|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,960 Likes: 23
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,960 Likes: 23 |
Whatever you think of his ideas, watching that guy is truly Death of a Thousand Cuts.
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,799 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,799 Likes: 11 |
I am of the thought that if what a fellow is doing is legal, and fits his personal ethics, he can hunt anyway he wants. That said, if there are problems with long range hunters, where is the empirical data showing that folks are not doing it right? Aside from personal opinion and projecting your bias for/against hunting at a distance, where are the facts to back up your thoughts?
Sam......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,311
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,311 |
I think most of the long range shots taken by unpracticed dolts wind up in the dirt. Sadly they do connect on occasion, further encouraging themselves.
“You never need fear a man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.”
Samuel Colt.
�Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.� - Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,646
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,646 |
All I know is, long range for my bow is 40 yards and long range for my 30/30 is 200yds, but I have killed with it at 197, from the prone, iron sights,
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,052
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,052 |
Someone posted this on lr hunting sometime or another...I drive past 3-4 setups like this every year here in PA on the way to my honey hole. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/x8LDSYMF/100-0998.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,080 Likes: 7
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,080 Likes: 7 |
I am of the thought that if what a fellow is doing is legal, and fits his personal ethics, he can hunt anyway he wants. That said, if there are problems with long range hunters, where is the empirical data showing that folks are not doing it right? Aside from personal opinion and projecting your bias for/against hunting at a distance, where are the facts to back up your thoughts? Skybusting is perfectly legal, but may still draw a few well deserved comments on the marsh. In general I agree with your philosophy but context is everything.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,198 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,198 Likes: 6 |
Not long range hunting. It is long distance shooting at live targets. I don't like it and I would not encourage it. I do support and enjoy long range shooting at inanimate targets and have done a bit of it. I do not need a living target to show how well I can shoot. Fifty years ago, I might have been tempted but not today. When I was a kid, my Dad figured, if you could hit a paper plate with your first shot, then you could shoot at game, from that position, at that range. At that time, we both shot a lot and, for Dad especially, that range could be quite a ways out. In 1965, I watched as he killed an antelope, with his first shot from an unsupported sitting position, at 570 of his paces (he was 6' 5" tall so his paces were pretty long). This with his newly acquired Schulz&Larsen 7mm Mag. By the way, I shot my antelope the next day; at about 75 yards. He later said he should have passed on that long shot and figured a way to get closer, as I did.
As far as Randy Selby is concerned, I don't know what his background really is. I think I would be better on You Tube (smarter and better looking) but I haven't done it, have I! GD
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
I am old enough to remember a time when your skill as a hunter was based on how close you could get to your quarry. Me too. In my opinion, I can’t judge people who can do something I can’t. As long as what they do is the legal taking of game, I feel it’s counterproductive to my own privilege to hunt to disparage other hunters. I agree with you too. If you can , and that’s your thing, good for you. My problem with LRS isn’t the guys that can. It’s the guys buying these “1000 yard out of the box” rifles, who can’t shoot 200 yards (and have never practiced at ranges they are taking shots) going hunting with them. And taking shots on game they have no business taking. My opinion. Less worth than 2 cents I suppose. But having the capability to shoot a long ways, and up close, I have input. First, you can't always get close. But I strive to when we can. Sometimes you just run out of cover, wind, time etc... My close shots have been twice at 3 steps. My longest shot a bit over 900. All one shot kills. There is no way I'll even try a shot unless I"m 200% confident. Meaning a lot of times a longer shot is out of the question. But having a calm morning a while back a pig and couple of coyotes between 500 and 1100 were no big deal at all. And I have to please me so your "ethics" don't bother me at all. I'll address shots not to be taken. IMHO there are LOTS of people that never zero their guns. Maybe have em bore sighted. There are lots that never practice. Lots that have no clue where to really aim, couldn't tell you where the vital organs actually are. Can't read and animal for movement possibilities. Lots miss their game at 100 yards. And we don't take those to task? Now yes, building a gun and advertising that anyone can hit at 500 yards or X yards is beyond stupid. It took us years of shooting to be comfortable at 300 and beyond. more years to be comfortable way out there and to KNOW when to and when not to. Lets talk about gunsmiths. I'll argue his fact about knowledge. You really don't have gun knowledge much to build an exceptionally accurate gun. What you do need is to be a really top notch