Cuzz I don't see it.

Can't be the second coming. Must be the first going.

Someone cross a line once to often?

Me neither....
Not that I look down there much....

Thats funny that your the first person here to make a coment about it. I've never read any posts in Christ at the Campfire so I dont know how much trafic it got. Mabee the heathens out number the bible thumpers around the campfire.

Jamie

At least they finally got me looking for Christ....

Interesting choice of words Bart<the down part>

TFF!

Like the ticker line too

Golly, .....it IS gone.

I was in church this AM ( enjoyed every minute)....

mostly do the prayin' / invocatin' out in the garden, seems more natural like.

mebbe it's a kompooter glitch?

GTC

I'm about to start a brand new website called 24hour_antiCatholic.com.

I figured why distract from a perfectly nice hunting and shooting website with the weekly bloodletting of Catholics from the cheap seats.

This way, we can do the anti-Catholic thing on time, all the time ... oh wait, wasn't that CATC???









I was tired of the chickensh!t operators.

Rick

Sweet, Lions in the Collosseum again. Time for another beer....

I should have taken the advice of the variety of much better Christian men than I (many of them Protestant) who called it hopeless years ago.

They were right.

I will not sponsor bigotry.

rb

LMAO!

So much for the conversion of Steelhead.

And just when it seemed they were making real progress.

Frankly, I'm semi-neutral, as I was unaware of what was going on. If it was what you say it was, I'm with you.

EVERYBODY has a sore spot. Stuff we shouldn't mess with or post about.

I've ALWAYS respected that.

Expecting the same right about now from some of you.

rb

I'm behind you Rick. I'll sip on a glass of Mogen David and leave this thread.

I'm pouring a Laphroaig to join you.

Thank you sir.

rb

I'm actually drinking an Alaskan Amber, but what the hell. I'm Jewish after all, not Jew.......

Scotch poured.

To your health.

rb

I'm now drinking Gin out of a sheep horn, back at ya!

To EVERYBODY'S health.

I should drink more often.

Amen!

I've never seen so many employed people getting tanked on a Sunday night.

Good thing about the Sabbath being on Friday...

Yeah, that way a fella gets the whoooole weekend off!!!

Steve

It must have been the burning spruce.

We had a freakish storm Friday night with lightning. Not something you experience around here very often. I was lurking on the campfire and suddenly we had thunder and lightning.

I ran around the house unplugging TV's and other electonics. Then returned to my dining room and looked out the window to find a tree or two on the hillside about a mile away lit up like candles. Everything else around them untouched. I immediately checked my powerball ticket for Friday but it was not happening here.

For a rain forest it's something you don't see everyday or ever.

Ric,
You have my support.

Don't the olives get stuck down in the skinny part?

Sycamore

Good on you, Rick.

But what are the fellas who posted only at CATC, like Sanlen and the others, gonna do? Hopefully, they are hunting/shooting guys like the rest of us and will join in up here. Or maybe not.

Anyway, you done good. Badnasty cannot go on forever.

Steve

That was some crazy weather, wicked lightning here.

Good to see you out and about so late Steve.

Yeah, this old fart is up waaaay past bedtime; getting ready for a big day tomorrow. We're going to the beach. Taking the wife and the Scottie dog and the Duramax.

Life is good.

Steve

I can't let you guys be the only ones, I having a glass of Carolina Moonshine.

Tried Moonshine one time at Christmas, found out I can be a mean drunk. Also found out wife can be much meaner than I. Won't go near the stuff anymore.

CK

Was it the skillet that she used on ya or the 2x4?

What a shame that a forum that was meant for fellowship and edification became instead a forum for flagellation and execration.

Hey, Rick!

Why not leave it as it was, with a more accurate title � "Anti-Christ at the Campfire?"

Come on Ken, won't work either way. I have lived long enough and I know you have too to know that public displays of religion always invite thunder and lightening.

While true worship is inspired of God all religion is man made. Way too many surface hard religionist take offense if everybody don't see it the just the way their boy thought it out.

Jihad Jihad.

BCR

All I can say Rick, is "thy will be done".

Good to hear. Very good! I did a lot of looking myself and always came back to the same One. Give a shout anytime. I love talking with people about Christ.

I followed the goings on down there with the casual interestedness that I did the optics forum. I'd check in and see the fighting and usually move on. Asked a couple of questions. Some of them actually got answered.

That religion thing is a tough nut to crack in a public dialogue. Very, very, very, VERY few passionate believers can accept the differences in beliefs without confusing them with evil or immorality. It is a very rare man that can believe in God and a divine purpose for man without drinking the Kool-Aid of sectarianism. It is part of God's economy. Just as we will accept the truthfulness of whatever religion presented to us in our youth and rarely ever question the roots of it very deeply.

It was a good try Rick. No one can fault you for not giving it a hell of a try.

Will

I am a believer of the first water but I never went to that forum. Too much arguing and you cannot argue people into Heaven. Jesus, the Christ, said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me." The believer's job is to lift up Jesus and he does the rest. All I can do is tell about Him when the Holy Spirit leads me. If the Holy Spirit doesn't lead then it's best to be quiet.

I heard somebody suggest once that back in the second century when the Christians tossed the Jewish believers out of the Church, instead of treating them as the fathers and elder brothers in the faith that they should have, they called down upon themselves the curse of disunity that plagues them to this day, and is the reason that Judaism has three major denominations and Christianity has hundreds--or even thousands, depending on how you divide them.

An interesting perspective, I thought...although I think it might also have something to do with a message that was designed for a holistic Hebraic understanding being picked apart by Hellenists.

Anyway, there are folks who can push a pin through a Bible and tell you without looking which word contains the hole on every page, but who will never understand the message in the book until they have an opportunity to do some kind of service or missions work with folks from a variety of denominations.

The decision is both right and courageous.

The forum "Christ at the campfire" had been perverted, which is too bad because there were also good things in it.

Sorry to hear this Rick ..... I personally thought it was in the right place when it was first in the forums list and I for one was impressed with that. I've prayed for your leadership before because of the struggles you must face. I know you prayerfully considered this move and most will respect it. I hope that the good will overcome ... there was a lot of that there too ... may it continue else where.

Bigotry
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.
The origin of the word bigot in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of "religious hypocrite", especially a woman. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false.

Absolutely no offense Rick but does this mean other forums will leave as well ? (grin)

The 'looking' I was referring to was "Where did Christ at the Campfire go"...

and you proved it by killing the CATC forum ...

i have made many friends - not just acquaintances - here. but i will miss all of you. i simply cannot countenance this move, rick, by continuing here as a member.

the cyber-toasting of the decision is beneath contempt.

i will not look back in here to see if this post is deleted. i have shaken 24campfire's dust from my sandals, just as you have shaken from your sandals the dust of the great Forgiver.

Jesus hung around with scum. But you yourself do not see fit to hang around with fundamentalist scum like myself.

mercy, i almost made to 8,000 posts ...

now this site will be removed from my favorites list.

if any of you care to jot it down cyberly, here is my e-mail address: [email protected]

Dang, I'll miss your nasty pms to me.

What was the CATC forum?

Christ at the Campfire

[quote=Boggy Creek Ranger]Come on Ken, won't work either way. I have lived long enough and I know you have too to know that public displays of religion always invite thunder and lightening.

While true worship is inspired of God all religion is man made. Way too many surface hard religionist take offense if everybody don't see it the just the way their boy thought it out.

Jihad Jihad.

BCR"

James, as I have said, you are my favorite Texas philosopher and you've hit it on the head once again. Best, John

Amazing thought process. Simply amazing............

See ya fish

I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER.
SO SAD.....

Dave

Yup, lost the forum to bash those who believe very slightly differently, so it's time to quit.

Gee, I thought the reason behind the Campfire was total respect of others, sharing and learning from our minor differences. No matter if it's hunting, shooting, or just plain hanging out .... that is what the Campfire IS.

At least to most of us.

Steve

Good riddance to both.

Fish280, I found nuggets on CATC that were of great value to me. I apologize if any of my flip remarks about it were offensive to you.

I would say by all the religious Topics today that the "Christ at the Campfire Forum" has integrated with the "Hunters Campfire Forum" !

This could get interesting.............!


Mark

Hard to see Rick nuked CATC but it was overdue. Odd, people are going to vilify a person about "bigotry" because they weren't allowed to show theirs.
Nuking CATC had nothing to do with whatever faith you professed but how you treated those that professed something other than yours. If you can not see that , you really must have been blind then - or at the least a closet supporter of the bigotry that was slung around.

Nice.

Nah, the couple of head cases on that forum won't last long under the true light of the 'Fire...

Thanks Scott, evidently I never visited that forum

\

They NEVER came on the rest of the Campfire, anyway. Just argued, cut 'n pasted Scripture and called everybody else names.

Steve

,... but it was fun when Robert Tilton dropped by.

One post he'd be typing in tongues,... the next he'd be hittin' old ladies up to send him their life savings,...

Be like, "Humbatta su uncleeup do deeee."

Then,... "Let's have that money granny!"

I never participated in CATC as I am not religious and fundamentalist religions of ALL types tend to bore and irritate me. However, I have always found Fish280 to be a hell of a good guy here and I am sorry that he is leaving, hope he re-considers and returns.

We are ALL "headcases"to some extent, or, we wouldn't be here, endlessly debating politics about which we cannot really do much; or, indulging in ballistic gack that means zipola on 99% of our hunts. "Vaya con Dios", Fish, hope you come back.

Ken, everytime you type I have to "google it".....grins

Boy----it is starting to get ugly now. This will make everything else look like a Sunday Picnic when it gets rolling. Have my popcorn ready and before this is finished many will be telling the others who do not conform to their beliefs that they are going to hell. Just wait and see ---- kind of sad actually but religion and politics are both like alcohol --- to be taken in moderation because if taken in excess it tends to make people argumentative and mean spirited.

