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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,262 Likes: 1 |
I believe it’s more like being about money, jewelry, art, etc. that supposedly and is suspected to have been taken from the Jews in Germany of that era. So the Roman Catholic Church willingly tolerated or flat-out ignored the Nazi’s crimes against humanity in order to benefit financially from money, art, jewelry, and other valuable belongings taken from murdered Jews and others...? shocker Heh ! Good one. The Jews couldn’t spirit themselves much less their hard assets out of the country . These were ‘supposedly ‘ entrusted to the safe keeping of the Roman Catholic Church until they could later be reclaimed. The Roman Catholic Church was pretty much the soul surviving Chr*stian Church entity to remain somewhat whole in Germany and other occupied countries during those turbulent years. When the Jews were relocated to camps, etc. and failed to return to collect those entrusted hard assets,,,,,,the present day Israelis want to have a look and an accounting of the records that were kept. Just so we're clear, getting out and starting over wasn't what they were after. Going back to claim abandoned property, that changed hands during a literal world war is what drives the Elly Weasel society? Does that apply to farms, houses, etc. of everyone else affected by the belligerents? I don't think the jews have a monopoly on that......... Okay. Not being a prick, I'm serious. I have enough of Abrahams wayward wanderers in my background I'd not have promoted in the Nazi party.  I don't do victimhood well. Life is what you can carve from it. Perpetuating the perception of "justice" when all they're after is abandoned property seems to fit a stereotype eh? IMHO But what do I know, I'm only an American. American myself. Generational Link?
Epstein didn't kill himself.
"Play Cinnamon Girl you Sonuvabitch!"
Biden didn't win the election.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
American myself.
Some would posit that theft is theft. Victimhood can often accompany things like that. Then there’s living family members of those who had their entrusted possessions stolen from to be considered.
So the same holds true for everyone who lost a farm or house as well? Should we fund assassin squads and lawyers to get back their lost familial property as well? Are are the jews unique in that they get back their shidt but nobody else does? How many generations does this "legit" victimhood carry on for? If you lost a farm, go after it and good luck. A good Jewish lawyer could probably help you get it back. You folks go after yours and the Jews will go after theirs. Fair enough, I think.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,566 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,566 Likes: 5 |
American myself.
Some would posit that theft is theft. Victimhood can often accompany things like that. Then there’s living family members of those who had their entrusted possessions stolen from to be considered.
So the same holds true for everyone who lost a farm or house as well? Should we fund assassin squads and lawyers to get back their lost familial property as well? Are are the jews unique in that they get back their shidt but nobody else does? How many generations does this "legit" victimhood carry on for? If you lost a farm, go after it and good luck. A good Jewish lawyer could probably help you get it back. You folks go after yours and the Jews will go after theirs. Fair enough, I think. You make my point for me better than I ever could.
MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
American myself.
Some would posit that theft is theft. Victimhood can often accompany things like that. Then there’s living family members of those who had their entrusted possessions stolen from to be considered.
So the same holds true for everyone who lost a farm or house as well? Should we fund assassin squads and lawyers to get back their lost familial property as well? Are are the jews unique in that they get back their shidt but nobody else does? How many generations does this "legit" victimhood carry on for? If you lost a farm, go after it and good luck. A good Jewish lawyer could probably help you get it back. You folks go after yours and the Jews will go after theirs. Fair enough, I think. You make my point for me better than I ever could. Always glad to help.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,157
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,157 |
The Roman Catholic Church has yet to open their books to the Israelis as requested for that period of time (WW2). Reckon they’re tryin’ to protect Pope Pius XII’s image...? He never denounced the Holocaust publicly, and is now a candidate for canonization. Totalitarians always seek to destroy religion. The first order of business of totalitarian regimes is to stamp out religion because someone who is loyal to God won't have total loyalty to the state. It's the same with family, totalitarian regimes seek to destroy family ties because they don't want family to come before loyalty to the state. The state must come before God and family in order for them to have complete control. It's for this reason that democrats embrace the welfare state and it's emphasis on destroying the family. An unwed mother with five kids dependent upon government for a welfare check is the closest thing to a slave that exists today. The Catholic Church isn't a monolithic entity. Many in the Church opposed Nazism during WWII but there were many that supported it also. Pius XII went along with far too much and should have used his position to bring light to the holocaust. Many Nazis used a series of safe houses set up in monasteries to escape justice after the war and escape to South America, Mengele and Eichmann among them. They called them the ratlines and most escaped from the Italian port of Genoa with the help of some in the Catholic Church. One bishop in particular, Alois Hudal, was responsible for setting up the system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_HudalWWII Ratlines
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,914 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,914 Likes: 2 |
I had mistakenly thought Hitler and the Nazis embraced Christianity.
I just watched video of Chancellor Dr Alfred Rosenberg demanding the abolition of Catholic and Protestant churches in Germany in 1938.
Followed by German Church Regulations: Article XXX
"The Christian Cross is to be removed from all churches and cathedrals, and is to be replaced by the immortal symbol of Germany, the Swastika"
Followed by arrest and execution of hundreds of religious leaders of all denominations across Germany. I guess Hitler's ego could not compete with anybody's God.