machinist. Our shooting buddy, not knowing anything about gunsmithing, bought equipment. And learned to be a top machinist and he is picky. Half a ten thousandth is always his goal. Not amazingly the time he takes in precision turns out precise guns. The calm morning I spoke of was with one of his guns. So I agree with your thoughts. And especially the fact most aren't capable at 100 or 200 really. But why aren't we harping on them? Thinking odds they have the much larger chance of wounding an animal. If you don't get the things it takes to shoot long range you most likely aren't going to wound, you will totally miss. Selbys use of the word trophy bothers me. All animals are to be treated the same. But I get what he is saying in a way. But on "trophy" animals I put even more care in and much more likely to pass anything remotely iffy vs a meat hunt. If that makes sense. Guess I'll go listen to it again but the first round kind of rattled me a bit. Sure seems to be preaching down and I suppose he gets allowed that. OTOH if we are really worried about getting as close as we can why are we using guns? Isnt' that kind of cheating.... And yes, I hunt with all and anything, though I've never been able to be in a spot comfortable to throw my spear, I still hope that day arrives.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
All I know is, long range for my bow is 40 yards and long range for my 30/30 is 200yds, but I have killed with it at 197, from the prone, iron sights, I know my bow. I know my deer. I know that while I can hit a deer target every time at 100 with my bow, I also know from experience that my deer trouble starts past 17 steps so I know to limit my shots... same thing with anything. Know your limits on a minute by minute basis. There are days when I have a rifle capable well beyond 1000 that I know I wouldn't even try a shot past 200 maybe not even that far.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,594 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,594 Likes: 1 |
The LRF becoming ubiquitous has stomped the life outta an awful lot of 400+yd kill shot stories from the days of yore. I suspect nearly everyone with an LRF has "myth-busted" a story of someone's "long-range" hunting story.
As such, it's hard to listen to Selby say, "Don't do this, because you're not capable, because I know what it takes, because I've actually done it." When in reality, he doesn't really know how far away a vast majority of what he considers his "long-range" kills were.
Depending upon terrain, "Stepping off" yardage may add several football fields vs. a projectiles flight path.........
Mr. Selby may indeed have a wealth of knowledge, but, it's likely to die with him if his presentation method continues to be, "Now you sit right there and I'm gonna tell you how great I am, even though most of what I'm going to tell you isn't provable. Additionally, I'm going to tell you how much I don't want to learn about what's changed since I started and that you absolutely don't know what you're doing."
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,892 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,892 Likes: 12 |
...
Mr. Selby may indeed have a wealth of knowledge, but, it's likely to die with him if his presentation method continues to be, "Now you sit right there and I'm gonna tell you how great I am, even though most of what I'm going to tell you isn't provable. Additionally, I'm going to tell you how much I don't want to learn about what's changed since I started and that you absolutely don't know what you're doing." Old Fartitis 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,810 Likes: 57
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,810 Likes: 57 |
Lotta three legged deer around here come November.
Way more than there used to be.
Not sure if thats because the high speed low drag silly little kevlar jacket for your suppressor crowd or the I am ten and can hunt with "dad" now.
I am MAGA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
I am old enough to remember a time when your skill as a hunter was based on how close you could get to your quarry. Me too. In my opinion, I can’t judge people who can do something I can’t. As long as what they do is the legal taking of game, I feel it’s counterproductive to my own privilege to hunt to disparage other hunters. I agree with you too. If you can , and that’s your thing, good for you. My problem with LRS isn’t the guys that can. It’s the guys buying these “1000 yard out of the box” rifles, who can’t shoot 200 yards (and have never practiced at ranges they are taking shots) going hunting with them. And taking shots on game they have no business taking. My opinion. Less worth than 2 cents I suppose. But having the capability to shoot a long ways, and up close, I have input. First, you can't always get close. But I strive to when we can. Sometimes you just run out of cover, wind, time etc... My close shots have been twice at 3 steps. My longest shot a bit over 900. All one shot kills. There is no way I'll even try a shot unless I"m 200% confident. Meaning a lot of times a longer shot is out of the question. But having a calm morning a while back a pig and couple of coyotes between 500 and 1100 were no big deal at all. And I have to please me so your "ethics" don't bother me at all. I'll address shots not to be taken. IMHO there are LOTS of people that never zero their guns. Maybe have em bore sighted. There are lots that never practice. Lots that have no clue where to really aim, couldn't tell you where the vital organs actually are. Can't read and animal for movement possibilities. Lots miss their game at 100 yards. And we don't take those to task? Now yes, building a gun and advertising that anyone can hit at 500 yards or X yards is beyond stupid. It took us years of shooting to be comfortable at 300 and