Fish did have a good heart and I will miss him.

I only looked at the CATC forum a few times.
It seemed pretty nasty and argumentative(okay, not as bad as the optics forum!)
However,I hope that Fish and others that may be offended by Rick's decision will reconsider and stay around the Fire.

Rick, I admire you for making what must have been a difficult decision.

I thought things softened quite a bit after Rick's warning but I guess I missed something.

I never noted any bigotry espoused by fish. Nor would I call him a closet supporter of bigotry. Just the opposite. I remember many times fish sticking up for others and calling for unity and peace.

I believe he enjoyed the good aspects of CATC, and there were many, and this is his reaction to it's demise.

It is quite interesting noting the reactions of others most of whom never hung one post on that forum. Quite interesting indeed! But also quite predictable.

Fish,

All I can say is I will miss you and hope you reconsider.

Well dern,

I had just discovered 'Christ at the Campfire', and thought it was a pretty cool place for believers with the outdoors in common.

Of course I am a Southern Baptist from a family of Baptists/Pentecostals/Catholics/Jews. No wonder it felt like home,perhaps being new I missed some of the nastiness that came before I started reading.

Oh well, maybe we'll treat each other better when similar issues come up in other places on the site.

Britt

Ricky - the man is complaining that a place of hate and intolerance was shut down. That speaks volumes to me. It was good for a while and it seemed to make that curve back to more bashing of those who don't believe exactly as some others do.

You had to know that this was a very real possibility, given our earlier discussions.

You and I both know Rick didn't shut the doors there because fundamentalists were posting - its what they were posting to others that got the door shut.

My daddy said that flaggelation would make you go blind. I just did it until I had to wear glasses

Steve

Well it is Ricks decision, but if he was offended at what was going on at CATC that is his choice to be offended. No body can be offended unless they choose to be. If this is the case maybe politics should be forbidden and definitely all discussion on optics should be a no-no, my god talk about nasty stuff, but as I said it is Rick's decision right or wrong.

Steve

I actually read a topic or two there. I enjoyed DogZapper's lessons especially. It was interesting to note the following:

1.) There was a post recently here about mormons that was very civil and went several pages (relating to Romney IIRC)
2.) At the same time there was also a mormon post in CATC that was an absolute bloodbath.

Maybe Steelheads comment about the "true light of the fire" is on the money....

There is alot of truth there.
In the beginning
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ysop&topic=0&Search=true#Post593

Teal you think that CATC is the only forum with HATE and INTOLERANCE here? You have got to be JOKING! Go over to custom rifles and make a negative comment about a AI cartridge or go to the optics forum and say something negative about Leupold or Swarovski optics, and stand your ground and before long you will be cut to pieces. Yes tolerance is practiced on all forums. RIGHT!

Steve

That is how you saw it. He obviously didn't. Nor did I. There were times when things were posted that should not have been, but that is true in every forum here or elsewhere. I was on the receiving end of some very nasty posts myself. What others say does not change who you are. At least that's how I looked at it.

I wonder if that was because the side of the fence he was on was the one tossing the mud?

Insulting a man's choice of cartridge or glass is one thing - insulting a man's religion to someone who holds their religion dear is another - kin to someone insulting your family.

Lots of people cried that Stick should be banned as it's Rick's site and he can do it as he sees fit, this is his sandbox etc. Well Rick posted a huge warning about the Catholic bashing - it wasn't heeded so CATC is gone.

Me too!

Oh, well!

"Great peace have they which love thy law: and NOTHING shall offend them." Psalm 119:165

The above verse was not a cut and paste, it was typed long hand from memory. That's probably why the punctuation is off a bit. And NOTHING is in upper case.

I tried my best to stop the bickering there and bring those who posted into brotherhood but I gave up. It is sad but I think Rick did the right thing. There was more harm done in the form of poor witness than the good that showed up from time to time as witnessed by many of the above comments.

I have long felt we Christians will not be effective until we forget the minor differences in the way we choose to worship and band together as Brothers in the Lord. My message fell on deaf ears at Christ at the Campfire.

I pray the hateful words spoken there will be forgotten and the fellowship that happened there will long live in the hearts of those who called that forum home. Perhaps there will be lessons learned from the closing of the forum.

Now, let us get on with life.

Teal, Stick was banned not a forum.

Steve

Rick, You need to find a way to flag the forums that have the good fights going on. So many times I don't know about them until they're over

Exactly how Jesus would've responded!

see revision below.***

How I view this.
This is Rick's house. We pay no money to come here. We are invited guests. If the owner of the house doesn't like what's going on, inside his house, he has the right to do something about it. Rick didn't like what was going on in CATC, so he decided to close it.
One thing to consider, and that is this place is a place for shooters, hunters, and outdoorsmen to camp out. It's for people from all walks of life to visit, not just Christians, although many Christians atted daily meetings here. But, the Campfire is not just limited to Christians. Our bond is establised, and maintained, by our love for most all aspects of the outdoors. That bond is not one based on one particular religion.
Also, I see no problem in having a thread started here on the Campfire about a specific subject concerning one, or any religion. The Mormon thread is a good example, and it was conducted out of a context of respect, just like Teal's thread about the Pope visiting Denver in 1993; that was a good thread too.
I can always chime in on a Muslem bashing thread, anyday..
If you choose to leave because of a decision Rick made, so be it.

Don

+1

hey fish, if you're still reading...
i have a little difficulty with equating the discontinuation of an internet forum with turning one's back on the Almighty...
i do not see the need to hash out my beliefs in an encapsulated and isolated forum...
i am a believer, and a biblical fundamentalist...
even if i am a little rough spoken for the taste of some in my community...
watch me where i live everyday... and i do not reside inside the church house.....

Back in the day, Christ at the Campfire was cool. Things changed once the folks showed up who thought it was ok to condemn others to hell based on what doctrine they were.

Shipster - Rick pulled the forum but not the discussion. No one says we can't talk about religion anywhere else. But what Rick is NOT going to do is provide a specific area for people to do what was being done.

If you are gonna bash someone based on their religion - do it where EVERYONE is going to see it - hang that bad boy right out in the open here on the general forum - let ALL of us see what a bigoted jerk you are (you in general not specific sense). Granted there was no secret handshake to get into CATC but many here never visited and thus didn't see some of the garbage posted there. I believe was posted there because the poster felt safe doing it there.

The move to nuke CATC is a long time coming. The primary reason, as stated, is my refusal to sponsor anti-Catholic bigotry.

If you take my stated reason not to support anti-Catholicism any longer as bigotry toward Fundamentalist, then that is you skewing things. How does protecting Catholicism hurt Fundamentalists anyway?

Sad to see you go fish, but I will not create a forum for Catholic bashing, and not allowing such a forum is not any kind of jab toward Fundamentalists (nor Mormons, nor Anglicans, nor Lutherans).



So by nuking CATC I have now abandoned Jesus?

Fish, I think you're needlessly entangling things.

Teal, exactly Stick was banned not a forum.

I wasn't commenting on Stick getting banned vice CATC - I was making the comment that so many supported Rick for banning Stick using the rational that this was Rick's sandbox. IT STILL IS and if he pulled the plug on CATC then we should be able to handle that the same way - it's Rick's sandbox.

Well, this opens the door for Islam at the campfire. Steve

Shipster, its a big WWW. 0ut there, Go start your web site run it how you will. We will all drop by now and then.

I'm not even Catholic and I found the anti-Catholic bigotry on CATC to be a little disturbing. So if the practicing Catholic WHO OWNS THE SITE chooses to flush the turd, who am I to argue?

Fish 280.
I met you once and you seemed a decent guy.
that cheep shot while going out the door was beneath you.

But I suppose I am just burning electrons here as you will nether read this or return, being a man of your word.

Tracks wasn't nothin good about those fights.

fish is.

Nice guy, but dead wrong on this one.

Nuking CATC was not an attack on anyone.

rb

Just another section of the forums that I never visited.

Certainly there are 8 billion religious forums on the net one could go join if they want to pound their beliefs into others.

Yes I believe I acknowledged that in a previous post.

I was pointing out that the trouble maker (Stick) was taken care of and not a specific forum. Not everybody at the CATC was bashing Catholics only a couple, and they should have been dealt with and not the forum. IMHO. That's all

Rick I understand that you felt that something should be done. So you did. But there was also a lot of good stuff that went on there and that's the part that most of the CATC posters will miss.

Steve

Been out fishin lately Rick?

We hammered the salmon on Lake Michigan last Wednesday.

An interesting thing... Teal put it that 'insulting a man's religious beliefs is akin to insulting his family'.

I do not question the validity of his statement. I think my experience bears this out. But it does raise a very interesting point: what about those of us who fit into a different category?

I mean as a deist I am getting sent to hell in a hundred different ways! Telling someone that their belief system is evil, or the spawn of The Great Satan, is sure to cause hard feelings. But the funny thing is that no one seems to consider it offensive unless it is directed at another denomination. Occasionally we offer the same courtesy to those of another religion.

I'm not complaining, just musing out loud I guess.

It is very difficult to truly see from another's point of view. Is it any more profane to tell, or imply, that someone is going to hell than to opine that their belief system is superstition? I truly do not know. But I know which one will get you in hot water more quickly.

Ah well, at least now maybe some of you can grasp why religious discussions are forbidden within the confines of a Masonic Lodge that is called to order. Even when one of the prime tenants of the fraternity is tolerance for those of different belief systems, you still have some subjects which are just too hot to handle.

So don't take it too badly. This subject has been causing hard feelings for a few thousand years. We are rich in that tradition.

Will

Ken,
I fail to understand your point here... When would Jesus have left? Would he have accepted the Cathollic bashing and left with fish? The way I see the under-riding commandment it is all about a single litmus belief; Sect, church, cult, orthodoxy be damned.