Neo-Nazis certainly like to invoke the name of God! If you ever want to know about one of the greatest German heroes of WW2, read "Hanged On a Twisted Cross", a biography about a pastor named Detreich Bonhoffer. Arrested, imprisoned and finally executed by the Nazis for openly defying Hitler. This!
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,128 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,128 Likes: 7 |
I don't think one could use both terms in the same sentience. Why not. Christianity has probably killed, murdered, tortured, stolen, pillaged, raped, enslaved, you name it, more than any other organization going in the last 2000 years. I know about the atheistic communists but they have only been around a little over a century. They are pikers next to Christianity. And for the record, I believe Jesus was who he said he was and I am endeavoring to follow him. The organized religion of Christianity has done more to harm the teachings of Jesus than any of the millions of Atheists, occultists, and heathen pagans ever could.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,656 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,656 Likes: 1 |
The Church itself became totalitarian to the point of having power of life and death on matters of faith, heretics tortured and killed....
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,499 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,499 Likes: 1 |
Christianity has probably killed, murdered, tortured, stolen, pillaged, raped, enslaved, you name it, more than any other organization going in the last 2000 years. I know about the atheistic communists but they have only been around a little over a century. They are pikers next to Christianity. And for the record, I believe Jesus was who he said he was and I am endeavoring to follow him. The organized religion of Christianity has done more to harm the teachings of Jesus than any of the millions of Atheists, occultists, and heathen pagans ever could. I believe I understand the premise of your post. But atheistic ideologies and regimes have murdered more than 150 million people in the 20th Century alone. And they’ve continued to kill hundreds of thousands since. Coupled with the millions of enslavements, tortures, and rapes of these atheistic ideologies and regimes, and it’s also a very awful picture. None of that diminishes the horrible truth of the human carnage that you referred to caused by Christianity over the last 2000 years, but its numbers dwarf in comparison to that wrought by atheistic ideologies and regimes, despite the fact that they’ve only been around for as long as you say they have. The argument that Christianity has killed more people than atheism has no basis in fact. And I absolutely do agree with your last sentence in particular.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,763 Likes: 5
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,763 Likes: 5 |
Pope Pius XII seemed to be awfully cozy with the nazis and fascists
Sam......
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5 |
No Pope defender here, but what would you expect a guy in charge of a “country” the size of a few hundred acres to do in the middle of a war surrounded by thousands of troops belonging to a dictator from another country? Would you have expected the Pope to denounce Hitler and tell German Catholics to rebel when a NAZI column could have driven up to the gates of the Vatican and carried him off?
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
No Pope defender here, but what would you expect a guy in charge of a “country” the size of a few hundred acres to do in the middle of a war surrounded by thousands of troops belonging to a dictator from another country? Would you have expected the Pope to denounce Hitler and tell German Catholics to rebel when a NAZI column could have driven up to the gates of the Vatican and carried him off? Yes.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
After all...that is what the rest of the world did.
They died for it too, but still did it.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,499 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,499 Likes: 1 |
No Pope defender here, but what would you expect a guy in charge of a “country” the size of a few hundred acres to do in the middle of a war surrounded by thousands of troops belonging to a dictator from another country? Would you have expected the Pope to denounce Hitler and tell German Catholics to rebel when a NAZI column could have driven up to the gates of the Vatican and carried him off? Yes. A very small band of Jesus’ followers...after they witnessed His resurrection...were emboldened and stood up to the power structure and might of the Roman Empire.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 322
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 322 |
The christian church help nazi's get out of Germany.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
The christian church help nazi's get out of Germany. Excuse me, I edited that for you.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,499 Likes: 1 |
The christian church help nazi's get out of Germany. Specifically, the Vatican helped many Nazi war criminals and collaborators to escape Germany.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5 |
No Pope defender here, but what would you expect a guy in charge of a “country” the size of a few hundred acres to do in the middle of a war surrounded by thousands of troops belonging to a dictator from another country? Would you have expected the Pope to denounce Hitler and tell German Catholics to rebel when a NAZI column could have driven up to the gates of the Vatican and carried him off? Yes. A very small band of Jesus’ followers...after they witnessed His resurrection...were emboldened and stood up to the power structure and might of the Roman Empire. Yeah, well the Pope ain’t Jesus.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
No Pope defender here, but what would you expect a guy in charge of a “country” the size of a few hundred acres to do in the middle of a war surrounded by thousands of troops belonging to a dictator from another country? Would you have expected the Pope to denounce Hitler and tell German Catholics to rebel when a NAZI column could have driven up to the gates of the Vatican and carried him off? Yes. A very small band of Jesus’ followers...after they witnessed His resurrection...were emboldened and stood up to the power structure and might of the Roman Empire. Yeah, well the Pope ain’t Jesus. Neither were all the troops and common people that stood before the Reich.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,499 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,499 Likes: 1 |
No Pope defender here, but what would you expect a guy in charge of a “country” the size of a few hundred acres to do in the middle of a war surrounded by thousands of troops belonging to a dictator from another country? Would you have expected the Pope to denounce Hitler and tell German Catholics to rebel when a NAZI column could have driven up to the gates of the Vatican and carried him off? Yes. A very small band of Jesus’ followers...after they witnessed His resurrection...were emboldened and stood up to the power structure and might of the Roman Empire. Yeah, well the Pope ain’t Jesus. Neither were Jesus’ followers that I mentioned above.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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