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Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: gunzo] #15958014 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by gunzo
Originally Posted by Certifiable
Intake side of impeller is destroyed
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Is this impeller #2? Today's inspection?

If so, the 3 way valve up line is in a perfect position to starve or cause the pump to cavitate. I'd take a hard look at it. Proper installation, &/or faulty?

This is the bronze impeller on the problem boiler today.. the other impeller is stainless.


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Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958026 03/31/21
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Cisco!!
I’d rather discuss fine .22’s with you than this crap...
Bronze impeller above was $600 alone and made in China

The external heat exchanger is a great solution to keep pool water away from sensitive metals but is ungodly expensive and we’d rather do it on the cheap than the right way...
you know how that goes...


She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958034 03/31/21
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I don’t see any signs of cavitation, but it is only one picture. Does it look like mechanical/foreign object damage or cavitation till pieces came off?


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Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958036 03/31/21
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Wow, well, now ya know. That puppies toast!

Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958042 03/31/21
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Hanco have definitely considered two 45’s and will likely do that this time around simply to remove another nagging “if” from the equation..

The vast majority of our pools plumbing is all sch 80 save for the last several feet. Obviously heat is the factor there as outlet temps are 160-170


She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: m_stevenson] #15958048 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by m_stevenson
I don’t see any signs of cavitation, but it is only one picture. Does it look like mechanical/foreign object damage or cavitation till pieces came off?


To me it appears cavitation till the pieces gave way


She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958199 03/31/21
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gunzo Offline
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Originally Posted by Certifiable
Originally Posted by m_stevenson
I don’t see any signs of cavitation, but it is only one picture. Does it look like mechanical/foreign object damage or cavitation till pieces came off?


To me it appears cavitation till the pieces gave way


Two bad impellers. Foreign matter in the system or pump starvation seems to be the only thing shy of 2 being faulty from the start. So the pump does seem to have been starved.

FPE says the valve can be used in any orientation so disregard my comment on proper installation. But it's still a possible obstruction of flow to the pump. A suspect.

I don't suppose an operator is getting their inline manual valve opening/closing sequence wrong.

Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958356 03/31/21
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CVPC will isolate elctorolysis from the poolside, suspect air causing cavitation, recheck air relief, and any suction side air leaks. Most pump issues are on suction side. Think simple and simple again.


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Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958378 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by Certifiable
Intake side of impeller is destroyed
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Electrolysis will occur over time. That is cavitation to be doing that much damage that quick. You need a straight suction line to suction side of pump to prevent turbulence and possibly a larger suction line. Not saying you don't have a electrolysis problem also, but it wouldn't cause that much damage that quick.

Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958453 03/31/21
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Chuck I agree..damage from cavitation was my thought from the get go. I have repaired many issues caused by electrolysis but this damage is much too specific and quick to fit that bill on its own.

Also don’t disagree with you and many of the other posters that there may still be some dissimilar metal corrosion at play..

I’ll grab a pic but the wax mixing valve is 2 1/2” and while it’s possible to go back far enough to grab 4” copper, I’m not sure that’s going to accomplish anything in regards to a larger suction line


She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958470 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by Certifiable
Chuck I agree..damage from cavitation was my thought from the get go. I have repaired many issues caused by electrolysis but this damage is much too specific and quick to fit that bill on its own.

Also don’t disagree with you and many of the other posters that there may still be some dissimilar metal corrosion at play..

I’ll grab a pic but the wax mixing valve is 2 1/2” and while it’s possible to go back far enough to grab 4” copper, I’m not sure that’s going to accomplish anything in regards to a larger suction line



Are both pumps piped in the same? Does the one causing the problems have a 90 or other fitting closer to vanes and volute? If electrolysis was doing that, people would be getting "shocked'" from touching floating grounds with that much circulating currents. Let's face it, almost every electric pump circulating system will have "stray" currents circulating to lesser impedance to earth grounds. You have a turbulence or suction staving problem.

Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958475 03/31/21
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The blue wax mixing valve is front and center. As it sits it receives hot water (165) from boiler on the left and mixes it with incoming (80) pool water on the right to send tempered water down to the pump and into the boiler.

It’s purpose is to reduce condensation in the boiler combustion chamber..

Point is it’s all 2 1/2 and is the mixing valve is supplied by the seller of these “systems”...

If you follow the pipe going away from the right side you can see back where it reduces down from 4 to 2 1/2, so in regards to increasing suction side.. it technically could be done. But I’m not convinced that would accomplish anything?
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]post images


She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958485 03/31/21
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Both are plumbed in the same
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958496 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by Certifiable
The blue wax mixing valve is front and center. As it sits it receives hot water (165) from boiler on the left and mixes it with incoming (80) pool water on the right to send tempered water down to the pump and into the boiler.

It’s purpose is to reduce condensation in the boiler combustion chamber..

Point is it’s all 2 1/2 and is the mixing valve is supplied by the seller of these “systems”...

If you follow the pipe going away from the right side you can see back where it reduces down from 4 to 2 1/2, so in regards to increasing suction side.. it technically could be done. But I’m not convinced that would accomplish anything?
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]post images


Swap mixing valves between systems. Perhaps the one has a spool piece not operating properly and is starving suction between ports. Just be out some time and maybe six gaskets at worst. Don't take this the wrong way, but the one isn't put in backwards is it, closing one port when it should be opening it. I've done things like that myself, looks like it would be easy to do.

Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958546 03/31/21
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No offense taken at all chuck I said I’m open to ideas and I meant it..
Swapping the valves is an option..but they are for sure plumbed in correctly.

And if one side was closed off the boiler would for certain go out on low flow or high limit. They are quite sensitive in that regard


She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958845 03/31/21
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I’m gonna have to go look at some we have. We don’t have three way valves like yours or pumps. The pool pump makes water flow through the heater. Butterfly valve in the 6” line is partially closed between two 6 x 2 1/2 tees. That forces water through the pool heater as I recall. The water isn’t real hot coming out of the heater, guess that’s why it’s all cpvc. I cant remember which brands we use. I’m off all week but I’m gonna check Monday. I’m curious now. I’ll take some pics of the set up we have.

Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15958848 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by Certifiable
No offense taken at all chuck I said I’m open to ideas and I meant it..
Swapping the valves is an option..but they are for sure plumbed in correctly.

And if one side was closed off the boiler would for certain go out on low flow or high limit. They are quite sensitive in that regard



Yeah, I figured it was piped in right. Just a thought. It's not your job to solve the electrolysis problem if there is one, only to stop it from damaging your pump. An easy way to do this is to attach ground clamps around piping in and out of pump and install a ground wire parrallel to pump. Contrary to what some people think, parrallel circuit of different impedance won't share loads. Less impedance path will carry all currents which will be your ground wire around pump. If just as a experiment, looking at your soldering job, you wouldn't have any problem soldering a #10 solid copper wire to each side of pump piping for a jumper. Is there a way to throttle discharge slightly to reduce gpm flow thru pump? This might reduce cavitation or help diagnose problem. Pump may be of size to be able to move more water than suction line will provide. I have had to trim centrifugal pump rotors in a lathe before for this reason. Are the nameplates of both pumps the same GPM rating? You mentioned they had different impellors. the bad one isn't a higher rated GPM is it?

Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15959420 03/31/21
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Repipe using aquatherm


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Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15959750 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by Certifiable
Both are plumbed in the same
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


That assembled discharge looks like it could easily have a path to ground, electrolytic action, copper to steel rub points from wear, and of course compromised piping.

I would alter the pump support to become a hung suspension instead of the mess created by the saddle support. It should be a no brainer to replace the discharge piping long before it is looking like that.

Re: Plumbers/boiler techs... [Re: Certifiable] #15959776 03/31/21
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Should not some of these lines be insulated?

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