Randy Selby has been one of those guys I've enjoyed reading, and watching his videos as he's clearly very knowledgeable. Most of the time I have no issue with statements he makes, and generally agree with him if not completely, then at least in some part.

His take on long range hunting was a bit surprising due to his notable contributions, and history. I'm a little surprised this opinion hasn't ruffled feathers, and sent many snowflakes to their watery grave.

I find myself agreeing with him again for the most part. Though he does paint in broad strokes.

I am old enough to remember a time when your skill as a hunter was based on how close you could get to your quarry.

In my opinion, I can’t judge people who can do something I can’t. As long as what they do is the legal taking of game, I feel it’s counterproductive to my own privilege to hunt to disparage other hunters.

Me too.



I agree with you too. If you can , and that’s your thing, good for you. My problem with LRS isn’t the guys that can. It’s the guys buying these “1000 yard out of the box” rifles, who can’t shoot 200 yards (and have never practiced at ranges they are taking shots) going hunting with them. And taking shots on game they have no business taking.

Agreed! The concept of long range shooting has become really popular to the point where most manufacturers make some sort of rifle catering to it. Its great that the average shooter can get into LRS for less money, but that also means that it’s become a bargain hunter’s market and the stuff that has a proven track record is often out of the price range.

So long as they are not shooting across a paddock at me or mine I don't really care.

My hunting scopes top out at 10x and my best 5 shot groups on 400 yard targets are about 3 1/2 " shooting off of sandbags. Maybe I could do better with a higher power scope with a thinner reticle, but I have never tried with that sort of equipment.

All of my life I've heard and maybe others have heard if you can shoot all of your bullets standing off-hand into a pie plate your good to go on game. [So] I would have to limit my long range shots on game to about 500 yards in the best of field conditions, assuming I could get perfectly braced off of a tree trunk or something solid. I would take a shot like that on game if my position was holding a steady sight picture, and it was a calm day. If I couldn't completely settle the reticle or it was a windy day, no way I would pull the trigger.

I don't really have a problem with people who know their rifle and loads and experienced practicing at the distances they are shooting at game. Whatever distance can they consistently hit pie plates

I've learned that some loads will shoot real tight at 100 yards and then open up in a large scatter of 10" groups at 300 or 400 yards, that's why I have to test the loads at distance.

I'm not for people shooting long range game if they are just assuming because their load did 1" groups @ 100 that it will do 8" groups @ 800 because it probably won't.

As long as they are proficient and legal, I sure don't have a problem with it.

Probably 1/4 of the hunters out there shouldn't be taking even 100 yard shots.

This. Some want the game at any cost, even if it requires no hunting skill and only shooting skill.

Some would love to be able to do the job with a drone.

There will be hunters and there will be shooters.

He makes some good points in most of his videos but he seems to be a real blow hard

It’s a fad for Instagram selfies. It didn’t matter 25 years ago and doesn’t matter today. The 6.5CM made everyone a 1,000 yd super sniper expert tacticool flatbrim matching camo monkey suit woke ass conservationist

"We have people".......who? Who is building rifles and cutting into his business? Is he shi tting on Gunwerks? Who knows, this homeless looking old codger doesn't have the nuts to say.


I'd listen to Caylen Wojcik before this clown.


He is probably disgusted by people using a scenar bullet to kill [bleep]. Plus the guy seems to be hung up on cold showers...odd. He think 4-500 yes is as far as people should shoot at game? What gives him the right to shoot that far? I think that's way to far for some ol boomer like him to be shooting....let me go make a video b itching about it lol

I made 3:58 sec, the labored breathing, sloth speed thought/speech process tells me i'd fu-king die before he got my rifle built, people put too much thought in the notion ANYONE gives a flying fu-k what they think/know/think they know/believe in, he needs to get on his feet, stfu with the narcissism thoughts overload and get back to work on rifle building.

I agree. Not hunting. Impressive shooting maybe but not hunting. Same could be said of so called primitive weapon systems. Archery meant 30-40 yards was a poke. Muzzleloaders around 100 or so. Times have changed.

I’d love to shoot everything standing broadside at 75 yards like my last deer & first elk. But hunting NW Colorado open country public land shots in our area averaged 300 yards throwing out high & low extremes.

Having to pass on 3 large bulls because of unknown distance & no way to get closer got me more interested in shooting longer. Range & seeing successful hunters with longer range set-ups. I have a deer lung sized rock at my range at home at 490 yards. I don’t own any scoped rifles I can’t hit it with first try. For a thick woods Eastern Hunter it’s hard to relate to 500+ yard shots & for most Western hunters too but precise range readings & dialing scopes that work take the mystery out of longer hunting ranges.

Today’s equipment makes a big difference instead of a maybe 400 yard rangefinder from 15 years ago my Leica easily ranges 1000 yards +. My scope for the 300 Weatherby is a Zeiss 3-15 & the Z800 reticle matches the trajectory out to 800 yards. We practice out to that range shooting off backpacks or other field positions in dodgy wind conditions. So while I still want to shoot them close I know I can hit elk vitals at 600 yards even in challenging field conditions. It isn’t TV show knowledge but real practice.

Most hunters have an effective maximum rage for me it’s 500 yards on Deer & 600 for elk - as long as hunters stick to their own maximums nobody should be upset.

I've watched a handful of his videos in recent years. Some good stuff - but more "holy szchit man, consider joining us in the 21st century".

I assume a grandson or local millennial convinced him that he could monetize these videos while sharing his wealth of knowledge with the world.
The double-edge sword is potentially coming across as entrenched in old-thinking and arrogantly-domineering.

He's accomplished both swimmingly.

Pretty libertarian on these things.
Opinionated as heck, but it's supposed to be a free country. And I don't think there are laws about this.
There are ethical issues, but those are like opinions.

My concerns are animal movement.
Have personally had animals move as the trigger was breaking.
At 80 yards they can't move as much, and finding the exact spot of impact will be easier. (No go pro hero stuff here)


Sure do respect to technical ability of people that can put the first shot
in the vitals at 1000 plus. I can't.

Heck there have been deer killed at 150 that weren't hit where the shot was aimed.

I love the magazine ads showing the prone shooter with a $2000 rifle and a $2000 optic and his trusty spotter prairie-dogging behind him with a $3000 spotting scope. We all hunt like that right?