I suspect Jesus would have left sooner...
art

Steve:

I understand completely, and I agree. I didn't come to this conclusion suddenly. I've been resisting calls to nuke the place for over two years specifically because there is so much positve, maybe I should add, so much MORE positive stuff that can happen.

Consider this: 24hourcampfire is my pride and joy, and I am a practicing Catholic. How bad does it suck NOT to have a forum dedicated to Jesus Christ in acknowledgement of the blessings he has bestowed.

Believe me, I've resisted this long and hard. And guess, what, all I have to do is hit a switch and the forum and all its content is still there.

But I will not sponsor anti-Catholic bigotry anymore.

IMO - Ken was being sarcastic. I believe he was trying to point out that Jesus woulda stuck around and made it a better place rather than leave (give up on people). JMO - based on the smirk emoticon.

Maybe Rick should install an "Abortion" column for those that are going to miss arguing over the net.

Never understood why people need to make a huge announcement they are leaving. Just go, why all the drama? I am sure it is so they can come back and read all the resulting posts looking for an ego boost.

Nothing more needs to be said one way or another. EOD !!!!!!

teal
Yeah, you are probably right... With the morning sun backlighting my monitor the emoticons are only there, not emoting specifically at all.
art

I understand Rick

Thanks
Steve

I was going to reply to Steelhead's "Where is CATC" thread last night, and decided instead to sleep on it. I saw this thread first thing this morning, and so decided to reply here.

The question in my mind (and, of course, Rick is under no obligation to answer it), is "Why did you nuke the whole forum? Why not just warn (and then expel) the folks who were Catholic-bashing?"

I went to bed last night with a great deal of sadness on my heart. I'll admit to not visiting CATC very often, but I did occasionally go there. I went there when I wanted to find a group of "my people," a group who would understand what I meant when I said that I had seen Christ in someone, a group who would know exactly what I meant when I said that I love the Lord with all my heart and soul, who would nod their heads in agreement when I said that Christ is at the center of Barak's and my marriage.

I'm not saying that those folks aren't sprinkled in at the other forums as well. But there were times I posted God-centered things that I wanted to share, and I felt that they might have been "too much God" in another forum... I don't know.

I always thought that if people misbehaved, then the people responsible were chastised. I wouldn't fail my whole class if a couple of students cheated on an exam.

Right now I am still very sad. In so many places in this world I see Christianity belittled, and non-Christian groups working hard to eliminate us. Now it seems to me that it has happened here at the Campfire... yet the one who did it is indeed a Christian. In order to punish a few individuals, we are all to lose. I don't really understand that, and it hurts me. It hurts me a lot.

I understand this is Rick's decision, and I support his right to do anything he wants to here. But I did want to let everyone else know what my feelings are. CATC was often God's way of connecting those of us who are believers with those who are not, but who are seeking. People come there to ask questions they would not dare to ask on another forum. I am sorry to see that go.

Penny

Bush did it to take the heat off of Zumbo.

I didn't see the squabblin' down there,.. but I've noticed that fundies can be knotheaded,...

Quit going there a long time ago (Christ at the Campfire) got tired of the Bigotry there and this from a guy that likes to stir the pot a little bit at times when it comes to Religion.

I can remember the times I had years ago when I worked with two Booz, Allen Hamilton Consultants, one was a Jesuit Priest on a years sabbatical from the priesthood and the other one came from a background of his dad being an Orthodox Jew and his mom being an Fundamentalist Baptist and being raised in both religions. Both were brilliant men, but I'd love to bring up a hypothetical religious question and then sit back and watch the fireworks begin.

Case in point those encounters where far more entertaining than the encounters that went on here at Christ at the Campfire. So Congratulations Rick as there are two things that are best to be left alone and that is Religion and Politics, as it's a No Win Situation discussing either Subject. Just go look at this thread and any of the Threads going on concerning Ron Paul. I rest my case......

Oh?,...

I see lots of disagreements in the threads concerning Ron Paul,.. but they're fairly civil, overall.

Stan V blows a little snot a coupla times a day,... but other than that,.....

Steelhead, 99% of the time I love your humor and am happy to see you joking. But this time, please realize that what has happened has hurt a lot of people... most of them not guilty of Catholic-bashing. Stop trying to make a joke out of this situation. It is not a joke to many... and certainly not to Rick, who I imagine put in a lot of thought on this one.

Let those of us who are hurting hurt in silence without being jabbed, please.

Penny

IMO that was a poweful post Penny. Maybe I use humor to much and it can be taken the wrong way especially on the Internet, but I like this one�..I heard it as a Baptist joke but feel free to insert the domination of you own choosing to be the butt of this one�.

A man had been stranded on a deserted island for many years. When a rescue crew finally showed up one day they were amazed at the skill the man had shown making comfortable shelters for himself. When asked what the main buildings were for he replied...

�Well this one is my home and this one is my church�� When asked what the third structure was he replied, � Oh that one �. that was the Church I had to leave��

We humans sure can mess up a good thing�FWIW YMMV�.

Fundies ain't got that market cornered by a long shot.

Penny:

I share your sadness. Just to clarify, I did NOT nuke CATC to punish any individuals.

I nuked CATC because I was tired of the anti-Catholic theme and no amount of cajoling or suggestions seemed to make a dent in eliminating it.

That is a funny joke, 2ndwind. Unfortunately, it is all too true, which is what makes it funny.

I guess it is because Barak and I have for so long (12+ years) been so involved in Kairos that talking about denominational differences just doesn't make any sense to me. It is the individual's relationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ that is important... NOT the denomination. The denomination is where a believer feels comfortable... sort of like an old pair of jeans and t-shirt, vs. a suit and tie. Some fit some, some fit others.

I am a Trainer for Kairos Prison Ministries International, and a component of the advanced leader training that I do focuses on what Kairos is... and what it isn't. ALL things (yes, all things) that are denominational aren't part of Kairos. (This is sometimes hard for very dedicated volunteers to understand.) Those are things that divide us. Kairos embraces our "common ground," all things that unite us. That winds up being the blood of Jesus Christ and our relationship with God. We don't do communion or baptism or pray the rosary in Kairos. Those are all good things, wonderful things. They just aren't Kairos' things.

It would be nice to have a forum where the Lord could be lifted up, and we could all celebrate together what we have found in Jesus. People posting should ask themselves, "Does this post unite or divide us?" And then either post or delete accordingly.

No matter which forum I post on, I always ask myself, "Does this post glorify God?" It is a good question to ask, every single time. I admit to having had to bite my tongue (sit on my hands????) a couple of times. But what I would have posted would not have been good.

Just my 2�... YMMV.

Penny

I feel a little guilty because I did not go there more. There are probably others who feel the same way. In essence, we left it in the hands of the "bashers" and they defined it.

I still don't understand why the perpetrators couldn't have just been expelled, leaving the forum... But that is your decision, and I know it hurt you to do what you did, and I respect you and am not trying to change your mind or argue with you. Just trying to understand...

Penny

Penny:

Your PM box is full.

PM incoming.

rb

Yikes! Thanks, Rick.

Penny

Penny
Banning is something that almost never happens here for the very reason he was hurt so deeply by the Catholic bashers. 24hour is about inclusion. There is almost no moderating and no threads are ever deleted (commercial plugs being the exception).

Fish's comment that his thread would get deleted represents his WISH, which of course would never happen. He needs to believe there are forces out to get him. The philosophy of the Worthy Adversary. Satan must be wildly powerful and omnipresent, lest he not be worth avoiding.

Banning posters is simply the last of the last resorts...
art

Penny, have you seen this thread about the "stages" of faith?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...owflat/Number/1602712/page/1#Post1602712

No, I haven't yet... but I will. I've got to get off the computer and get downstairs and finish addressing my daughter's wedding invitations!

Penny

Do the important stuff, Sister Penny. The rest will sort itself out.

for example:

That board which I used to post at quite often became as un-Christian as you can get a lot of the time. I don't blame Rick one bit for pulling the plug.

From the first, I've felt that CATC was out of place here � like pews and hymnals at Bass Pro Shops.

.

.

+1

You are in luck, there are bound to be a plethora of God botherer sites available............now, CAN we get back to something more interesting, possibly even a good brouhaha about politics.

Don't let the door hit you in the azz on the way out...

i personally enjoyed the forum very much, albeit times that i posted and couldn't buy a response. but anyways, on some posts the dialogue was useful, instructive, and showed considerable thought.

maybe we've evolved past the day to day arguments, and are ready for a true Spiritual forum? i don't know, just trying to understand this internet thingy, and find a way to make the most use of the power that it possesses?

not my forum at all, i'm a lowly member, nothing else, but it'd be a shame to leave a lot of good ideas beached, marooned, and even abandoned.

anyways, i enjoyed the forum, even if we didn't all agree. nowhere in the contract said we had to.

There is humor in everything, methinks most would do better to find it.

Just clearing up Ricky's response, didn't want any false assumptions.

Don, that is a good post.

Eventhough this is Mr. Ricks house and I will forever respect that but I to fill the way you do Mrs. Penny I won't get into a big post war on this, because what was said here was well said and I need not say anything, but what I will do amongst my shortcomings is pray for the ones that did go to CATC for help and guidence and also for the ones that was trying to start mess there to as well, like what was said earlier I wished things would have been handled differently but this is Ricks deal and I wholeheartedly respect that..

Ken, I am confused are you a non-believer

Ken is far from a non-believer.

I ain't got nothin' against Catholics,.. in fact, I'm married to one.

But lawd have mercy!,.. I just ain't got the knees to convert!

I've always been a Methodist. We stand up in church evah now and then and sing a song or two, but every time I go to mass,... 'bout time I get comfortable, it's time ta fold up and kneel on the padded rail on the pew in front of ya.

Last time I went to mass,... I thought they was gonna have ta bring a cherry picker in ta lift me up and carry me out the door.

,... and they won't gimme a cracker either,...

