Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The " I Believe " Forum

Most sane bar owners discourage talk about religion for a reason. Booz and god don't mix well. Mixing guns and booz or guns and god is also asking for trouble!

1B

I can't find the bear hunting forum either.

Follow the spoor.

It seems that there is never any change. While there were a few posts on the CATC forum that were hateful, the vast majority were not. In the course of time many groups were drug over coals about their belief system, including the Baptists in a very hateful way. Strange, no one seemed to complain about that too much, including the Baptists. But there was one constant that never changed, and it seems never will. Many, many times I stated that anyone is free to believe what they wish, but that does not mean that everyone else has to agree. My view of the forum was learning what others thought and believed. I never considered it something that might �change my mind� about something I believed, or that I would change others, just that in so doing we could learn about each other.

That kind of communication threatens some people. It seems they are not secure in a world where they can hear people who know and understand what they think, but have the audacity to disagree. Much of what has been said to be Catholic bashing was simply not agreeing with what some Catholics said. There were a couple of people who truly �bashed� Catholics, but others simply wanted a balanced conversation, and I think I fit into that group, though it would seem mine has been the only name that has been mentioned. I guess that being willing to allow others the freedom to believe and practice what they wish, but wanting that contrasted and compared with other ideas and what others believe is �bashing�. Interesting definition.

Dogzapper, there were several times I defended your right to believe and say what you wished, and stated that I enjoyed hearing what you had to say and hoped you continued posting. (And BTW, I have posted on quite a few of the forums, like AR, levers, pistols, etc., but I spend more time on some of the Marlin sites.) Neither you nor I expected me to agree with everything you said, but as I said several times, if all I heard were my opinions repeated how would I learn anything? Did I disagree at times, and say so? Yes, but telling the other side is not bashing. If what I did was �Catholic bashing�, then what you and others did in stating your ideas must also be considered �Baptist bashing�. How many times have I asked that we just agree to disagree and go on to some other topic where we could find more common ground? You will never know how many times I did not reply to pointedly anti-Baptist posts, decidedly slanted pro-Catholic posts, or attacks against me personally, all because they would either not be received in the way I would wish, or would simply cause more strife. I imagine that there were others, including Catholics, who could say the same.

I enjoy a good discussion, complete with evidence for and against ideas. This evidence is considered an argument for or against (not an �argument� in the terms of a fight). This is especially true for me with religion and politics, probably because it is impossible to do for most people. It seems most people can only fight about it and never consider the merits of the other side�s argument. Rick Bin, if you read the last post I made, which was never posted because the forum was already down (I usually entered the forum from favorites, or bookmarks, and from these you can still see the CATC forum, so I didn�t know it was down until I sent the post), I would think you would see that, but I am not sure now.

The reason I say that is because, as Fish280, I see a diabolical side to this. I see a side that simply got tired of being disagreed with, of not having what they said accepted simply because they said it. I don�t call it bigotry, however. To me it is censorship. While I agree it is your site, Rick, and you can do what you wish, I think to say CATC was shut down because of the bigotry there may have been a cheap shot, as is most of the �discussion� I�ve seen on this thread. To go by this would mean that you cannot have any real discussion on the Campfire. Disagree with Rick and he�ll pull the plug on you. By putting a sticker on threads such as the Pope�s views and explanations, which meant it would always be at the top, you actually placed it where people couldn�t avoid it, and incited more comments instead of just letting it die.

It seems that it is impossible for some to separate individuals from an organization. Funny thing is (though I�m sure that some will consider this �bashing�) by this action many simply had their opinions (whether true or false they will never know now) of Catholic individuals and the Catholic Church forever merged. I�ve already had people email me with complaints about how Catholics censor things they don�t like. Again, this is not necessarily what I think, but what has already been said to me. To them this is just another Inquisition with Rick as the Grand Inquisitor. �They don�t accept our beliefs? Turn them on the spic for a few minutes� that will teach them. Don�t agree with Catholic doctrine? Boil them in oil. Dare to post their ideas that don�t agree with Catholic dogma? Cancel the forum�. And, don�t just cancel the forum and say it was for the sake of harmony and simply time to move on to something new, but make sure you vilify those that dared to disagree with you when you do it, and foster the one sided hate that this thread has revealed. Oh yeah, this was a good move, Rick. Sadly, it didn�t have to be this way.

I was looking forward to the Rendezvous next spring. It would have been good to sit around and commune with many of those I�ve shared thoughts with over the last few years and share a big pot of chilli (with or without beans). Now, I don�t think I would enjoy it, or be especially welcome. Besides, some may forget that there are laws concerning this now and decide to burn one more Baptist on the woodpile. We might be in season come spring.