I am old enough to realize that technology has greatly enhanced ammo, rifles and optics from days of old. I also realize that ballistic calculators and lazer rangefinders are available... and I know how to use them.
I have killed truckloads of game throughout my life and find med-long distance hunting a new challenge and thrill. Of the last fifteen big game animals I have harvested, nine have been over five-hundred yards. All were easily recovered and died within seconds... if not instantly.
I have never wounded and/or lost an animal shot past five hundred yards.

Different strokes for different folks. There’s hunting and there’s shooting, combined to make harvesting.

Some guys consider Road hunting a technique. Others consider sitting in a heated box watching college football sipping hootch a technique.

The long range shooter misses out on something I enjoy. I have turkey hunted in Missouri since 1982 and that's close up business. You can actually feel it in your chest when a tom gobbles. I have also been that close to elk when they bugle and it's the same. Or being a part of what's going on when deer are going about their normal routine. Many other things I'd miss out on unless I've invested my time and efforts into being close. Don't get me wrong, I take great pride in my shooting but it's not the main focus.

I had an electrician working in my shop for me a couple of years ago that told me he shot 2 bucks, we only get to shoot one in Missouri, in the head at 800 yards. He was using a 6.5 creemoor. He explained to me no other caliber could do that. I didn't question him at all. It was his story. I have often wondered how many people are like him that think he's a good hunter.

One of the western states made it illegal to shoot elk, maybe other game, with the big 50 cal. BMG. I read the reason being was too many were being crippled and lost. Paul Harvey used to say that self government won't work without self discipline.

And vice versa.

I've never heard of her.

Some of you younger members might not see the irony in this, not knowing who Selby is.

His experience is worth listening to, though he is sure of himself on some matters that he should probably get back to, he's earned his opinions long before the internet came about.

Lol, You should've went to 4:00!

Look up "blow Hard" in the dictionary and this guys picture is right there.

Heh!

Good ones.

And that is where he stopped.

when i was learning eastern woods hunting from by dad and uncles, i asked about distance shooting and where to hold. the answer i got is that if you are wondering where to hold, you need to get closer.

this wasn't much of a problem, as the only long shots at deer were over pastures. if a deer was 400 yards away, how would you know. most of my hunting is at less than 100 yards.

western hunting has always fascinated us eastern hunters and the impression i have is that only the most expert, wily hunters can be successful.

Kids these days and their dadgum range finders!

Total douche.

Better then me, I made it to 1:25, I much prefer getting to the point or if not, to be entertaining in delivery. He isn't.

Long range hunting starter kit:

1. Flat-bill hat.
2. $4000 package gun with carbon barrel.
3. First focal plane scope.
4. Arca rails on everything.
5. Double arm sleeves tattoos.
6. Big beard.
7. Sitka -or- Kuiu gear outfits.
8. Jacked up monster truck.

Far too many different scenarios for 600yds (or whatever number/range you wish to insert) to be always right or always wrong.

I don't see "long-range" as a tactic, for me, it's a tool in the tool-box. I don't set out on any given day saying "I'm not shooting a critter unless its XX, XXX, or XXXX yds away." Of course, I'm not selling rifles, optics, ammo, or the like. Nor am I filming a show. I'm just hunting because I enjoy it.

This is utter horse schitt perpetrated by gun writer hacks and keyboard commandos. The vast majority of elk killed in Wyoming are killed at a range of less than 100 yards, people even kill them with archery or traditional muzzleloaders, as well as deer and pronghorns. A knowledge of the habits and characteristics of the game animals is very helpful as is knowledge of hunting techniques, but not entirely necessary, total neophytes harvest their animals frequently. IMHO, 99% of hunters do not have the skills necessary to make a shot into the kill zone of an elk or deer at 600 yards and many cant do it at 100. If you want an eye opener, go help out at your local range during "Public Sight-in Days", you will see some pitiful scenes.


Note the flintlock rifle:

LOL!

You forgot the t-shirt that's 2 sizes too small.

I do love the men's small tshirt 🤣

"Don't use a bullet that's not designed for hunting."

A few of the most successful hunters I know use bullets that "weren't designed for hunting."

And I can guarantee this blowhard has never even tried it.

............i've built three rifles since 1969, and a half of one before that...

There are slob hunters of every persuasion.

Bow to extreme long range.

If you keep your shots within your skillset, you KNOW you're not a slob, and your feelings won't be hurt by what others write/think/say.

damn ; ] i thought i'd see 'dink mountainman'

No kidding JDinCO, 'let us not beat around the bush' is one of the commandments i think.

That's a good simple summation & a good statement that should encompass a lot of "hunters".

He does make a lot of generalizations & probably overstates a lot of things & understates others.

He's 100% on target about ego, though. Some LR "hunters" are hunters others aren't; they are just shooters & there's a difference.

If you've ever spent much time around various hunting conventions, you'll soon see that many of the "hunters" are simply & only about kills for bragging rights or for filling up a bucket list of animals.

These are the LR "hunters" that in many cases, give LR hunting a bad name & are some of the people he is referring to.

Others are genuinely really good hunters that have other motivations & have also learned to utilize modern tools to extend their genuine hunting capabilities & I don't see anything wrong with that.

It's wrong when inadequate shooters & "hunters" use LR shooting as a crutch.

I think he does badly underestimate the LR shooting capabilities of a lot of good hunters & shooters today, but in reality, I also think that number of really good shooters is relatively small compared to the numbers that have jumped on that bandwagon & use it as an excuse not to be a hunter.

Money can buy equipment; it can't buy the talent or skill or the ability to capably use it nor the aptitude & skill of being a genuinely good hunter.

Just my view of the world, YMMV.

MM

Selby Rifles - 1,000 yards out of the box!

I'd take a 10k bet that at least 50% of the people that buy a hunting license could not hit a pie plate at 100 yards on their first attempt with their deer rifle.

This is always one of the issues with "freedom" and the question of how to protect one person's rights without stomping on another's.

I shot two chamois in New Zealand: one bouncing along a cliff face while being chased towards me by a helicopter and one from the hovering helicopter. While the range wasn't exactly long and by no means a "hunt", the shots I made were the "trophy", if you will. Both critters are honestly some of my more prouder successes and was A) legal, B) fun, C) a cultural thing and D) a good way to spend the one day I had left in country. It is also a great way to make the anti's hate us even more....which ties into my original point in my first sentence.

