e. bring up the ammo because we are going to need it, and of course they never arrived in time. As for being "well lead", Custer was a horrible leader. He graduated last in his class at WestPoint and and had more men die under his leadership than any one else similarly situated in the entire Civil War. Custer was a terrible leader out for his own glory who under estimated his enemy and got got him men killed in the process....but I digress
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Tell me how a bunch of ill equipped but very determined refugees were able to throw the combined Moslem armies into confusion and rout them without Divine help.
😂Or, one could look at the Iran-Iraq war and compare/contrast with the gulf war and come to the realization that Arabs suck at war. Like, really, REALLY suck. It's a cultural thing. 😉 You are absolutely right about Arabs, but when they attacked the new state of Israel was barely organized and it is a hard thing to beat overwhelming force even with excellent military leadership. Witness the battle of the Little Bighorn where well led, well armed troops were over run by stone age savages. Arabs are not much against the Western or Big Asian powers but the infant state of Israel was almost in a helpless condition in 1948 except for the Hebrews knowing surrender was death, and then I admit there was the Arab penchant for retreat. Little Bighorn....well armed and well lead? Both of those are debatable. The Springfields in the hands of Custer's men that day experienced serious extraction issues, nor did that lead element have sufficient ammo, hence the note to Benteen to "Bring Packs, P.S Bring Packs", i.e. bring up the ammo because we are going to need it, and of course they never arrived in time. As for being "well lead", Custer was a horrible leader. He graduated last in his class at WestPoint and and had more men die under his leadership than any one else similarly situated in the entire Civil War. Custer was a terrible leader out for his own glory who under estimated his enemy and got got him men killed in the process....but I digress Don't have time now, but when I get back from church I'll make a comment or two about Little Bighorn. I understand that Custer made some Terrible mistakes that day. I've been there 4 times. He could have prevailed.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Ranger
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Unfortunately for cccc he bruises easily and heals very slowly...and his posts have degraded to juvenile nonsensical rants. Re: Omnipresence , I've heard it claimed many times by Christians , so it is relevant to the discussion , especially when a believer says he can't detect the presence of God in church groups. either God is present and Ace is unable to detect such ....or Omnipresence is a myth. In short - you seem to have convinced yourself that you can read the minds and feelings of others, and the reality is that you don't even know crap. Does that reality give you some comfort? You can do all of the name-calling and personal attacking you need - although ineffective and puerile, that seems to be what saves your psyche, and most folks here are onto you anyway. Now, your comments about God - I have no view on that behavior. I think that God does.
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