You mean it was worse than the E posse?

Dang, I don't think I ever visited that forum.......

Casey

________________________________________________________

Ken,
Kind of an odd statement..seeing as how both you an I have posted and listened and taught and been taught-ministerd to on that forum more than once in the past years....

Your experience, humor and relationship with Christ were always appreciated...but I agree, that hymnals & pews at BassPro aren't much edifying..:)

I had not been active on that forum for some months for personal reasons...maybe I had just said my testimony and exhorted often enuf and preferred to not know any more 0of just how sorry some who confess Christ are..at least in cyber world..

I never had any issues with Fish..THO we didn't always agree..and will miss him on the forums and think his exit in this manner was unnecessary.
RickBin,
This is your board..and whatever you do is your decision.
I do agree with a few that found some good on that form..for all the personal or denominational attacks that one occassionally witnessed.

One of my favorite sayings regarding anything that folks endeaver to do AND when they meet trials and opposition:

IF this was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Not everyone will hear nor follow Christ.

Let us hope that from the tone and nature of our postings and replies those who are wanting to follow Christ will see Him in us at times on the regular forums..JIM

Thanks Rick, I read though that forum one time. And as a Catholic had nothing to say and no quarrel with anyone. I never even opened it again. But I agree with you 100%.

it was inevitable that the forum was abused....
when the Christ walked the earth in person, He was abused, too...

i need no special forum to be a believer... i try to post with
Christ's way in mind on all forums...

the fire is not a place that i frequent to learn about God and his ways... what i've learned about God and his ways is entirely appropriate to use in my dealings at the fire.....

Jim:

It was not a quick decision.

Ken exhorted me to get rid of CATC over two years ago, due to the vitriol. Others who have my confidence were also pessimistic. I was pretty much the last holdout, for a LONG time. The anti-Catholic stuff really tested my patience, and when I realized it was not going away ... well, I will not sponsor sustained religious bigotry, plain and simple.

My apologies to those who had to endure it when I was ambivalent because it was not directed toward Catholicism. That was a very big error on my part, and I am truly sorry for my lack of empathy and awareness.

I am not Mormon, or a Jehovah's Witness, or Anglican, or Lutheran, or Orthodox, but I don't believe ANYONE has a right to bash any of these folks for what they believe. I have received PMs from representatives of each of these "denominations" in the past 24 hours expressing general approval, and recounting instances when they felt persecuted on CATC.

Again, to all those folks whose angst I missed in my self-centeredness, because I am sure there are more, I apologize. It shouldn't have happened, especially on my watch.

I don't fault you at all Rick. You've shown more tolerance than most. (I was raised Catholic and now am methodist and have taken hits for both).

Rick,

As with all of the forums, while you may choose to intercede as webmaster,

it is the responsibility of those who come here to manage their own selves and the forum content..

To be civil, tolerant,even when some posts or opinions run against what we believe or the perspectives of others seem foreign to what we have experienced.

I never figgered it was your job to manage me or anyone else..:)
It's OUR job to do that..and young or old, 'tis a good measure of men and women when they can do so..
Best regards, Jim

as a quick edit-postscript:
Daily I and others learn how that last measure of self control is to be better done in this cyber world where thoughts, and emotions travel so fast at the stroke of a finger..Hope we do better..at least that is my own goal here..J

If it's any consolation,.... it ain't gonna run me off.

Nothing will run you off...Not even you....

Bristoe, and yes even you Bart..:)

Hope ya stay around...:)Jim

That is what I thought Rick, but after googleing so many words in his posts I become confused

He confusicates me sometimes too.

I thought it was funny....Humor is good mostly....

How is this for religious tolerance<when you have a government agency with a name like,"the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice" you just have to know really bad stuff is going to happen>:

RIYADH (AFP) - A Bangladeshi man died of fright after being arrested by Saudi Arabia�s controversial religious police for washing a car instead of praying, a local newspaper reported on Sunday.

The unnamed man died last week in the holy city of Medina after being detained by members of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, Al-Jazirah reported.

The Arabic daily said the man �convulsed in fear after he was arrested, leading to a drop in his blood pressure and causing his death.�

The man was arrested by members of the commission, commonly known as the Muttawa, for washing a car during a time of day when he should have been at prayer, the paper said.

2ndWind,

What we post here in fast response in cyberworld and how we may personally feel in outrage might be quite different.
I am routinely outraged by many things I see and hear..but few will be changed or redone if I speak angrily on this forum.

Sometimes no response can be good.

Neither you nor I can control what men or women or governments do around this planet.

With a bit of effort, ( and faith with knowlege) we DO have some hope of controlling our own thoughts, actions and words so who we are and what we do and how we live builds rather than breaks stuff..Jim

I just got a PM from POP saying he had shipped my 270 wby dies [already got one set and only use one load - 130 xxx but the price was right ] and brass [ got enough already to last 30 years and I'm 65 ] .Courtesy of the classified forum .

Got to reading about the long barreled 1895 Marlins . I've got a 29 in. 458 douglas [ courtesy of the classifieds some years ago ] so the wheels are turning .Ain't shot the ol' Marlin in a year or two so I REALLY need to juice it up .

Like I told Steve : I started hanging out at the CATC forum because it was the CHEAPEST seat in the house !Never felt the urge to rush out and buy anything after reading on it.

Rick started it .Then he moved it .[ Used to " Top'o'the Heap .Remember?]Now he has knocked it in the head , and that's fine with me .{ Sounds better than ;" No skin off my *** !"}

BUT ; Having learned a thing or two about human nature , I fully expect a thread on the order of " The Pope is the anti-christ " or some such nonsense to pop up on this forum .

Got a " Plan B " Rick ?

What do you think?

rb

Good point Jim.....whenever I read stuff like "the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice" I get an itchy cut and paste finger....I'll try and cut back....some....

______________________________________________

Probably the same bullet in the chamber, cocked and locked and ready to rock feelin' I get when I read anything promulgating the 'orfice of homeland security' or the 'pat-idiot act'...:)Jim

I think the place belongs to you and you keep it up real nice . I also DON'T think you have to explain or defend your actions.

I think that you ought to lock these two PITA threads and start pissing and moaning about Ron Paul or why the Word Association thread won't die....Hell...Lock that one too....

no, you can't lock that one

I thought it was funny....Humor is good mostly....[/quote] +1...gotta find humor in as much as possible...keeps things on the light side..

Well the subject of "religious bigotry" and a double standard that is applied to Islam is bound to come up eventually, so.........

Islam has special status that none of the other major belief systems do. Islam bills itself as a comprehensive system that encomasses the legal and political organization of society, as well as the devotional, and the domestic. This makes them open to criticism that I for one would never level at Jews, Mormons, Baptists, Zoroastrians, or etc.

Bart Follow my lead.

I think this is a hunting/shooting and too a lesser extent fishing board, why not just keep it this way.

Good call Rick.

"It is the individual's relationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ that is important... NOT the denomination. The denomination is where a believer feels comfortable... sort of like an old pair of jeans and t-shirt, vs. a suit and tie. Some fit some, some fit others"

Mrs B,

I quoted you above and believe you to be spot on. I am RC and was also sick of the rhetoric at CATC. If others would have believed as you, we'd still have it. Seems some felt that Catholics were beneath them and never missed a chance to point that out. Some have even responded to this thread.

I'm of the school to each his own. Whether you roll with the Lord or not is for "you" to decide.


Mac

I looked at CATC twice...once to see what it said, and the second time to see if what nonsense I saw there was the norm. It served no useful purpose, IMO. I don't need loons screaming at me.

Remember your dancing/drinking thread? That was a doozy. So was Medjugore(sp). Proof positive of the "love".


Mac

"I thought it was funny � "

Reminds me of the city cop who thought that it was hilarious when a man tried to kidnap my young daughter on her way to school. It was hard to decide which feces-brain should be shot first. Things that hurt or threaten others are funny only to sick minds that aren't hurt or threatened by 'em.

Very well put sir!!!!

One frequent source of confusion for several good Campfire buddies is the urge to look under my words to see "what I really mean to say." I try to be precise and concise, to say exactly what I mean to say � no less and no more.

"The obvious is preferable to the obvious avoidance of it. � H W Fowler

Anybody remember what Jesus did to the fig tree that bared no fruit, in disbelief of the disciples?

Was it just catholic bashing or bashing in general. I didn't go the CATC, I have other forums for that. But I've much bias on these boards against every walk of life and faith, so why the statement "catholic bashing". Yet isn't bias part of being human.

I have to ask, Is it bashing to say that the divinity of Mary has no Biblical foundation? Or that praying to a "saint" is the same as praying to an idol? I don't think so, but I have my own beliefs. I respect the right of someone to believe differently from me, but I will not shrink from saying "I think you're wrong, or lost." I wish I had at least watched CATC so I would know Rick's stand.

THANK YOU!

Perfect, and from the perfect source.

Rick, no qualms here. Your sandbox; your rules, and there was a LOT down there that well.... didn't belong.

My Dad was also a believer in flagellation. He practiced it every day on me, usually until I bled. He died when I was 10, THANK GOD !!!. Because of him I never enjoyed my childhood, never did things with my Dad that other little boys should and certainly grew to HATE him for the way he treated me.

Well put sir! Remember Jim....I said cut back "some"

I know which one I'd have started with. I have yet to meet an officer of the law whom either knew or obeyed the law they profess to represent.

There's the rub garry, what makes you right and someone else wrong? How can you respect the right of someone believing differently than you, but in the same breath, tell them they're wrong?


Mac

I quit visiting CATC when it moved from the top to the lower end of the forum list. I'm guessing there wasn't a lot of discussion of the big theological controversies in the Episcopal church.....like whether you can wear white shoes after Easter or have to wait until Memorial Day, or whether you can only serve Mimosas at a morning christening or are Bloody Marys OK as well. Kind of glad I missed the excitement.