I see a lot of similarities with that situation and the current long range craze, and no, I didn't practice those shooting scenarios beforehand. I probably should have, but didn't as it was a last minute opportunity that I hadn't anticipated. I wouldn't have shot though if I wasn't confident in the situation.

You shouldn't shoot animals at long range, but if you do, make sure you buy one of my guns!

All this guy is missing is the big red shoes and squeeky nose. "The real clownsmith"

No bet there, your 50% is optomistic. I have seen many who cant hit a pie plate at 100 yards on SEVERAL attempts. Off a bench.

FYI this video was made 3 years ago.

Agree with him or not, like his delivery or not, Randy Selby has earned thru considerable work and experience the right to his opinion and his ways to share them. He was tutored by Les Bowman in his youth, and much more on his resume
Randy has seen Gunwerks and Best of the West move in just down the road and he probably has a point about what we see on their shows and what ends up on the cutting room floor.
I enjoy watching his Real Gunsmith videos and try to learn from them. I got a kick out of his take on the new PRC chamberings.

http://randyscustomrifles.com/therealgunsmith/

Nothing wrong with "old school", getting that way myself these days.
I like the retro look of his old shop in contrast to the modern CNC machinery of the new gunsmiths.
Whether who is better, new or old, doesn't matter to me.

i appreciate your post. for years, all you read besides the classic old gunwriters, is all about custom equipment and the dangers of wandering out in the western hunting areas. long range has captured the imagination of many.

one skill is dying...off hand shooting with a rifle. at the range i shoot at, it got so bad that extra structure had to be added to ensure bullets stayed in the range.

a couple of places were set up for hunters to shoot at up to 100 yards. hardly anyone uses them. almost all of the people who shoot from field positions are military match shooters and silhouette shooters.

There's a difference between having an appreciation of the old school and being hidebound.

That's 3-1/2 minutes of my life I can never get back.

Having seen some shots taken that shouldn't have been, some animals hit and not recovered because the variables were to great to overcome yes I believe the long range "craze" has led to those kind of things.

I 100% agree with Selby that ego looms large in the long range debate, but that's okay. I love getting pheasants out of a field after other guys fail, and I love catching fish when other guys can't. However, over-hunted fields and crappy fishing spots are not my preference. All too often a long range shot on game is preferred and even sought after. The only reason for that is ego.

The ONLY reason I have one long range rifle is for hunting Axis across The Texas Hill Country. Often times I will be posted up and look across 3 or more hillsides & see them grazing on the leeward side. Range, dial , whack. But never more than 500 yards, personal limit. Otherwise I work into at least within 250-300 yards.

I was at the range one day trying some new loads and a guy sat down at the bench to my right with a new very expensive .338 Lapua sniper rifle. I know it very expensive because he told me what he paid for it. This range only has targets at 25, 50, 100 and 200 yards. We were on the 100 yard range. He told me he was going elk hunting in Colorado on a ranch where you could get some real long shots at elk over 1500 yards. He said all he had to do was get sighted in at 100 yards and when he found the actual actual distance to the elk he'd just adjust the scope for that distance. After he made his first 5 shots letting his barrel cool between shots I looked at his target and he had shot about an 8" group. I moved to a different target to get away from the muzzle blast. Maybe he did better on his second group.

To me there is no reason to shoot game animals at very long range. The animal could move after you fire. It's not like a military sniper who is shooting at enemy soldiers who want to kill him.

While I can’t disagree with the above, I’d offer that might be painting with a pretty broad brush. Folks have also been taking bad shots from as little as 30 yards for a long time - the long range game has had little consequence on general lack of practice or judgement.

I wouldn't hesitate to make a 500 yard shot as long as there were no crosswinds. We shot popup targets at 500 yards in Army basic with our M-14's. The 500 yard mark on the flip up sight was fairly close but we got to use tracers to get on target.

I have a 1,000 yard rifle - inch groups at 300.

The problem isn't the rifle.....

500 is my limit, and then it needs a good rest, game standing broadside, little or no cross wind.

Now, 30 yards my huckleberry.

I've been known to miss a 50 yarder tho...

It wasn't my fault. Really.

I can only afford the beard and maybe the hat, if they sell them at Walmart.

Instant gratification culture is the culprit..
Any of us could go on for days on that theme...

I spend less time worrying about what others are legally doing and more time becoming more proficient and capable with what I’m doing.

Interesting point for me on this topic is What is the bullet designed to do at this range? I've often heard that many game bullets need a minimum velocity to open up properly. That velocity is usually in the area of 1800 to 2000 FPS - again, depending on the bullet construction.

Could you seriously go past 1000 Yards with most normal hunting calibers and and expect good performance from your bullet or will it just be a pencil poke through at best? Do long range hunters consider that?

Not trying to set anyone's knickers on flame - just asking.

The guy is a fuggin idiot! ... i i i i i i i ....arrogant prick. He couldnt hang with a schitload of average guys that hunt mountain to mountain every year in PA.

I was able to make it through a little over six minutes of the video. That's six minutes of my life I wish I had back.

At 81 years....I consider 150 yards long range.....sitting in my box stand with a Mr Heater, a thermos of hot coffee and a good pair of insulated 'shoulder britches' and my .54 Hawken ML rifle....shooting REAL BLACK POWDER!!

I recall that if a fellow was really interested in 'showing off' or proving how good a marksman he/she was that they took a good rifle to Camp Perry Ohio and shot in the National Rifle Matches!!

Nothing like the excitement of having game up close. I like bow hunting during bow season, some bow-hunt year round for that reason.

For the sake of argument let's call any shot over 350 yards long range, even that is far to distant for a great many hunters. Hitting an inanimate object at that distance or 2-3 times that distance is a challenging and fun game. Many people have the skill to repeatedly do it. All that's needed is to accurately know the range, dope the wind and have developed the necessary skills with an accurate rifle.
However, that target lacks the ability to move on it's own. Shooting at big game at long range is, IMHO, completely unethical. No one can predict or control what that animal is going to do between the time the trigger breaks and the bullet reaches the animal. Just one step is enough to turn an otherwise fatal shot into a gut shot and perhaps a lost animal that's going to suffer a miserable death.

