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Yes sir it did. A big part of my confusion here is the boiler company sells this all as a package and you would think they would have encountered these problems long before us...

Here’s what’s somewhat possible for me to accomplish...

I can 90 The two horizontal lines up as close as possible to the roof, then have them tie into the mixing valve a good 5 feet higher than where it sits.
From there I can go 3 inch straight down from the mixing valve to the pump everywhere except right at the mixing valve and right into the boiler where it would obviously need to reduce to 2 1/2...
it seems that would aid greatly in allowing the water to “settle” after it leaves the valve and before the pump..?

Bossman..
red is cast iron gold is brass
Red has stainless impeller

There is your problem. They undersized the mixing valve with a 2.5 dia model to keep the cost of the package low to be competitive, when they should've had a 3.0 flange mixing valve in the package so you have a straight shot to the pump from the mixing valve with 3.0 piping.

Their package they marketed as a complete design was flawed, because their design required a reducer that created a pressure drop, that created cavitiation that destroyed the pumps. They are fully culpable for all repair costs. Any Engineer from B&G will vouch that using the reducer caused the failure. Their design, their responsibility.

Now the other side of that coin too, is ultimately, a contractor is responsible for the final product he builds, and is licensed to know if the design is correct. So, it's really both the supply house and contractor's fault here.

You guys need to pull the 2.5 mix valves, and install 3.0 mix valves so you'll have a straight 3.0 pipe running from mixer to pump, and problem solved.

You need to talk to the tech engineer at the supply house, and explain their package they represented is flawed, and see how much they will cover in expenses for all of this. See if they will get right. It's a slam dunk win in court if you guys have to sue, being they marketed the "complete" package, instead of you walking in and ordering all of the parts separately.

Change the mixers, and go down the road, and forget the tank fix I discussed.

Elk, if I may ask,

your education and background?

Come off your two feeds with 3.0 and into the new 3.0 mix valves, and be done with it.

You are in the drivers seat 100% here with the supply house, and they will know it when you start talking the technical aspects of this flawed design.

Just follow me here, and you'll get out of this all for the better. They won't screw with you, once they realize you know it is a flawed design on their part.

Tell them you want two brand new pumps, and two new 3.0 mixing valves. pipe them in, and you're a free man, with no more headaches.

I just lifted a heavy weight off your shoulders here. Step back, and take a deep breath. You're home free now, bud.

Also, the 2.5 mixing valve is acting as a choke in the piping, and is actually restricting the 3.0 pump's volume capacity. I don't know if your boiler's required volume is being restricted here or whether it is being compromised here, but the 3.0 mix valve will eliminate that now.

Your evidence to present to them is two points:

1 - reducer causes cavitation
2 - 2.5 mixer becomes a inline "choke" to the 3.0 B&G pump

Two points to prove their design was flawed, and that's all you have to tell them.

Their next move will determine what action your company needs to pursue if they don't get right.

I'd shoot for 100% coverage for all costs for all time, even the other trips to repair the pumps, all of it. And bill them at your going rate. Don't let them dictate what "they" want to pay. Otherwise you're just simply working at your actual cost, and not making any profit. They are responsible for lost opportunity, so you need to charge your company's normal hourly amount.

I was wondering the same. He's far more knowledgeable than this plunger jockey, that's for sure.

PhD, MD, JD,

CEO

X2..
Elks much obliged and I’m following along as time permits here so please bear with me...

I’m picking up all of what you are putting down. A small point to make tho, I am part of the maintenance dept for our district so there are no company costs or profit per se.. but for the purpose of getting this right that is largely irrelevant.

Truth is despite how spot on you may be there’s likely little chance of “us” pursuing this as you say. Sad but true

A question then based on your observations..
Could not the same thing be accomplished by sourcing a true 2 1/2” pump assembly? B&G does not appear to make one but at a quick glance TACO does..

Assuming we don’t pursue and get compensated for a damn thing...the 3” FPE would be costly as I recall these 2 1/2 were I think over a grand each and we have 6 in the district that would ideally need to be replaced.. add fittings into that and $$

Don't mean to insult you at all.

I figured you were out there with your azz hanging in the wind, and that's why I decided to help you. Typical companies these days, send the guys out with no back office support.

You're a good man for caring and wanting to repair it right. Far and few in this day and time.

If your company is doing big jobs like that, and doesn't have a service mgr, then usually the owner goes out on problem jobs to oversee them, if he cares about his company's reputation.

Well, you have all the facts now, so you can relay them to your boss and he can make the right decision, hopefully. He's guaranteed to be back if he doesn't do what I said, and fix it right.

Sad, your "boss" *cough* *cough* doesn't have the answers for you.

Elk you didn’t insult me the slightest. You’d have to work here to understand the kick in the balls comment and the kick assuredly didn’t come from you😂

Kenneth,

I suspect the answer was used twice in his post immediately above your question. If not that, he might do maintenance work at an industrial facility.

Ok, I hear you now, you're the maintenance for the district.

2.5 TACO's could solve your issue, "IF" they fill the boiler requirements for GPM, etc. You need to look at the specs for the boiler, to see what the MIN / MAX is, to ensure it will work. Hell call the supply house, and get them to look it up, well maybe not......you check it.

Copy that elks..
I’ll do what I can to see if boiler requirements would be met. Tho a new pump assembly would not be cheap it would be way less time consuming to do it that way..
And time is never on my side in this dept..

I didn’t want to come off as too negative while trying to paint a realistic picture of what is going on here, but yes in this case I’m wearing too many damn hats

Thanks again

Has it been proven that cavitation is the problem here?

IF cavitation is the problem, it might be cured by adding an inline circ p. upstream of the tee feeding the butterflys. Why? Because NPSH is all important.

Do you know many types of bronze are not compatible with chlorine?

I don’t think anything has been “proven” per se only time will tell that..
Some very good ideas that make sense to me anyway and I’m going to run with them the best I can within the restrictions I have to work with

I don’t know what NPSH is but I’m all ears

I’ll look into this a bit and would assume it does not meet boiler flow requirements otherwise why the hell isnt this the one they supply...

This might not apply to this deal, but I'm seeing lots of mismatched packages due to COVID and supply chain problems. The suppliers can't get the correct parts so they substitute and probably figure the customer won't complain if they over-spec the substitute - in your case a 3" substitute for a 2.5" pump.