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You act like you have a choice in the matter. The fact is that when God calls you, you don't have a choice but to answer that call.
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Campfire Tracker
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That part of Christian doctrine troubles me. A Buddhist monk who has done no harm to anyone or anything in his lifetime, and who has lived a virtuous life, goes to eternal torment upon death, but a sleazeball small-town politician or thieving businessman who has screwed people over all of his adult life gets to go to heaven, just because he was a deacon in church for the connections it gave him?
No, not at all. The only connection required is to Jesus Christ, period. And that is the only way. Period. This whole thing is so badly misunderstood that it's mind boggling. Religion is about making yourself acceptable to God (and will always fail). A relationship with Jesus Christ is about putting your trust in him and him only---and it is NOT religion...it is not ritual, it is not tradition, it is not any of those things. It is just too simple to understand for some. But wouldn't the Buddhist monk and the mentally ill people in my example still go to hell because they didn't know and accept Jesus (even if their non-acceptance wasn't their fault), but the sleazeball deacon goes to eternal glory because he presumably asks Jesus to forgive his sleazy ways on his deathbed?
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If you live a good, moral life, you'll end up where you're supposed to. In that, you are saying that you can "do good" yourself into heaven. If that is the case then Jesus died for nothing. In reality, there are none who can merit going to heaven without Jesus' righteousness imparted upon us None! It's the work of the cross not our own good works. No matter what you (or I) do, we will never be good enough to go. That part of Christian doctrine troubles me. A Buddhist monk who has done no harm to anyone or anything in his lifetime, and who has lived a virtuous life, goes to eternal torment upon death, but a sleazeball small-town politician or thieving businessman who has screwed people over all of his adult life gets to go to heaven, just because he was a deacon in church for the connections it gave him? What about mentally ill people who, through no fault of their own, can't attend church or understand it? Schizophrenics, agoraphobics, people with social anxiety disorders, people with severe learning disabilities. They are tossed into the lake of fire because they were unlucky enough to have malfunctioning brains? It all seems very unfair and arbitrary. God gives everyone a fair shake. There will be lots if LD adults in heaven that will have an IQ unencombered by the childhood vaccines or drugs their parents took. I can prove from the Bible that the children who left this world at no fault of their own were shown mercy beyond belief. God seems unfair to you because you haven't talken time to get to know the God of the Bible. IF you, y-o-u want to be judged by the standard of your morality, He will when that day comes. If I got what I deserved, I would be in hell right now. He will let you choose mercy and forgiveness instead IF that's what you want. However, it's on His terms. It's described in His Word. If you don't want that, He will let you hold onto your self righteousness too. It's all a matter of your choice. Are you as righteous as Jesus? "As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one.... For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." 6:23 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 The rest is described in my signature link https://youtu.be/GxdXw7LFguk
Last edited by Happy_Camper; 04/03/21.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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The question is, what is good enough? How good do you have to be to get into heaven? The answer is in the Bible - you have to be perfect, sinless. Since no man has ever been sinless, heaven would be empty. So, Jesus took the penalty for us. He absorbed all of our sins and paid the price that would have been ours to pay, giving us a way to salvation. His only rule is that we have to believe in him. It's that simple.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Outfitter
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The question is, what is good enough? How good do you have to be to get into heaven? The answer is in the Bible - you have to be perfect, sinless. Since no man has ever been sinless, heaven would be empty. So, Jesus took the penalty for us. He absorbed all of our sins and paid the price that would have been ours to pay, giving us a way to salvation. His only rule is that we have to believe in him. It's that simple. That sums it up, right there.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The question is, what is good enough? How good do you have to be to get into heaven? The answer is in the Bible - you have to be perfect, sinless. Since no man has ever been sinless, heaven would be empty. So, Jesus took the penalty for us. He absorbed all of our sins and paid the price that would have been ours to pay, giving us a way to salvation. His only rule is that we have to believe in him. It's that simple. BINGO! It really really is that simple.
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Campfire Outfitter
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No, not at all. The only connection required is to Jesus Christ, period. And that is the only way. Period.
This whole thing is so badly misunderstood that it's mind boggling. Religion is about making yourself acceptable to God (and will always fail). A relationship with Jesus Christ is about putting your trust in him and him only---and it is NOT religion...it is not ritual, it is not tradition, it is not any of those things. It is just too simple to understand for some.
But wouldn't the Buddhist monk and the mentally ill people in my example still go to hell because they didn't know and accept Jesus (even if their non-acceptance wasn't their fault), but the sleazeball deacon goes to eternal glory because he presumably asks Jesus to forgive his sleazy ways on his deathbed? Many things I do not know, nor does anyone else. What happens at the moment of death? Does time stand still for those dying out of grace through "no fault of their own," and are they given an opportunity to accept? I have no idea. Maybe. Or, an argument could be made that God endows us with a certain portion of soul essence that he already knows something about, which is how and why are born and grow up in a certain part of the world. There are all kinds of ways I can imagine it, but none of my imaginings matter. All I know is that I believe God is just and things will be as they should.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
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Is it better to have standards and ideals you cannot meet, or none at all?
