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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,121 Likes: 12 |
Electromachining has it's place, for the low end home gamer but not the best option for high end production barrels. Electropolishing, if that is, in fact, what they were using, is not electromachining, per se'. Electropolishing is intended for burr removal & rounding of sharp edges. It is done in a concentrated sulfuric acid + concentrated phosphoric acid bath using the part to be "polished" as an anode with inert or lead cathodes. It produces a very highly polished, very low surface finish depending on the exact SS alloy. It is very difficult to ensure perfect current density distribution (i.e., stock removal) over the entire surface being affected, especially at the ends as the effective current density applied to an electrode is always higher at its ends that in the middle; the amp meter can only measure & adjust the average total current, not the uniformity of its distribution. If that makes any sense to you...................... MM Like wavelengths or harmonics to sense surface finish? Since inside a bore, you can not use a surface finish gauge. Very interesting stuff MM. What surface finish do they say is optimum? 64-40 finish, or is that too smooth? Here's an excerpt from Lilja, from an article they wrote about "what makes a rifle barrel accurate": " It seems as though some experienced shooters and gunsmiths tend to place too much emphasis on one single characteristic of barrel as it relates to accuracy. For example, some gunsmiths look at not much more than how straight a barrel is in evaluating its potential before chambering it. Others look at internal finish or bore diameter. We had experience with one customer that paid a business that checked twist rate deviation to examine all of his barrels.
In our opinion this is putting the blinders on, a case of being myopic. All of these properties are important and a serious problem with any single one of them could cause accuracy trouble. But the point is they’re all important. To sum up the critical factors we’ve mentioned, they include: a straight hole of uniform diameter and correct size for the intended caliber; a smooth and uniform surface finish that lays parallel to the rifling; a uniform rifling pitch; stress-free steel; adequate stiffness for the type of shooting it will be used for; and a first-rate installation job with special attention paid to the throat. An accurate barrel is the result of a happy marriage of all of these." I believe this is what you guys are saying about getting the right guys to do the final barrel work. Lilja has been known to put out some exceptionally accurate rifle barrels.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,601
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,601 |
I've had several barrels from Odin Works, Faxon, & Black Hole Weaponry in various calibers. All could shoot 1/4"-1/2" groups with handloads.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,348
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,348 |
I've had several barrels from Odin Works, Faxon, & Black Hole Weaponry in various calibers. All could shoot 1/4"-1/2" groups with handloads. So, Who supplied their barrel blanks?
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,121 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,121 Likes: 12 |
I've had several barrels from Odin Works, Faxon, & Black Hole Weaponry in various calibers. All could shoot 1/4"-1/2" groups with handloads. Nice!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,010 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,010 Likes: 2 |
I've had several barrels from Odin Works, Faxon, & Black Hole Weaponry in various calibers. All could shoot 1/4"-1/2" groups with handloads. So, Who supplied their barrel blanks? Odin gets their from Mcgowen. BHW is now Columbia River Arms, and they make their own. According to Faxon they make the entire barrel including the blank and only send them out for nitriding. The Director at Faxon Firearms. E-Mail me anytime: Nathan  faxonfirearms.com
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,463 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,463 Likes: 2 |
Just like Tryone and others are saying...sounded good in theory...not so good in practice. ...or if some is good, than more is better right?
There were some “name” barrel makers that said they would not stand behind their barrels if the black star process was applied to them. I remember one was quoted as saying there was an ideal surface finish that was applied during the lapping process and messing with that got you the opposite of what you were after. Sorry Tyrone...I just caught my typo...and now it's too late to edit (and folks have repeated it in quotes). It wasn't intended. But I will use this opportunity to stick a fork in the Blackstar tangent. LW in that era was using an interesting Stainless Alloy that required different machining techniques (lower feed rate, carbide tooling, coolant flush etc.), but no problem for an experienced machinist I think it was 17-4 and I was interested in trying that...just not one done by BlackStar. IIRC near the end of their run, Blackstar was using K&P blanks.
Last edited by ChrisF; 04/25/21.
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,729 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,729 Likes: 2 |
Chris, I think LW still uses that alloy. It's not bad, at least to this consumer. I had one and it shot well and wore well for a button barrel. I got ~4,200 rounds out of it before it puked. That's about 1,000 more than I normally expect out of a button barrel.
The Lothars are kind of expensive. For the money, I'd just as soon have a WO Wilson or a Krieger.
Last edited by Tyrone; 04/25/21.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,463 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,463 Likes: 2 |
Thanks Tyrone,
That takes care of my FOMO...
I think Tippie and/or Anna Kinney were using LW blanks at one time...but I wasn’t interested in sourcing from them.
I took a look at the LW USA webpage but they don’t talk specifics of their steel. ...and they’re mostly listing CM...4000 series iirc.
Last edited by ChrisF; 04/25/21.
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