To illustrate....
My longest shot at previously unwounded big game was 362 laser measured yards on a rag horn elk. Prior to the shot the elk had been completely stationary and unaware anyone was near. When the trigger broke the cross hairs were perfectly aligned on his chest tight behind the shoulder. By the time the bullet got there he had moved far enough forward that the bullet hit him in the hind leg. Fortunately, he only took a few steps and stopped. The second shot dead centered his heart and dropped him.

There is simply no way to predict an animals movements.

Learn to hunt and close the distance!!

I really enjoy shooting at long range.... at steel targets.
Hunting big game, not varmints I like to stick to 450 yds or less. I grew up using the old point blank range and holdover with a flat shooting cartridge and with the short time span most animals give you to pull off the shot it works and is effective.
I do dial for long range on targets and understand many pull it off with great success big game hunting and I am fine with that.

I agree with all the above. Most hunters couldn't hit a herd of circus tents at 500 yards, yet many are trying flock shooting at 1,000. I had a friend who could take and make the long shots and do it with his 270 WBY Magnum with a #2 contour barrel. I've always had to get close...300 yards on in.

Shoot 'em far as you can, but if you could get closer and don't...you're either lazy or a dumbass, or both.

That guy is an ignorant douche nozzle ! I have let myself start a couple of his videos in the past and never finish them.

good point. some years ago a magazine (i think it was handloader) did a test on just this topic. they took 30 cal 180 gr and tested about 30 of them at different velocities. a lot of the premium bullets had little expansion at range. the velocities started at 2700 and declined 100 fps at a time. the two with the most reliable expansion and weight retention were rem and win roundnose.

sure are alot of opinions on mr selby.you know what they say about opinions.all i know is there are components for building extremely accurate long range rifles as well as optics.that being said the ability of the equipment is only one factor in shooting long range let alone hunting long range.some of the keyboard wizards on here make mr selby out to be a arrogant blow hard or big mouth.well i own rifles custom built for many applications.all of them capable of extreme accuracy.bottom line is this man has forgotten more than alot of you could learn over many years.as others have stated when you are shooting at any game animal you need to know what you are doing with all variables involved.hunting is a serious responsibility and knowing your limitations is most important.yes mr selby has a hard opinion.after building rifles for over 5 decades and having hunted longer than that i think hes entitled.most of you who criticize him are probably young and cant help it.i limit myself to 4 to 500 yards anymore dependent on game,conditions and calibre.i also start at 30 caliber when hunting elk or larger game.especially in grizz territory.

I found Mr. Selby's delivery style far more tolerable than most of the mindless criticism he received in the last 8 pages of this thread. No doubt he has hard opinions, repeats himself frequently, and lacks the instant appeal that is so critical of today's consumers of social media.

What he stated early in his presentation (and what is missing from most of the conversation to follow) is that we need to respect the game animal enough to not make anything less than the most ethical killing shot. Far too many so-called "hunters" seem willing to take whatever shot available to them. I would suggest that, the bigger the antlers/horns/whatever, the more likely it is that a risky shot will be taken.

He's right about the amount of editing that goes into sport hunting shows. You're not getting the privilege of watching a gut-shot ram or bull that took a step between the moment the gun was shot and when the bullet arrived 850 yards later.

I've lost some friendships over poor hunting ethics. I don't want to be friends with a man who can't understand the ethic that taking a life demands that we do so as humanely. as possible.

You ever thought about writing a book?

Please define "as possible".
Is it simply a bullet's time of flight factor for you? If so then that's fine but I think an important point is that the further out a critter is---the less chance they know you're there (in theory at least) and the calmer they will be. If you've got an animal close by in your crosshairs right when the wind swirls (yes, I know this can happen at several hundred yards too), the animal can instantly bolt and if you don't have the reaction time to let off the trigger bad things can happen, so that's another consideration. BTDT, though I admit it is a somewhat rare situation. One raghorn bull I accidentally headshot at about 75 yards is a perfect example of this, where I just got lucky but could have just as easily gut shot him. When I am dealing with swirling breezes (read: not necessarily winds), there are situations where I actually prefer animals to be at least 200-250 yards away if not more for this reason, though though I do enjoy having them closer.

There's lots and lots of ways to look at hunting ethics.

I won't argue with your point of some people taking any shot given, nor the bigger thread gripe about unpracticed long range hunters taking irresponsible shots. That is absolutely not a practice I would endorse.

I am hoping he has thought about taking an English class, but something tells me that is your point.

When did Caylen fall from grace?

Good...piss off...I don't particularly want to know a judgemental cunt like you anyway.

How I or anyone else hunts is none of your fucking business.

🤣🤣🤣 I was headed there.

That old man sure knows how to throw sand in a gal’s vajayjay, don’t he? What a bunch of crying and squealing! 😂😂😂

Whatever you think of his ideas, watching that guy is truly Death of a Thousand Cuts.

I am of the thought that if what a fellow is doing is legal, and fits his personal ethics, he can hunt anyway he wants. That said, if there are problems with long range hunters, where is the empirical data showing that folks are not doing it right? Aside from personal opinion and projecting your bias for/against hunting at a distance, where are the facts to back up your thoughts?

I think most of the long range shots taken by unpracticed dolts wind up in the dirt. Sadly they do connect on occasion, further encouraging themselves.

All I know is, long range for my bow is 40 yards and long range for my 30/30 is 200yds, but I have killed with it at 197, from the prone, iron sights,

Someone posted this on lr hunting sometime or another...I drive past 3-4 setups like this every year here in PA on the way to my honey hole.

Skybusting is perfectly legal, but may still draw a few well deserved comments on the marsh. In general I agree with your philosophy but context is everything.

Not long range hunting. It is long distance shooting at live targets. I don't like it and I would not encourage it. I do support and enjoy long range shooting at inanimate targets and have done a bit of it. I do not need a living target to show how well I can shoot. Fifty years ago, I might have been tempted but not today. When I was a kid, my Dad figured, if you could hit a paper plate with your first shot, then you could shoot at game, from that position, at that range. At that time, we both shot a lot and, for Dad especially, that range could be quite a ways out. In 1965, I watched as he killed an antelope, with his first shot from an unsupported sitting position, at 570 of his paces (he was 6' 5" tall so his paces were pretty long). This with his newly acquired Schulz&Larsen 7mm Mag. By the way, I shot my antelope the next day; at about 75 yards. He later said he should have passed on that long shot and figured a way to get closer, as I did.
As far as Randy Selby is concerned, I don't know what his background really is. I think I would be better on You Tube (smarter and better looking) but I haven't done it, have I! GD

My opinion. Less worth than 2 cents I suppose.