It's a matter of saying, "I think you're wrong". It's also a matter of being able to rationalize your stand point. That does not have to happen with disrespect attached. As a Baptist I have to have Biblical backing for beliefs.

For example, I saw a program on T. V. in which a Nun was speaking. She said that if someone did not believe in the divinity of Mary or rejected the authority of the Pope they would go to hell. She stated that it was a tenant of the church, yet gave no Biblical foundation. I just caulk it up to unsubstantiated opinion. She certainly has a right to that opinion and I would discuss it with her, and I would tell her I thought she was wrong. I'm sure she would say the same to me. Hopefully we wouldn't attack one another. It's not like we are sunni and shia muslims and will slit each others throats.

One of the first texts that I studied as a theology student, an encyclopedic guide to church doctrines, made the point that much of traditional church doctrine was hammered-out on the anvil of heresy. IOW, they were formulated specifically to refute specific heresies that had arisen.

Further study revealed the basic flaw in that process � formulating basic doctrine from within the dim caverns of personal understanding rather than from careful study of God's revelations of Himself and His will.

Further study also revealed that many "heresies" were in fact scripturally sound � that the church doctrines that were intended to refute them were in fact contrary to God's revelations of Himself and His will.

Whatever anyone's personal opinion or understanding may be, the only ones that count are God's � and they aren't always automatically obvious to personal meditation or committees' decisions.

Ken,

I often wonder if it's so simple that all we talk about is frosting on the cake. That the simple belief of Chist as savior is the only thing important, and that the smaller things, and rituals, are just fluff.

In a worldwide organization with +/- a billion members, there is a wide diversity of theological belief. The new Pope has been trying to reel in some of the crackpots. Agree or disagree with authentic Catholic teaching but that nun was one of them.

Authentic or crackpot?

I have been a member of the Catholic church for about 10 years, I have never once heard in mass or RCIA anything about The Virgin Mary being divine.
I believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, end of story.

Ricky,you rabble-rousing troublemaker,stop it right now !

You've got it, Garry!!! You've GOT it!

Penny

Exactly.

NOT "exactly" . I see it that way, but some see the rituals as being the essence or at least essential.

And that's the way the "bashings" start.

If folks want to add stuff to what's essential, that's their call. But if we all agree on the essential (Jesus Christ crucified and risen), then we all have something in common to celebrate.

When Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door, I tell them that I am already a believer and a member of a church. But I tell them, "God bless you for going door to door for Him when you could be sitting at home watching TV."

I don't have to be the same denomination as someone to love them in Christ, and support them in their work for God.

What we believers on the Campfire need to do is to go feed the homeless together or do some other work for the Lord... that will bind us together pretty quickly, and no one will want to argue theology.

Penny

I ain't and I ain't.

Ms.Penny;re your post :

EXACTLY!

Sanlen the one thing that I always liked about your posts is they always made the reader think.

Steve

Pretty full of yourself huh?

CATC was dominated by a small group of people who took delight in attacking those that didn't agree. No bashing? Just disagreements?



Thats the feces that was slung there - and you and others on your side of the fence kept quiet. Sure IIRC there were 2 (wow 2) posts saying it might be a bit strong, no apology came from it tho. That same individual also posted calling Mary a wh**e. Now I call your mother that ans the place here would explode - he could call the mother of CHRIST that and no one said anything. But there was no bashing right ? Just disagreement over beliefs.

I never told anyone they had to renounce their life and become Catholic - simply asked that they live how they claim to be - Christian and treat me (us) with the same respect that we have afforded them.

As to the sticky item - people insulted Rick by their posting - deeply. He placed the stickies there and didn't get in the conversation that followed - simply put them out there as "this is what we believe". Some could not accept that dunno why. I mean how many times do I need to tell someone who never was RC but "knows a guy" that what they think I believe is wrong? No I am wrong - because I don't know my own mind?

Mac - that wasn't the first time I posted on Medjugorje - I hung a thread about it once - back in 03 or very early 04 and my pm box filled up with 2000 ways I was going to hell.

This is what Rick posted down there:



Nothing there says we are gonna protect Catholics and burn the rest.

RickBin,

I will say that I am going to miss "Christ at the Campfire". I did enjoy sharing my faith with others and learned a great deal in some of the more "heated" discussions.

As an Orthodox Christian and non-Protestant, I felt many of those barbs that the Roman Catholics felt. My faith saw me through them and I would continue to engage in the conversations. Some of the "sparring" also made me research some view points that were different than mine and helped stregthen my own beliefs.

Thank you for creating CATC and allowing it to go on as long as you did, even though it pained you to do so. It was not all in vain.

God bless you,

Dan