UH OH ! If you think the religious wars get hot , maybe you ain't been in a good LEO - bad LEO " debate !

Maybe you just started one !

Nah, just like with religion you're not going to budge either side. Not worth it.

George

It's your ball Rick, if we want to play we must follow your rules.

Pithy stuff going on in the Episcopal Church there Steve.....<Psst, which way do you think they are going to go on the Gay/Lesbian ordaniation thing?>

bxroads

Matthew 21:19......And he said, never again shall fruit grow on you. And the fig tree withered up at once.


Nail

I think the church is going to split. The Archbishop of Canterbury is going to be here next month (in New Orleans, considered neutral turf by the feuding groups). I don't see the poofter priest group backing down, and if they don't the fight over church property if the split occurs will be ugly and public.

The world-wide Anglican church simply cannot do its missionary work where the church's enemies can truthfully say they support buggery and even condone it in the hierarchy. We are in the midst of a search for a new rector, and you'd be amazed how many people act like that's not a significant issue.

No I wouldn't be amazed....sadly. Good luck with your search for the new rector.... that's always important, but in times of deep conflict even more so.

Mac --- You just have to give them the right to be wrong . I was pretty much a " Johnny One Note " on CATC .I said this over and over :

The human mind is incapable of comprehending a Self Existant Being . God must be " apprehended ".Even the early church fathers knew this . They described God only in the negative : Not this , not that .

Now in 2007 we had this forum where folks realized you couldn't "know" God's mind , but they were closer to it than you ! And they had the bible verses to back it up .

What some folks seemed to miss is that a man can't fulfill the Great Commandment with his head [ knowledge ],but with his heart .On judgement day we won't be asked WHAT we know but WHO we know !

I will say that in the last couple of weeks , posters of the Roman Catholic persuasion were given ample opportunity to explain some of the tenets of their faith .I personally didn't ask any questions but some questions were asked and asked in the same spirit that a Church of Christ member might be asked by a Baptist .I didn't get a chance to see the answers [ if they came ] because apparently someone crossed the line one too many times for Rick .

Couldn't have been me .

I was gone .

Rector? Darn near killed 'er.

Not sure why Roman Catholics, or anybody else, needs to explain the tenets of their faith to anybody. Seems to me to be pretty presumptive on the part of those asking for the explanation.

George

depends if the question is a product of curiosity..........ive questioned various employees of ours as to their beliefs but it was out of personal curiosity and nothing more........had a gal a few years back that was a Mormon...was interesting to sit and talk to her about her faith.

� Pagan Rome sicced lions onto Christians for public entertainment.
� "Let's you and him fight" was a favorite ploy of school-yard bullies when I was a kid.
� Michael Vick and his cronies, if allegations are true, sic dogs on each other as an organized spectator sport (and brutally kill those that don't do well).
� Some Campfire compadres have confessed that they like to set others at each others' throats, then to sit back and to enjoy the ensuing fuss.
� Some here have said that for them, CATC was a similar source of amusement.

Am I the only one here who sees all the above as essentially the same?

Am I the only one here who sees identical puerile cruelty in all of the above?

Like I said ; 'twern't me that asked!

I have never visited the site, but just reading between the lines...I think that as soon as it is demonstrated that warnings have force behind them, and the message is understood, the forum will most likely reappear.

Rattler,
I agree with that perspective. I'm not what most would call overly religious. I was raised Catholic but I had (have) some issues there as well. I've always been one to listen and learn from others' religions. Compelling others in a "mine is better than yours" is a lot different.

Personally, I never went down to CATC. I know where I stand and don't need others to tell me otherwise. Don't feel like telling anybody else where to stand either.

George

Gene,
Roger that, didn't mean to attack. Only meant to use the quote to make a point.

George

Asking average or typical laymen to explain the tenets of their denominations is a guaranteed path to confusion and misconception � like asking babies to explain reproduction from conception to parturition.

.

Not really,..

They're all the same, actually.

Deny everything,.. make counter accusations.

The southern baptists got it down to a "T".

No offense to southern baptists,... us Methodists have this long standing feud with them is all,....

i get what your saying Ken, still enjoy talking with ppl about their beliefs.......figure a candle light shown to me on their beliefs is far better than being in the dark.....

Only thing that seems to make sense to me about religion is the world would be much better off if folks kept their beliefs known but to them and their God. When people try to persuade others to their faith things get ugly. Often bloody. Sometimes they've wound up the main course in places peopled by heathens and savages. I suppose that tests the depth of one's faith, no?

Mebbe a really devout person would sacrifice themselves to their God to further the cause.

That's most of what I know about religion.

Pretty fair analogy, NOT...

No, you're not, Ken. You said what I was trying to convey much more eloquently.

Regardless of how each one of us feels about CATC, Fish280's message expressed pain and hurt and loss. To trivialize that or profess to find humor in it because "humor will make things better" is cruel. At least tell him you are sorry he is hurting (you all ARE sorry, aren't you????) and treat him with the dignity and respect he deserves as a member of the Campfire.

Thanks, Ken.

Penny

Funny, I didn't see Fish post on this thread.

But you are correct and I am so sorry he is hurting. I will pray for him and all of you in fact. God Bless us all, each and every person here.

Catholic bashing?....

My gosh, did no one think to contact Father Guido Sarducci....?

Penny don't worry we are everywhere on nearly every thread!

I quit going to CATC because every discussion seemed to either get as deep as advanced nuclear physics or turned to bashing, I am too simple minded and impatient for either. I just know Jesus died for my sins, was buried, resurrected and promised if I believed in him he would be back for me someday....that's enough for me


I've lived with him and without him, I prefer with him!


Mike

Where did the Bear Hunting Forum go?

Amen, amen, and amen, Mike! Me, too.

Penny

No, you're not...again! Bullies and b@stards are the same everywhere, and here is no exception.

To paraphrase Twain's wonderful sentence on "the right word," the difference between the typical layman's opinion (or understanding) and his denomination's doctrines is like the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning. Both are interesting in their own right, but they're not to be mistaken one for the other.

A particularly articulate secretary of mine, for example, was a Mormon with Southern Baptist notions that were perpendicularly cross-wise with Mormon doctrine.

Ok, I admit....that one was funny

And closer to the real topic, my wife is a big churchbanger, and I have come into close contact with many of the churched through her.

Taken as a whole, I ain't seen much difference in the churched and the unchurched, I'm not talking words, I'm talking actions, which is beliefs personified.

I do recall from my drinking days that the barroom crowd was a lot less critical of other folks in light of their own obvious flaws than was the case with the church crowd.

Got me to thinking that maybe Jesus hung out with who he did in part because he preferred the company.

Birdwatcher

In Jesus's day, there was a disparate community of ordinary people � the am ha'aretz (&#1506;&#1501; &#1492;&#1488;&#1512;&#1509;), "people of the land" � who could be characterized only by what they weren't. They weren't Pharisees � they weren't Sadducees � they weren't Herodians � etc. When all the identifiable categories were sorted-out and filled-up, what was left � unsorted and unsortable � was a passel of people who weren't like any other � or like each other. I call 'em "the et ceteras."

Jesus most often hob-nobbed with 'em, and some authorities believe that He was an am ha'aretz Himself. (Which wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.)

i guess Ken that ive always just understood i was talking about a persons own beliefs and the generalities of their chosen religion. im an amature student of psychology and human behavior.......tend to find an individual persons beliefs more interesting and informative than the religion itself...

rabble rouser......grin

Hey wait just a damned minute, you saying Stick was banned cuz he was Jewish?

Everything happens for a reason....it's a function....put in, get out. This place will survive, and morph.

Sucks, though....for those that lost something they enjoyed...cuz of a few A-holes.

HoundGirl

Pardon me, but where's all the Christian forgiveness. I'm seeing a lot of finger pointing over basically nothing.

Good question. Anyways the whole thread got me too fired up. It should have been something to make me feel good like the rest of the Campfire forms but often it didn't. Darn shame. Well at least I can still talk smack about those shooting .30-06 over .308. Or worse yet those thinking that Smallmouth are not the world's best fish.

Heck, everyone knows Pike are the Worlds Best Fish, to eat and for catching!

Most sane bar owners discourage talk about religion for a reason. Booz and god don't mix well. Mixing guns and booz or guns and god is also asking for trouble!

1B

I can't find the bear hunting forum either.

Follow the spoor.

It seems that there is never any change. While there were a few posts on the CATC forum that were hateful, the vast majority were not. In the course of time many groups were drug over coals about their belief system, including the Baptists in a very hateful way. Strange, no one seemed to complain about that too much, including the Baptists. But there was one constant that never changed, and it seems never will. Many, many times I stated that anyone is free to believe what they wish, but that does not mean that everyone else has to agree. My view of the forum was learning what others thought and believed. I never considered it something that might �change my mind� about something I believed, or that I would change others, just that in so doing we could learn about each other.

That kind of communication threatens some people. It seems they are not secure in a world where they can hear people who know and understand what they think, but have the audacity to disagree. Much of what has been said to be Catholic bashing was simply not agreeing with what some Catholics said. There were a couple of people who truly �bashed� Catholics, but others simply wanted a balanced conversation, and I think I fit into that group, though it would seem mine has been the only name that has been mentioned. I guess that being willing to allow others the freedom to believe and practice what they wish, but wanting that contrasted and compared with other ideas and what others believe is �bashing�. Interesting definition.