But having the capability to shoot a long ways, and up close, I have input.

First, you can't always get close. But I strive to when we can. Sometimes you just run out of cover, wind, time etc...

My close shots have been twice at 3 steps. My longest shot a bit over 900. All one shot kills.

There is no way I'll even try a shot unless I"m 200% confident. Meaning a lot of times a longer shot is out of the question.

But having a calm morning a while back a pig and couple of coyotes between 500 and 1100 were no big deal at all. And I have to please me so your "ethics" don't bother me at all.

I'll address shots not to be taken. IMHO there are LOTS of people that never zero their guns. Maybe have em bore sighted. There are lots that never practice. Lots that have no clue where to really aim, couldn't tell you where the vital organs actually are. Can't read and animal for movement possibilities. Lots miss their game at 100 yards. And we don't take those to task?

Now yes, building a gun and advertising that anyone can hit at 500 yards or X yards is beyond stupid. It took us years of shooting to be comfortable at 300 and beyond. more years to be comfortable way out there and to KNOW when to and when not to.

Lets talk about gunsmiths. I'll argue his fact about knowledge. You really don't have gun knowledge much to build an exceptionally accurate gun. What you do need is to be a really top notch machinist. Our shooting buddy, not knowing anything about gunsmithing, bought equipment. And learned to be a top machinist and he is picky. Half a ten thousandth is always his goal. Not amazingly the time he takes in precision turns out precise guns. The calm morning I spoke of was with one of his guns.

So I agree with your thoughts. And especially the fact most aren't capable at 100 or 200 really. But why aren't we harping on them? Thinking odds they have the much larger chance of wounding an animal. If you don't get the things it takes to shoot long range you most likely aren't going to wound, you will totally miss.

Selbys use of the word trophy bothers me. All animals are to be treated the same. But I get what he is saying in a way. But on "trophy" animals I put even more care in and much more likely to pass anything remotely iffy vs a meat hunt. If that makes sense.

Guess I'll go listen to it again but the first round kind of rattled me a bit. Sure seems to be preaching down and I suppose he gets allowed that.

OTOH if we are really worried about getting as close as we can why are we using guns? Isnt' that kind of cheating....

And yes, I hunt with all and anything, though I've never been able to be in a spot comfortable to throw my spear, I still hope that day arrives.

I know my bow. I know my deer. I know that while I can hit a deer target every time at 100 with my bow, I also know from experience that my deer trouble starts past 17 steps so I know to limit my shots... same thing with anything. Know your limits on a minute by minute basis. There are days when I have a rifle capable well beyond 1000 that I know I wouldn't even try a shot past 200 maybe not even that far.

The LRF becoming ubiquitous has stomped the life outta an awful lot of 400+yd kill shot stories from the days of yore. I suspect nearly everyone with an LRF has "myth-busted" a story of someone's "long-range" hunting story.

As such, it's hard to listen to Selby say, "Don't do this, because you're not capable, because I know what it takes, because I've actually done it." When in reality, he doesn't really know how far away a vast majority of what he considers his "long-range" kills were.

Depending upon terrain, "Stepping off" yardage may add several football fields vs. a projectiles flight path.........

Mr. Selby may indeed have a wealth of knowledge, but, it's likely to die with him if his presentation method continues to be, "Now you sit right there and I'm gonna tell you how great I am, even though most of what I'm going to tell you isn't provable. Additionally, I'm going to tell you how much I don't want to learn about what's changed since I started and that you absolutely don't know what you're doing."

Old Fartitis

Lotta three legged deer around here come November.

Way more than there used to be.


Not sure if thats because the high speed low drag silly little kevlar jacket for your suppressor crowd or the I am ten and can hunt with "dad" now.

A couple years back I took two first time shooters out to my 500 yd 8" gong. Dialed the scope for them told them hold dead on and carefully squeeze the trigger. They both connected the first time despite having never shot a rifle before.
Oh and the rifle was a Savage with a pre-fit barrel I screwed together myself...... kinda blows your theory out of the water.... eh.... lmao

one thing that leaves me cold about the whole long range hunt is all the crap you have to haul out to the site your hunt will be conducted from. i'm guessing at the minimum a bench along with bags, a set up for your spotter and some kind of weather station. i'm sure the serious ones ( i assume all these guys are serious) also set up range flags they can use as they get the sight picture they want.

i still hunt groundhogs when i go back to the hills in the summer. most of the guys i know who do this don't haul a bench setup and all. depending on conditions, some moving around is needed. most shooting is done using a daypack for a rest , shooting prone.

I see the same thing. Nobody brags about them, either, and very few even bother to go look at the spot the animal was standing and check for blood. It's too far to walk and too much trouble.

An awful lot of them don't haul anything more than a pickup-door.....

The click to "auto-down" of a power-window has likely substantially effected the coyote populations in some parts of the West. Easier to get the truck whoa'd and the rifle in your hands and ready when you don't have to hold the button or "grasp" crank it down yourself.

The times they are a'changin'. ......

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2thobAZTU-4

Thats interesting. Because it deals with drop. Drop is a zero issue these days. Windage is the real life issue.

I've not seen any more cripples in the states we hunt that I've ever seen. And I can recall seeing them as much as 45 years ago.

heck used to be if you listened to older hunters, get a bullet in em an then we'll figure it out....

Pretty much agree with much of what he said.

Mom, is that you?

As for "none of my effing business," I disagree. Slob hunters reflect poorly on all hunters. The voting public outnumber us dramatically. If hunters don't take issue with slob hunters, poachers, etc. then the voting public will. It has happened already in numerous states.

Texas musta been different than Montana in the old days.

Do they shed one in fall?

Sconi's raised slug hunting are out of their element sans pinochle stand and are confounded by any distance longer than Lambeau.

i know one thing for sure.there are 4 or 5 guys on here when it comes down to it with hunting and learning through years of experience what matters most couldnt find there ass with both hands.the so called keyboard wizards whose feeling got a liitle bruised.good hunting to all.

Hahaha!

Sometimes all of em.

slobob you have a bright future here......