beyond. more years to be comfortable way out there and to KNOW when to and when not to. Lets talk about gunsmiths. I'll argue his fact about knowledge. You really don't have gun knowledge much to build an exceptionally accurate gun. What you do need is to be a really top notch machinist. Our shooting buddy, not knowing anything about gunsmithing, bought equipment. And learned to be a top machinist and he is picky. Half a ten thousandth is always his goal. Not amazingly the time he takes in precision turns out precise guns. The calm morning I spoke of was with one of his guns. So I agree with your thoughts. And especially the fact most aren't capable at 100 or 200 really. But why aren't we harping on them? Thinking odds they have the much larger chance of wounding an animal. If you don't get the things it takes to shoot long range you most likely aren't going to wound, you will totally miss. Selbys use of the word trophy bothers me. All animals are to be treated the same. But I get what he is saying in a way. But on "trophy" animals I put even more care in and much more likely to pass anything remotely iffy vs a meat hunt. If that makes sense. Guess I'll go listen to it again but the first round kind of rattled me a bit. Sure seems to be preaching down and I suppose he gets allowed that. OTOH if we are really worried about getting as close as we can why are we using guns? Isnt' that kind of cheating.... And yes, I hunt with all and anything, though I've never been able to be in a spot comfortable to throw my spear, I still hope that day arrives. A couple years back I took two first time shooters out to my 500 yd 8" gong. Dialed the scope for them told them hold dead on and carefully squeeze the trigger. They both connected the first time despite having never shot a rifle before. Oh and the rifle was a Savage with a pre-fit barrel I screwed together myself...... kinda blows your theory out of the water.... eh.... lmao
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 563
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 563 |
one thing that leaves me cold about the whole long range hunt is all the crap you have to haul out to the site your hunt will be conducted from. i'm guessing at the minimum a bench along with bags, a set up for your spotter and some kind of weather station. i'm sure the serious ones ( i assume all these guys are serious) also set up range flags they can use as they get the sight picture they want.
i still hunt groundhogs when i go back to the hills in the summer. most of the guys i know who do this don't haul a bench setup and all. depending on conditions, some moving around is needed. most shooting is done using a daypack for a rest , shooting prone.
If you're not having fun; you're not doing it right!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
Lotta three legged deer around here come November.
Way more than there used to be.
. I see the same thing. Nobody brags about them, either, and very few even bother to go look at the spot the animal was standing and check for blood. It's too far to walk and too much trouble.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,594 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,594 Likes: 1 |
one thing that leaves me cold about the whole long range hunt is all the crap you have to haul out to the site your hunt will be conducted from. i'm guessing at the minimum a bench along with bags, a set up for your spotter and some kind of weather station. i'm sure the serious ones ( i assume all these guys are serious) also set up range flags they can use as they get the sight picture they want.
i still hunt groundhogs when i go back to the hills in the summer. most of the guys i know who do this don't haul a bench setup and all. depending on conditions, some moving around is needed. most shooting is done using a daypack for a rest , shooting prone. An awful lot of them don't haul anything more than a pickup-door..... The click to "auto-down" of a power-window has likely substantially effected the coyote populations in some parts of the West. Easier to get the truck whoa'd and the rifle in your hands and ready when you don't have to hold the button or "grasp" crank it down yourself.
Last edited by horse1; 03/29/21.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Lotta three legged deer around here come November.
Way more than there used to be.
Not sure if thats because the high speed low drag silly little kevlar jacket for your suppressor crowd or the I am ten and can hunt with "dad" now. Thats interesting. Because it deals with drop. Drop is a zero issue these days. Windage is the real life issue. I've not seen any more cripples in the states we hunt that I've ever seen. And I can recall seeing them as much as 45 years ago. heck used to be if you listened to older hunters, get a bullet in em an then we'll figure it out....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,207 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,207 Likes: 1 |
Pretty much agree with much of what he said.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 253
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 253 |
Good...piss off...I don't particularly want to know a judgemental cunt like you anyway.
How I or anyone else hunts is none of your fucking business.
Mom, is that you? As for "none of my effing business," I disagree. Slob hunters reflect poorly on all hunters. The voting public outnumber us dramatically. If hunters don't take issue with slob hunters, poachers, etc. then the voting public will. It has happened already in numerous states.
|
|
|
|
|
605 members (1badf350, 10gaugemag, 12344mag, 204guy, 160user, 1beaver_shooter, 57 invisible),
2,429
guests, and
1,320
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,868
Posts18,517,974
Members74,020
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