Dogzapper, there were several times I defended your right to believe and say what you wished, and stated that I enjoyed hearing what you had to say and hoped you continued posting. (And BTW, I have posted on quite a few of the forums, like AR, levers, pistols, etc., but I spend more time on some of the Marlin sites.) Neither you nor I expected me to agree with everything you said, but as I said several times, if all I heard were my opinions repeated how would I learn anything? Did I disagree at times, and say so? Yes, but telling the other side is not bashing. If what I did was �Catholic bashing�, then what you and others did in stating your ideas must also be considered �Baptist bashing�. How many times have I asked that we just agree to disagree and go on to some other topic where we could find more common ground? You will never know how many times I did not reply to pointedly anti-Baptist posts, decidedly slanted pro-Catholic posts, or attacks against me personally, all because they would either not be received in the way I would wish, or would simply cause more strife. I imagine that there were others, including Catholics, who could say the same.

I enjoy a good discussion, complete with evidence for and against ideas. This evidence is considered an argument for or against (not an �argument� in the terms of a fight). This is especially true for me with religion and politics, probably because it is impossible to do for most people. It seems most people can only fight about it and never consider the merits of the other side�s argument. Rick Bin, if you read the last post I made, which was never posted because the forum was already down (I usually entered the forum from favorites, or bookmarks, and from these you can still see the CATC forum, so I didn�t know it was down until I sent the post), I would think you would see that, but I am not sure now.

The reason I say that is because, as Fish280, I see a diabolical side to this. I see a side that simply got tired of being disagreed with, of not having what they said accepted simply because they said it. I don�t call it bigotry, however. To me it is censorship. While I agree it is your site, Rick, and you can do what you wish, I think to say CATC was shut down because of the bigotry there may have been a cheap shot, as is most of the �discussion� I�ve seen on this thread. To go by this would mean that you cannot have any real discussion on the Campfire. Disagree with Rick and he�ll pull the plug on you. By putting a sticker on threads such as the Pope�s views and explanations, which meant it would always be at the top, you actually placed it where people couldn�t avoid it, and incited more comments instead of just letting it die.

It seems that it is impossible for some to separate individuals from an organization. Funny thing is (though I�m sure that some will consider this �bashing�) by this action many simply had their opinions (whether true or false they will never know now) of Catholic individuals and the Catholic Church forever merged. I�ve already had people email me with complaints about how Catholics censor things they don�t like. Again, this is not necessarily what I think, but what has already been said to me. To them this is just another Inquisition with Rick as the Grand Inquisitor. �They don�t accept our beliefs? Turn them on the spic for a few minutes� that will teach them. Don�t agree with Catholic doctrine? Boil them in oil. Dare to post their ideas that don�t agree with Catholic dogma? Cancel the forum�. And, don�t just cancel the forum and say it was for the sake of harmony and simply time to move on to something new, but make sure you vilify those that dared to disagree with you when you do it, and foster the one sided hate that this thread has revealed. Oh yeah, this was a good move, Rick. Sadly, it didn�t have to be this way.

I was looking forward to the Rendezvous next spring. It would have been good to sit around and commune with many of those I�ve shared thoughts with over the last few years and share a big pot of chilli (with or without beans). Now, I don�t think I would enjoy it, or be especially welcome. Besides, some may forget that there are laws concerning this now and decide to burn one more Baptist on the woodpile. We might be in season come spring.

It's a matter of saying, "I think you're wrong". It's also a matter of being able to rationalize your stand point. That does not have to happen with disrespect attached. As a Baptist I have to have Biblical backing for beliefs.

For example, I saw a program on T. V. in which a Nun was speaking. She said that if someone did not believe in the divinity of Mary or rejected the authority of the Pope they would go to hell. She stated that it was a tenant of the church, yet gave no Biblical foundation. I just caulk it up to unsubstantiated opinion. She certainly has a right to that opinion and I would discuss it with her, and I would tell her I thought she was wrong. I'm sure she would say the same to me. Hopefully we wouldn't attack one another. It's not like we are sunni and shia muslims and will slit each others throats.

One of the first texts that I studied as a theology student, an encyclopedic guide to church doctrines, made the point that much of traditional church doctrine was hammered-out on the anvil of heresy. IOW, they were formulated specifically to refute specific heresies that had arisen.

Further study revealed the basic flaw in that process � formulating basic doctrine from within the dim caverns of personal understanding rather than from careful study of God's revelations of Himself and His will.

Further study also revealed that many "heresies" were in fact scripturally sound � that the church doctrines that were intended to refute them were in fact contrary to God's revelations of Himself and His will.

Whatever anyone's personal opinion or understanding may be, the only ones that count are God's � and they aren't always automatically obvious to personal meditation or committees' decisions.

Ken,

I often wonder if it's so simple that all we talk about is frosting on the cake. That the simple belief of Chist as savior is the only thing important, and that the smaller things, and rituals, are just fluff.

In a worldwide organization with +/- a billion members, there is a wide diversity of theological belief. The new Pope has been trying to reel in some of the crackpots. Agree or disagree with authentic Catholic teaching but that nun was one of them.

Authentic or crackpot?

I have been a member of the Catholic church for about 10 years, I have never once heard in mass or RCIA anything about The Virgin Mary being divine.
I believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, end of story.

Ricky,you rabble-rousing troublemaker,stop it right now !

You've got it, Garry!!! You've GOT it!

Penny

Exactly.

NOT "exactly" . I see it that way, but some see the rituals as being the essence or at least essential.

And that's the way the "bashings" start.

If folks want to add stuff to what's essential, that's their call. But if we all agree on the essential (Jesus Christ crucified and risen), then we all have something in common to celebrate.

When Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door, I tell them that I am already a believer and a member of a church. But I tell them, "God bless you for going door to door for Him when you could be sitting at home watching TV."

I don't have to be the same denomination as someone to love them in Christ, and support them in their work for God.

What we believers on the Campfire need to do is to go feed the homeless together or do some other work for the Lord... that will bind us together pretty quickly, and no one will want to argue theology.

Penny

I ain't and I ain't.

Ms.Penny;re your post :

EXACTLY!

Sanlen the one thing that I always liked about your posts is they always made the reader think.

Steve

Pretty full of yourself huh?

CATC was dominated by a small group of people who took delight in attacking those that didn't agree. No bashing? Just disagreements?



Thats the feces that was slung there - and you and others on your side of the fence kept quiet. Sure IIRC there were 2 (wow 2) posts saying it might be a bit strong, no apology came from it tho. That same individual also posted calling Mary a wh**e. Now I call your mother that ans the place here would explode - he could call the mother of CHRIST that and no one said anything. But there was no bashing right ? Just disagreement over beliefs.

I never told anyone they had to renounce their life and become Catholic - simply asked that they live how they claim to be - Christian and treat me (us) with the same respect that we have afforded them.

As to the sticky item - people insulted Rick by their posting - deeply. He placed the stickies there and didn't get in the conversation that followed - simply put them out there as "this is what we believe". Some could not accept that dunno why. I mean how many times do I need to tell someone who never was RC but "knows a guy" that what they think I believe is wrong? No I am wrong - because I don't know my own mind?

Mac - that wasn't the first time I posted on Medjugorje - I hung a thread about it once - back in 03 or very early 04 and my pm box filled up with 2000 ways I was going to hell.

This is what Rick posted down there:



Nothing there says we are gonna protect Catholics and burn the rest.

RickBin,

I will say that I am going to miss "Christ at the Campfire". I did enjoy sharing my faith with others and learned a great deal in some of the more "heated" discussions.

As an Orthodox Christian and non-Protestant, I felt many of those barbs that the Roman Catholics felt. My faith saw me through them and I would continue to engage in the conversations. Some of the "sparring" also made me research some view points that were different than mine and helped stregthen my own beliefs.

Thank you for creating CATC and allowing it to go on as long as you did, even though it pained you to do so. It was not all in vain.

God bless you,

Dan

That was for those who are wondering what was going on down there.

Dang. I did read a fair amount there--though rarely ever posted. Well, I hope we don't get rid of the HUNTING RIFLES forum because of all the Savage and Browning bashing that goes on there. And I think the OPTICS forum is in serious trouble too...

Would be good for all to remember the 11th commandment...
"Thou shalt not take thyself so god-damned seriously"

Oh, there's more � lots more � that's important enough for God to want us to know it.

� My first curiosity about Christianity was what God expects of His own. There's lots more than just letting Him be good and merciful to us.

� My next curiosity about Christianity was how Christ wanted His disciples (us, not just those in the New Testament) to follow Him. That led to another curiosity that resulted from noticing the obvious disparities and contrasts between the beliefs and practices of (a) the early Christians and (b) the church people of today.

� Then, of course, the inevitable questions became (a) "How did that become this?" and (b) "Was the process of transformation or evolution scripturally legitimate?"

The search for answers to these questions has taken years of diligent research and study, but the answers have been edifying and enriching. (None of any value at all has come from human opinion or judgement.)

Alas, they're also 'way too rich for some palates.

[/quote]
As a Baptist I have to have Biblical backing for beliefs.

[/quote]

What does being baptist have to do with it? Every theology is based off of scripture, except the cults. The baptists are so full of themselves they think that they are the only ones who read the bible.

Andrew, I, for one, had no idea such posts as the one cited existed on here. I grew tired of the endless arguments long ago so never frequented this forum. I must admit to being disheartened to the extreme by such posts. It certainly does nothing to promote Christian ethics.

I only know Jesus and Him crucified and that's my message. I know that if I were the only sinner on earth He still would have gone to the cross for me. How could I not love Him? He also reminded us that 'if we had done it to the least of these, we had done it unto Him.' That's a sobering reflection.

Bless you all.

No. That was cherry picking the worst of the worst and I cannot stand by and let you insinuate those kind of posts were the norm. Neither is it true that there were only a few times people were called out for that kind of posting. I did it every time I saw it happening from the beginning in getting involved with CATC over three years ago. And I noted that several posters significantly toned down their posts regarding other faiths. Even those who had extensive background in those faiths. Not all certainly as there are all types in the the world and some are just set in their ways and believe it their duty to point to the "truth" in any manner for the benefit of others.