The people on this board come from all walks of life, for mr sloth to paint with such a broad brush is world 1st place prize winner in complacency and ignorance, he is also ignorant in the fact of WHO all may see his little videos about how we should be behaving.

irfubar..your opinion is just that.same as mine and all else.if you have a point of contention.let me know.have a great evening..

irfubar..your opinion is just that.same as mine and all else.if you have a point of contention.let me know.have a great evening..

Brother Fubar smoked out another 'tard.

No contention...... your point is valid.... you may face a few headwinds but I suspect you are up to the task

kingston & fubar.legends in there own mind.there beliefs and intellect so superior.sarcasm and wit extraordinaire.lmao.please enlighten all here with your brilliance.

Why thank you.... never considered myself in the same class as Kingston.....

your welcome.it seems you respond almost immediately.not much to do.have a enjoyable rest of your evening.

your welcome.it seems you respond almost immediately.not much to do.have a enjoyable rest of your evening.

Yeah! You got that back 40 worked up yet Fubar?



Burning daylight!

I fear we've been rope-a-doped into an independent study for somebody's English as a second language course.

Winter returned today brother Jim..... cabin fever takes no prisoners

We can learn.... no?

I think we're supposed to be the instructors.

I just got done building a set of cow hobbles for a rancher friend.


I didn't even have pants on for some of it.




Hows that for industrious??

Jim.... you are a productive person......
I am slipping into being a man of leisure.....

Slo Bob would call that cheating, but he'd spell it differently.

I am not sure slobob is receptive to learnin?

Therein lies the rub,

Amen.
I've killed as many deer and elk offhand as I have from a rest.

well obviously thats all either of you 2 geniuses can hang your hat on.is my diction and my grammatical errors.sometimes health issues arise and affect certain things that someone was once more proficient with.so ill take the high road and only say that as you have shown your degree of good natured humanity i would hope you never befall such circumstances.so i will continue on with enjoying my life which is a gift.as is yours.i will continue hunting,shooting and traveling to hunt yearly to many different locales.enjoy family and friends as i hope you do as well. fyi i have been a member of this forum for over 20 years just under a different user name.severe computer hacking required a change and new user name.there are alot of real gentleman on this site still.i enjoy much of what they say.now you 2 gentleman can go back to rubbing one out while you video chat together trying to demean others.

If we didn't pick on you that would mean we don't like you.....

good try but no cigar.you are what you portray.later.on to more important issues.

I guess he ain't gonna accept your friend request Fubar.

I now have a friend..... woohoo

No more talk of this "rubbin" whilst Jim remains pantless building hobbles.

This and a 10-pack box of Johnsonvilles in the pinochle stand is a 'Sconi deer-hunting wet-dream.

i enjoy target shooting long range up to 1000 yds but i limit my hunting ranges to 350-400 yds at most, mostly 150 or less. i've turned down several shots over 500 yds even though i can consistently shoot that far. just feel its more fair to the game.

So, you're a hunter, as was Selby.

Randy Selby on Long Range hunters - and he may be correct that the practice is ego-driven. Ego-driven behavior should be no problem for him if this video is a true sample of his attitudes and convictions.

You don't need hobbles, just shoot a leg off.

Hey slobob, was your previous handle Kawi?


mike r

Could not say it better than that.

no mike it was not.

Randy Selby always makes sense. To mock someone of his experience and wisdom is a distinct sign of immaturity and outright stupidity. Many of the comments I’ve read are by younger “know it all” imbeciles that have absolutely no clue. Here’s the consolation to their limited minds. They will piss away their money, and they will never be capable of earning the respect Selby has earned. They will go through life being the imbeciles their comments have proven they are. Good luck morons- you’ll need it. 😂

LOL, slow day so you're going to the diwnriggers, eh.

^^^^^^
This

Old Randy stirring up the campfire with his video, funny how many dont agree. Yet Old Randy is making money, from those who consider him a fool. Hunt how you want, and keep watching Randy, you are keeping his bank account full. 🤔

I'm not a long range hunter. Long range hunting is like a lot of things, it's best left to those who are proficient at it.

And bitching about it is best left to those who aren't.

The first time I shot out to a thousand yards was with a friend's rifle and at his range set up at different yardage. With him telling us what to dial on the scope, my son and I were able to make consistent hits out to a thousand yards. The kicker is allowing for wind.
If you have an accurate rifle, good scope-I like Vortex Razor scopes. A good chronograph, range finder, know the ballistic coefficient of your bullet. Have a good ballistic app. thousand yard shots when done correctly are not magical like some have thought.
This doesn't mean you don't have to practice to be efficient.
Not saying I'll shoot an animal at a thousand but there are those that can. Long distance shooting makes you a better marksman at all ranges.
Remember White Feather in Vietnam while shooting 30-06 and later 308 had his rifles sighted in below 500yds aim for balls beyond 500yds aim for head to a 1000. Of course he made longer shots also.
I do agree alot of hunters couldn't hit a pie plate at 100yds, many shoot at a rock and if it's close good enough.

Snacking on some elk sausage right now.

Hate to tell all the haters how far the shot was.

Every year a few weeks before deer season you can go to tge local range and watch dozens of guys shoot a few boxes of ammo each just trying to "get on paper". I'm much more likely to make a 600 yard shot than many of them are to make a 100 yard shot. Ethical hunting is knowing your limits in a wide variety of situations.

Bb

I enjoy shooting long. I enjoy it because it shows you what you are capable of. Hit or miss it shows you, steel plates don't walk off bleeding to suffer either. I don't practice on animals. Once a month shoot with some local guys on a small ranch south of town 5 shots offhand 100yds, 5 shots @ 200 off sticks, 5 @ 300 off sticks, and 5@ 400 off sticks. 20 shots for score black powder and lead bullets, with tang sights. Learn something new everytime you go because the wind allways changes. Last month I shot 18/20 missed 1st offhand and 5th one, ran the rest. The bullet splatters got repainted and nothing walked off bleeding to die later. Next weekend I go back to Montana for a 40 shot match at 1000 yds same gun same ammo and a whole lot more humble score. Last year I shot 19/40 my best at a 1000 yds sure I hope to better that next weekend. But for sure the wind never is the same , the elevations will change with the temp and humidity. Only 2 constants I will have some fun and enjoyment and when I'm done those 4 moa targets won't walk off bleeding. Know your limits but don't fail to challenge them..mb

Where I hunt, a long shot is 100 yards or less. Lots of folks around here can’t even handle that. Out in Wyoming, much longer shots present themselves. I applaud my friends that take game, cleanly and regularly at long ranges.