^^^^^^ Anything goes for Godless people. How's that working out?
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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You act like you have a choice in the matter. The fact is that when God calls you, you don't have a choice but to answer that call. Yup. And literally thousands of religions tell me that. 😉
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Is it better to have standards and ideals you cannot meet, or none at all?
^^^^^^ Anything goes for Godless people. How's that working out? Hey Ballz, Remember when you choked on that blueberry muffin or whatever? And thought you'd seen the Jesus? LMAO You were all "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" for a few weeks. LOL
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
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If you live a good, moral life, you'll end up where you're supposed to. In that, you are saying that you can "do good" yourself into heaven. If that is the case then Jesus died for nothing. In reality, there are none who can merit going to heaven without Jesus' righteousness imparted upon us None! It's the work of the cross not our own good works. No matter what you (or I) do, we will never be good enough to go. That part of Christian doctrine troubles me. A Buddhist monk who has done no harm to anyone or anything in his lifetime, and who has lived a virtuous life, goes to eternal torment upon death, but a sleazeball small-town politician or thieving businessman who has screwed people over all of his adult life gets to go to heaven, just because he was a deacon in church for the connections it gave him? What about mentally ill people who, through no fault of their own, can't attend church or understand it? Schizophrenics, agoraphobics, people with social anxiety disorders, people with severe learning disabilities. They are tossed into the lake of fire because they were unlucky enough to have malfunctioning brains? It all seems very unfair and arbitrary. God gives everyone a fair shake. There will be lots if LD adults in heaven that will have an IQ unencombered by the childhood vaccines or drugs their parents took. I can prove from the Bible that the children who left this world at no fault of their own were shown mercy beyond belief. God seems unfair to you because you haven't talken time to get to know the God of the Bible. IF you, y-o-u want to be judged by the standard of your morality, He will when that day comes. If I got what I deserved, I would be in hell right now. He will let you choose mercy and forgiveness instead IF that's what you want. However, it's on His terms. It's described in His Word. If you don't want that, He will let you hold onto your self righteousness too. It's all a matter of your choice. Are you as righteous as Jesus? "As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one.... For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." 6:23 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 The rest is described in my signature link https://youtu.be/GxdXw7LFgukWould the virtuous Buddhist monk go to heaven?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,553 Likes: 23 |
I am not sure a declining church attendance equals anything but a declining church income.
I am MAGA.
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Posts: 11,952
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Would the virtuous Buddhist monk go to heaven? You keep going back to "what if we are good enough?". None are good enough in themselves. Romans 3:23 NKJV ..... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
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A long time ago I dropped all the Churches that were members of the World Council of Churches, knocking out all the large denominations. Then I dropped all the churches that wanted to see my tax returns, which knocked out a number of independent, born-again churches. Then I knocked out all the churches that were boring and that completed my research on church attendance. I get one day a week off, Sunday, and I can't see any reason to give up my shooting hobby, doing chores around the house, reloading, casting bullets. fishing, restoring the house for anything I've found in churches.
.I'm pretty much a loner and have not found many of the folks that I've met through religion that I'd want to spend much time with.
"Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas Jefferson
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One of my kids works with retards. My usual greeting to them is "How are the saints doing today?"
Totally Biblical, totally Christian theology. Most of those clients never stepped foot in Church, never baptized and never will. But don't believe that that will work for you. I'm pretty sure that everyone here will be held to a higher standard. The first Great Commandment is to love God with your whole heart, your whole mind and your whole soul. You cannot put the cart before the horse like the Babylonians tried when they built their tower without regard for God, putting the 2nd before the first or ignoring it entirely.
Most people reject The Church because of what they *think* it is, not because of what it really is.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You go to church every Sunday and still call them retards?
I am MAGA.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I am not sure a declining church attendance equals anything but a declining church income.
And that, folks, is the best answer yet.
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You go to church every Sunday and still call them retards? A farmer is offended by reality?
Politics is War by Other Means
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You go to church every Sunday and still call them retards? my thoughts exactly. what would he call them if one of his children was so afflicted?
My diploma is a DD214
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Jul 2015
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You go to church every Sunday and still call them retards? my thoughts exactly. what would he call them if one of his children was so afflicted? What future slur would you use to describe them? The slur is in your heart. You guys are falling for a Marxist rope-a-dope.
Last edited by Tyrone; 04/03/21.
Politics is War by Other Means
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