And everytime there was an outcry from someone who was offended and said they were leaving, I told them to stay and stick up for what they believed. Hardly any did. Either they didn't really care, could not defend their positions, didn't fully understand those positions, or it wasn't worth it to them or........?? And though they left, if there was more posted that I considered inappropriate I labeled it as such to the poster as often did others.

I am very disappointed in the manner of character assasination you seem to enjoy foisting on fish280 and all those who posted on CATC on the "other side of the fence". The "us and them" mentality is neither productive or a reality except for those who make it so. None were perfect but few participated in the kind of posting you decry and want to paint as typical.

There was much good that was done on CATC. It's a shame you and others refuse to acknowledge any of that. It's a bigger shame for those who cannot recognize any of it.

Anybody who bashs the Pope and Billy Graham in the same post is [ at least ] an equal opportunity basher !

I am a great admirer of Billy Graham and read the post when it was entered . I didn't respond and this is why :

The Reverend Graham didn't change one whit because some keystrokes were made in cyberland . Neither did the Roman Catholic church , for that matter .Why would I want to give Sanlen an excuse for defending his statement about Dr. Graham ?

You can bet he has reasons sufficient to him for his views and can express them pretty eloquently,or at least better than me .A man who disdains the Pope AND Billy Graham marks himself as being pretty far out in his view of christianity .

That doesn't mean I should dis-regard everything else he has to say .Some guys think Rem 700's are better than winnies but also allow that a 30 06 is the best cartridge in existance .I don't discount both views because one of them is wrong !

Maybe I got a thicker skin than some on here , 'cause I sure do like Billy and I didn't get riled up .

Jed; I think you hit the nail on the head .Might be interesting which " side " poked fun at THEMSELVES the most .

Ricky , I'm gonna say something here I NEVER said on CATC ;


AMEN!

You're full of the same BS as usual...just at a different place. All the dogma and accusations about another's beliefs got to be tedious and vitriolic. There was little or no Christian kindness at CATC, just viscous condemnation. Who needs that? Rick sure didn't, and neither did most of us.

Gene - if you want to believe that - fine. But remember that your view is not one from the target of that type of post.

I never had a problem with you and I didn't say fish was part of the issue down there. I am simply stating that those that say Catholic bashing didn't happen or it was just a "difference of beliefs" aren't completely honest. The shutting of CATC has nothing to do with differences of opinion but how those differences were expressed.

There were/are people who participated there that are great people, Christian in every way. I appreciated their insight. When asked AWAY from that forum - the conversation was much more civil (I happen to retain a 100 post pm session with someone who is NOT Catholic - excellent discussion that also happened to discuss the very probable nuking of CATC).

To those that believe the nuking of CATC is simply a continuation of the inquisition - please show me another HUNTING AND SHOOTING board with 15,000+ members that has a place specific to faith like we had here?. I can't find one on AR, Baitshopboyz, Sniper's Hide, AR15.com or anywhere else.

Okay, Okay I recant my "Exactly!"
Don't burn me at the stake, folks!!

Another of my favorite stories � a joke with punch � tells of a new-comer in Heaven who sees a huge area surrounded by a high board fence, with the sounds of loud hymn-singing inside. He asks his guide about it.

"Oh, those are the *******s. They think that they're the only ones Up Here."



A couple of Dad's bishop friends were always debating a certain doctrine regarding personal purity, at times rather heatedly.

"You obviously don't believe," one said to the other, "that I'm going to Heaven."

"Oh, that isn't my concern," the other said. "I'm worried that you'll go right on by."

Yes;friend Ken , they are too rich [ or perhaps require more study than most of us are willing to do] .That's why we need "expert witnesses" to dumb it down for us .I count you as being the best around this 'fire .

You stuck it out at CATC far longer than most would have .You were cyber-attacked on a PERSONAL basis many times.Don't recall anybody intervening.

Guess it depends on who's dog is being chawed !

I don't burn � I hug.

How many "rightous" folks did God require be found in Sodom and Gomorrah in order for Him to spare the cities ?

I know, Ken.
God bless you, sir!

I forget who said it, years ago, that if God didn't straighten-out San Francisco pretty soon, He'd have to resurrect Sodom and Gomorrah and apologize.

Apparently not here either. Had is the appropriate word.

Steve

GREAT post RickyD

Steve

I first heard it from the late Adrian Rogers . Don't know if it was original with him . You can bet he didn't claim it as his own if it wasn't !

Andrew,
I greatly appreciate that acknowledgement: not of or for myself by any means, but for the good men and women who contributed to that forum honestly and in love.

Huntamerica does not have the membership of this site but it does have a forum to express faith. You might be interested to know it has a few Mormon posters who have put the shoe on the other foot and are quite adament about their faith even to the degree of it being the only valid one, it seems from the little review on my part to date. They do a good job of backing that faith up and do not shirk from critism of theirs.

There are two examples I can think of. One being communion, the other baptism. I think most churches practice communion of some form. Baptism has always been a sticking point. Catholics christen a baby into the church. Baptists, and others, baptize when the child supposedly makes a choice after reaching the age of accountability. It is a profession of faith. We don't believe a child is responsible for original sin until they reach the age of understanding. From what I understand, in the catholic faith that profession is the first communion. Just like in the Jewish faith it's the Bar Mitzvah. I've heard it said that if you're not baptized by total emersion then you cannot enter the kingdom. I don't know, and even though I believe that I do not have the authority of the Lord so I cannot say with certainty.

Where did Christ at the campfire go?

Maybe he went hunting...like the rest of do.

Ten.

Absolutely! He always comes with me.

Just one of the many things I've heard too that I disagree with though that is exactly how I was baptised.

Too many people give too little credit to the power of God's Grace or understand the fullness of His Word. They might want to hope He doesn't chose to return the favor.



Is that rousing rabble, Gene?

I seldom posted at CATC. I agree there was enough toxic stuff there that it often wasn�t worth the effort to try to filter out the good/uplifting stuff. I did check in after the flap about the Pope writing that the Catholic Church was the only genuine Church due to IIRC a direct linage to Christ�s disciples <or something along those lines> My point is, he knew his words caused great anger and hurt among the Protestant world.
When the other flap occurred over the Pope saying something along the lines of islam has done some mean things back in the 1400s followed by muslims go into a worldwide seething fit, and kill an elderly nun or two the Pope makes a trip to Turkey and says something about he was sorry if his meaning was misunderstood. I will give him credit for not saying islam is peace�. But he threw them some sort of face saving bone.
I made a few very careful posts looking for any insight into the catholic posters views on what the Pope had said and then just backed off. �
Perhaps I missed an explanation of how the Pope was not being disrespectful to those of the Protestant faith�.

Yep! Teal is a straight-up guy .I earned the tag as "trouble-maker" from my exchanges with Blaine,Sanlen, etal,re the " bibical inerrancy" and "revelation apart from scripture" issues .The "tag" sorta spilled over into the "catholic bashing arena" ,though I didn't participate .

Andrew is one of the few to acknowledge that and I appreciate it.

Most of us protestants don't identify with our particular chosen denomination to the extent the Roman Catholic brethren identify with the CHURCH , so Teal is correct when he [ obliqley ] makes the point that I can't gauge the depth of the hurt caused by the remarks posted above .

My admiration for Billy Graham probably does not approach the level of veneration he feels for his church so I have to take him at his word . I have no basis for comparison .Maybe my skin is not thicker than his .

Of course , as I've said before on the late CATC , I don't recall if it was wife # 4 or #5 took the last one of my feelings that could be hurt !

Sanlen:



Man, is this website ever censored. It's like you can't get a word in edgewise with the Grand Inquisitor Webmaster pushing all his buttons! That whole danged Inquisition thing and all. It's a wonder you've NEVER had a post pulled!

It's a good thing your posts never come across as personal attacks, or anti-Catholic though. Whew! Otherwise who knows what that trigger-happy webmaster would do.

Rick, I'm going to say this straight-out. I like you, I certainly respect you, and I am thankful that you provide us with this website and the opportunity to participate here in these discussions.

But in my opinion you have made a very big mistake by eliminating 'Christ At The Campfire', and I certainly DO NOT agree with those who have foolishly, and in ignorance, supported this act. Your decision does not serve Jesus Christ at all but, but rather the devil himself and every demon spirit that has been trying to tear down that forum, and you have inadvertently become an accomplice to that end, and likely without realizing it, but you have nevertheless, and even in partnership and with the hearty approval of some who are mockers and who are walking in spiritual darkness. Think about the implications of this!

What was the purpose of 'Christ At The Campfire'? Was it to bring people to Christ and illuminate the word of God, or to defend a particular denomination? Are you so caught up in denominationalism that you have forgotten your first love - Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour? When I read your reasons for taking off 'Christ at the Campfire', I realized that you did this out of FEAR, as you feel the Catholic church is being attacked. But the spirit of fear comes from the devil himself and NOT God! God does NOT give us a spirit of fear, not ever! God is in control, always. If you believe that what the catholic church preaches is the truth and nothing but the truth, then why not leave the 'Christ At The Campfire' forum open, knowing that God's word ALWAYS brings us to the truth, and like a two-edged sword, His word will pierce through all UNtruths! HE is in control, not man, and man-made theology. HIS light and HIS very words are LIVING spiritual truths that He Himself reveals to us when we are SEEKING the truth. You can't alter or change the truth of God's word! God does not need your forum to reveal truth, either, although He will USE it, IF you are compliant to His will. Jesus commands us to be a light in this world, loving our neighbors as ourselves, and sharing the word of God to those who have not yet heard it, and to those that do not see. Should this not have been the purpose of 'Christ At The Campfire', and as such, should not that forum still be in active use? How can you, as a believer and the owner of this website, offer God anything less?

READ THE BOOK OF JOHN! Jesus addressed that very issue of religious rules that the Pharisses lived by (legalism!) and how they were more loyal to their traditonal rules (many that were man-made) rather than the true word of God and bringing those to Christ. It appears that such has happened here as well, unfortunately! Remember, Jesus loved the Pharisees as well, even though they persecuted Him!