See a lot of three legged deer these days.



I thought it was the 10 year old apprentice hunting program. Maybe it's the high speed low drag boys instead.


Hard to know.

Ron Spomer is a well know outdoors personality that frowns upon long range shooting at big game. I have heard him say that about 1/4 mile is the ethical limit for shooting at big game.

He gives two reasons for his conclusion that 1/4 mile is about the maximum for ethical shooting at big game. Number one is wind deflection: he understands that today's tech provides the dope for vertical drop, but the ability to gauge the wind over long distances is at best a guess (long range target shooters often times need one or two shots to get on paper when wind is involved). Number two Ron Spomer gives for a 1/4 mile maximum ethical distance is time of flight for the bullet: he understands that if the game takes a step, by the time the bullet reaches the game animal a lung shot is now a gut shot.

Another u-toob personality very outspoken when it comes to ethical hunting issues is Desert Dog Outdoors.
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCFgoMna-L8AhkQvYe9dKY4w/videos

The safest bet is to quit hunting and don't shoot at anything because you could wound it or offend someone. Making assumptions based on one's own preconceived notions or emotions is intellectually lazy, and the conservative mindset of attacking its own is a problem.

When they invent a gadget that can stop the wind then I'll start shooting at animals at 1000

Yup the tough factor is wind, its mostly flat where I live. Most of the time it's windy with gusts, not to mention the man made and natural windbreaks. Often the wind settles down at dusk. Longrange shooters have spotters to help with this in particular.

my bet is 1:300 hunters can read the wind well enough, and shoot well enough, to make a heart/lung shot vs a gut shot at 1000

Curious have you done much LRS do you know guys that burn out barrels on a fairly regular basis. Do you know what a Kestral linked ballistic app. is. Cause there are guys I wouldn't bet against.

If your talking the regular hunter I would tend to agree.

If I lived in more open, friendly terrain I would take longer shots. It just takes one time trying to find an animal on a steep brushy slope when you are already spent or in a clearcut and it makes you a little more motivated to get closer. Searching for game sucks.

Yea Calvin different terrain different skills and tactics. Thick wooded areas lots of lever actions, pumps, Semi autos and shotgun slug hunting. Real open longer ranges where I live. Sounds like you live in a sit and wait area.

What does Burns think...LOL

Burns invented long range hunting.

I've seen plenty of precision range shooting at 1000 yards to believe it isn't a big challenge for competent marksmen. Dan Lilja writes on the subject and the way they go about it is cautious and ethical seems to me. With excellent range finders and superbly accurate rifles with plenty of power it isn't a bigger risk than some of the offhand shots average hunters take. Sending a sighter over the animal's head until the windage is dialed in, then dropping down on target is very similar to long range competition when you don't have a good zero. A spotter behind the shooter can easily see the vapor trail trace of the bullet in flight. You can see the wind shifting mirage in the spotting scope too if it's blowing. An elk hunter I know has only shot one under 400 yards without any sophisticated setup. Which takes more skill, or luck?

[quote=Crash_Pad]I've seen plenty of precision range shooting at 1000 yards to believe it isn't a big challenge for competent marksmen. Dan Lilja writes on the subject and the way they go about it is cautious and ethical seems to me. With excellent range finders and superbly accurate rifles with plenty of power it isn't a bigger risk than some of the offhand shots average hunters take. Sending a sighter over the animal's head until the windage is dialed in, then dropping down on target is very similar to long range competition when you don't have a good zero. A spotter behind the shooter can easily see the vapor trail trace of the bullet in flight. You can see the wind shifting mirage in the spotting scope too if it's blowing. An elk hunter I know has only shot one under 400 yards without any sophisticated setup. Which takes more skill, or luck?[/quo
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Nice take on it!!

Well duh ya old fktard, you can't kill shiznit at 1k with a "Douglas Air Gauged in 30-06 " fk me, get a real cartridge for fks sake

fkn Boomers and their old ways ... SMH ... in ten years their bullshlitz will be buried with them, finally

I enjoy shooting long on the range,and do so regularly and enjoy the challenge, but in the field hunting it's rare for me to shoot critter over250 yards, in our envirornment you normally can't see much over 200 yards.. Rio7

Randy Selby is being fed by someone who wants his money when he's dead. I called and talked to him about reboring a barrel for me. He wanted $500 plus return shipping so I passed. I'm really glad I did! I later learned he sends barrels to JES and someone else and doesn't even rebore them himself. Supposedly his P&W gun drill and rifling machines haven't been run in more than 20 years.

Must be more profitable to run his yap on youtube.

This. If you hit and kill a deer or elk 900 yards away then yeah that's a great shot. But it's not really anything to brag about from a hunting standpoint. And I'd be just as impressed if you hit a 12 inch metal gong at that distance. As far as hunting skill goes I am more impressed by a shot from less than 50 yards. Maybe that's just the bow hunter in me.

I have always said when it comes to hunting if it's legal and you want to do it then more power to you. But I also wonder how honest the practitioners of long range hunting are about their success rate. Of course you will see the shots that worked out fine on TV or posted on the internet. I doubt seriously they are posting the shots that hit the animal in the ass or blew one of it's legs off.

The deciding factor is respect. If you respect your quarry, you will limit yourself to your own skill set. With modern technology in optics, bullets, ballistic calculators etc, more people can shoot further than they used to be able to. That doesn't mean that everyone should, but in my opinion, more people can. The man in the video makes some pretty foolish claims.....

If you’re good……folks know it! They don’t have to be told!

I'm a bow hunter also, the shots I decide to take are usually 20 yards. I certainly do not go out hunting to try and see how far away I'm going to shoot an animal. It is the idea of being proficient at the range the quarry presents its self. There are geographic areas that often make getting closer impossible. If a person doesn't feel confident in taking the shot then pass on it.
One can question any form of hunting as far as success or wounding.
* bow hunting
* Muzzleloader hunting
* Handgun hunting
If you take a trained practiced LRS with excellent equipment vs the seasons open pick up the old gun and shoot at a rock hunter whats the success ratio
This gets silly to me, do the things mentioned happen I'm sure they do they happen in all the other "ACCEPTED" hunting methods, YES THEY DO.

And can't "read" animal behavior,an animal can make 1 - 2 steps before a bullet can make it 1000 yds, turning a kill into a wounded critter.
That's not accounting for the variable winds over 1000 yards.

I'll get fairly close, thank you.

Legal and morally ethical are 2 different subjects.

He thinks Zelensky and Ukes win and Trump and Putin lose.

I'm old enough to remember when a guy had to be a hunter and had to get within fairly close range to get dinner.

Randy Selby is a hunter and has a winner here.

They often get that 1000 yard gun and start shooting at game that far in a 10 mph crosswind and have no clue about how far the bullet drifts or the power it hits with or the velocity it takes to result in expansion. Just as Selby said.

That's what people who can't shoot worth a piss say.
I'm not opposed to shooting an animal at any distance that I can confidently. I prefer to be closer because it reduces the margin of error, but sometimes it is what it is. Guys who go out of their way to make a long shot are not the kind I want to associate with in any capacity.

There is a huge assumption in the statment above, which is mentioned in various ways by several posters. It is that anyone who chooses not to shoot game at long range cannot do it. Not so.


Some folks simply choose not to take long range shots on game. Some of them can make the shot, but choose not to. It is a disservice to them to say that they can't, and skews the discussion away from reality into aspersions.

870 yards in a 17 mph 90° wind from right to left. 1.75 mil hold off

Nice.

Are you crazy shooting that far you should be ashamed of yourself!! JUST KIDDING NICE WORK!!! I'm an old fashioned M.O.A. guy lol.

840 yards in a slight breeze. Buck was facing me straight on and held 1/4 mil.

Gravity is cinch because it's consistent and it's effects are near perfectly quantified. My killer is that invisible wind, and I will never spend the money or take the time to dope 600+ yard shots with my centerfires.

My decision not to shoot cost me a foresure B&C bull in one instance. About 450 yds and a 40 mph crosswind in a snow storm. Maybe I could have hit that bull, but I have no idea where, and I watched him cross the horizon.

I have done literally thousands of rounds at ground squirrels in single seasons with a 22 LR and amaze myself with my abilities in crosswinds out to about 130 yds. Mostly I go by the angle of heat waves and my sense of feel as I'm not sheltered in any way. Ranges are rough estimates based on cross hair hash marks. No calculus involved. At the extremes, I may go off one side or the other by as much as 10 inches and still make consistent kills. Would I bet a month's salary on a given shot though? No way. While a life is a life, I don't equate a wounded ground squirrel with that of a wounded 6 x 6 either.

A lot of the videos I see involve a decision-making team (spotter, wind doper, ballistic calculator, someone with an altimeter and hygrometer, and a shooter) and a lot of time to execute those shots. If the shot if followed by several rounds of high 5's, a coordinated performance of the funky chicken, 5 minutes of screaming, and a round of drinks, I'm inclined to believe the event was not a habitual affair.

Others punch out a dozen or so attempts before connecting. It seems too, that animals are often oblivious of first attempts as they have no idea they're being shot at. I'll just troop around by myself and have fun staying well within my abilities.

If one wants to do the science and practice, that's his business, but don't fu-k it up on big game. It's way too valuable.

Me too. But that was out of necessity. I'm also old he enough to remember a scoped bolt rifle shooting RN bullets that shot 2 MOA was about as good as it got. Lots of hunters at that time were shooting iron sighted rifles that wouldn't do any better than 4 MOA. Hunters have always pushed the envelope on range and have always been limited by the equipment they used.

The most common way big game is shot in my world, and in many parts of the USA is from a heated, elevated stand at 30 yards over bait. IMO the guys who have put in the time and practice and spent the money to acquire the equipment to take 500+yard shot at game are closer to a hunter than the guys who hunt over bait.

With modern ammo, range finders, and optics a 300 yard shot is now no more difficult than a 50 yard shot. I can have anyone making hits at 300 yards the 1st time they ever shoot a rifle. Skill doesn't become a factor until you get well beyond 300 yards anymore.

FWIW, I'm not one of those guys skilled enough to take long shots. I've shot at paper a bit out to 600 yards, but I don't have the confidence in my ability much past 300. But I respect those who can do it.

While taking game at long range isn’t an option for me, the folks that take the time and trouble to become very good long range shooters isn’t something I’ll tell anyone they shouldn’t do. Like previous posts say, I grew up hunting trying to get as close as possible so I’ve not invested any effort into becoming long range proficient. I can compare them to the shooters I see on the wild boar hunting show taking running shots at hogs in thick timber. I haven’t tried learning that either and I genuinely admire that skill also.

I can remember when see-through rings were popular because you never knew when your scope might go tits up. Times have changed.

I agree. And I stand by my earlier statement. I doubt seriously that anyone is pulling these shots off 100% of the time. You only hear about or see the ones that end with a dead and recovered animal. Never the wounded and lost animals. From a benchrest on a range with windsocks lining the shooting lanes maybe. In the field over hill and valley where across a 1000 yard gap the wind might be blowing in 3 slightly different directions and at 3 slightly different speeds at various points in that 1000 yards with no way to precisely know the exact directions and speeds? Naaa, I don't buy it. And the practitioners of it can berate my shooting skills to deflect all they want. I have watched some of these long range hunting shows and online videos by some of the superstars of the long range hunting world and seen them miss by feet with their first shot at those distances. Of course the only reason they showed those shots was because they were clean misses which they eventually followed with a kill shot. But if you can miss the whole animal by a matter of FEET with the first shot then you can easily be off enough to wound and lose the animal. No thanks. I may not ever ascend to hunting website fame and get to sit at the cool kids 1500 yard shooter table but by keeping my shots at a much more modest range I haven't missed or wounded and lost a deer since I was a child and I'm 57 now. I'd rather have that track record than the adoration of a few people I don't actually know on a website.

I've shot long range benchrest for many years. All of that experience confirms that known come-ups at say, 1000 yards can vary by a minute or more from day to day. . . then there's the wind that can be blowing quite differently "out there" than it is from where you're shooting. I do know a few long range hunters who shoot Cheytac's with good optics and rangefinders who have the skill set and the equipment to do it right. The real problem is the creedmore cowboys who think that all you need to hunt at long range is a smartphone.

A lot of my hunting pleasure is picking the perfect place to fool your game into giving you a good shot. If I can go into their habitat and figure out where to be at a certain time, that's half of the sport. I wouldn't want to shoot game at extreme distance.

Time of flight - it's a thing.

+1