Your decision also completely fails to obediently fulfill what Jesus Himself commanded us to do, and as a true believer, as I must assume you are, this is not only is an act of disobedience, if not outright rebellion, and it serves the darkness rather than the light:

Matthew 5:14-16, and these are the words of Jesus Himself:

"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannnot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."

It also fails to obediently carry out that great commission which we, as believers, are instructed by Jesus Himself to fulfill. As are the verses that I've previously sited, these are not "suggestions", they are commands:

Matthew 28:18-20

'And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Obviously, your decision to eliminate 'Christ At The Campfire' surely does not serve this commandment, either...........

Rick, as has been pointed out by others, this is indeed "your house", and as such, and out of respect for you and other catholic members that we have here, I will by no means carry on about the numerous disagreements that I have with the Catholic church.

But I will say this: You have to decide where your true loyalties lie. Are you first and foremost loyal to Jesus Christ, to His commandments, and to His holy Word, as written in scripture, or are you first loyal to the church of Rome?

Jesus said as much in Luke 16:13, "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."

Rick, I urge you to restore 'Christ At The Campfire', and let all testimony furnished there be compared to scripture, and let the validity of all that is stated there either stand as the truth or be demonstrated as apostasy, and also by the same means: The holy, written Word of God Himself, as stated according to the purity and completeness of the Holy Bible, and by no other measure...........

www.pro-gospel.org

Respectfully submitted,

AD

Mr Rick, bless your heart. You have done suceeded in busting up one playhouse and the fragments have broke out in three or four places. Reminds me of a topped out woods fire. Jumping from tree to tree.

BCR

Boggy,Go back a day or so . You heard it "here" first !

gene old bud, I tried my best but the scent of hellfire and brimstone overcome me. :>)

I didn't know the kind of stuff that went on at CATC, but I see it was the kind of bickering that decided me to give up on churches altogether.
Now any time I feel the need, I go out to the hills, sit under a tree and have a long talk with the guy who made all this.
He's pretty easy to get along with, don't preach much, and listens well.

Uh Rick
I was down there all the time deleting posts and not telling you. I was just trying to prevent you from seeing the hateful, hurtful things being posted. Honest I only took out the bad ones! I am sure I got them all...


Sheesh! Some people are a bit narrow-minded...
art

It appears to me that whoever made these quotes just wasn't focused properly. Send them down to the optics forum and they will get them straightened out.

Apparently some Campfire menbers are exempt from the admonition "Judge not"
How did you obtain such status?

gene - thanks for the kind words.

To a Catholic who is a devout or very active - it's very difficult to separate our Catholicism from who and what we are. An attack on our Church is an an attack on us personally for many people. I think that is where a lot of this comes from also.

To be honest - I was a lapsed Catholic. I hadn't practiced my faith in a long time, but reading the bashing there stirred something in me and got me back. To me the Catholic Church is family in a very real way. Others can attest but when I came back to the church the VERY first thing Fr. John said to me was "Welcome Home". I know those same words have been spoken to others who joined the church 1000's of miles away - it's an attitude or way of living.

I liken it to more of someone slandering your family over the phone - you stand up for it then sooner or later you just hang up the phone - not out of fear of what someone is saying but tiredness. I didn't have to pick up the phone to begin with and I can put it down at any time. Thats what Rick did IMO - he put the phone down for a while.

AFAIK - Rick never said CATC is gone forever. It may be back with the flip of a switch. That said - I had noticed that there was usually 12-30 people in there all the time but few posters. The number of people chiming in here on the subject leads me to believe that many were interested. Why then weren't there more posters? Means 1 of 2 things.

1. They didn't feel comfortable posting due to the perceived tone there.
2. They had nothing to say - well that is hard to believe. I think we all could add 20k+ posts to our totals for things we wanted to say but kept our mouths shut.

The entire deal goes something like this : " Judge not but judge rightous judgement ".I take that to mean-maybe among other meanings- that God has passed judgement on ideas and activities and we are to apply THAT judgement .

Looks to me like that what the poster did .

Rick is obligated under this format to provide space for a religious forum? Exactly where is your religious forum? Clearly, if Rick is obligated to support one, you are too. Particularly in light of the fact you believe it to be his obligation.
art

Respectfully submitted...

What about "Judge not, lest ye be judged." ? ...

then again, there's also Judge Wapner and Judge Judy ... (grin)

That's not the scripture I grew up with, maybe it's like that in more recent revisions.

Always liked the lineup of Joshua, Judges, Ruth... and Lyle's CD, too...

That was Cheaha. And the Cheaha Pets all agreed.

Steve

AD,
Your post is an excellent example of why CATC should have been eliminated. You are telling Ric not only what he must believe, but how he must act, all in the name of Jesus. What arrogance! How incredibly divisive! How un-charitable! And most especially, how unlike Jesus!

I am also regretfully aware that my rant concerning you has a lot in common with your post.

Steve

AllenDay what you wrote LITERALLY brought tears to my eyes because what your saying here is so true and I WHOLEHEARTEDLY respect Mr Bin as well that really needed to be said I've always respect what you say Allen because whether you remember or not you sent me a pm when I was a newbie here really chiming in to help me on who to go with as per a custom built rifle and to see what you wrote here REALLY lets me know what type of person you are I appreciate this post it really made me fill well to know what type of folk we have here at 24 hour.
Also Respectfully Submitted.
MH,

Oh [bleep].....are we going to be preached at now !
I get enough of that when my half-baked religious mother turns up.
LISTEN UP, religion is personal...keep it that way.

I may surprise some people but I, too, support Rick's action. I have thought about this for a while and the plug needed pulled. Possibly to get peoples attention and possibly to end that portion of the Campfire forever. Note I did not say for "good" nor do I hope "forever" is the outcome.

I understand what you are saying Allen and agree with the context but moreso trust that Rick was also being led by the Lord in his decision and his heart was right in the decision. In that, I also have to trust that Rick will continue to seek the Lord, not being unmindful of the truths you have mentioned. Indeed, he was the one who initiated CATC for exactly the purposes and uses you enumerate. Let us not forget that, or tend to only our own undertanding and view from the outside or in reaction to his necessary action.

Though not a foregone conclusion, I have a hope that Rick will institute another CATC with safegaurds to prevent the heinous and uninspired posts that sometimes plagued the former forum. And perhaps not......... but if we can come together and reason together we may see that this too shall pass and out of the ashes of that which had become tainted and irrepairable, more good and true fellowship may emerge. This is my hope and my prayer.

Rick,
I want to thank you sincerely for the CATC forum and aplogize for any hurt I caused you or anyone else by either my posts or my silence. Hurt was never intentional, though pride and arrogance can always creep in and cause the same nonetheless. I also want to apologize for the position you were put in between the Rock and the hard place with those who wanted it eliminated. You are an outstanding individual to be able to balance your purpose for the forum, the good and bad it evoked, and the voices of many you trust.

I hope there is something else in store for the 24 Hour Campfire that will allow us to share our faith, our joys and dispairs, and pray and praise the Lord of Glory corporately as Brothers and Sisters in Christ. I must say I have long believed that oft maligned and sometimes deservedly so forum, brought success to this site in ways we cannot see or comprehend fully. The Word of the Lord does not return void and that Word went out often from CATC, as I hope it will again.

Peace to all!

RickyD

Since the discussion is on this forum instead of CATC,many more are participating .
I'm gonna offer the ONE remedy that[ you know ] I've offered over and over :

This is NOT one big campfire . Each forum is one fire in a large campground . We are free to roam from fire to fire or stay at one .

CATC was one of the fires . Each thread represented a group of folks talking about something of a spiritual nature . We were free to sidle up to the group and listen to what was being said .

We could hang around and join in the discussion or move on around to the next group or maybe just wander off out of the firelight and be alone awhile .

The real problem - as I saw it was that too many folks lacked experience at REAL CAMPFIRES and didn't know how to behave , or [ more likely ] never saw it as a campfire at all .

As an example,dealing with the present case,I can't imagine ANYONE at a real campground running down the religion of the fella who kept the fires going !I also can't imagine anyone sidling up to a bunch of Morman hunters and telling them they are going to hell .

Now these are just the things I've said over and over at CATC . Just the ideas of one un-recovered Baptist !

But it WOULD have worked . I even offered it as a pledge a long time ago . Don't recall getting any takers .

Care to name the " Cheaha Pets" ?

I didn't think so .

I can't imagine it either! I'm darn near certain they wouldn't share any of their beer after that. You'd have to roam around and find a bunch of Baptist hunters then.

Below is what I was refering to. I like to believe there are different Christian bodies that serve the Lord. Over the years I have had only one Catholic friend that was devoted in a deep way. Perhaps there is a Cathloic poster here who would like to explain how the Pope was not "Protestant bashing" when he wrote this:
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,288841,00.html

"The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said it was issuing the new document on ecumenism because some contemporary theological interpretations of Vatican II's ecumenical intent had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.

The new document -- formulated as five questions and answers -- restates key sections of a 2000 text the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which riled Protestant, Lutheran and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one Church," said the document released as the pope vacations at a villa in Lorenzago di Cadore, in Italy's Dolomite mountains.

The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession -- the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles -- and therefore their priestly ordinations are not valid, it said."

re Baptists and beer :

An interviewer asked Willie Nelson how unsettling it was for him as a youngster to pick at a Texas beer joint on Sat. nite and at the Abbot Baptist church the next morning . He replied ; " Same audience,different songs !"

I've studied the origins and history of the Roman Catholic Church � even read Father Chiniquy's hard-to-find autobiographical Fifty Years in the Church of Rome � and its spin-offs. I find it significantly at odds with my understanding of God's great eternal plan for us.

But God, for whatever His reasons may be, lets it continue to operate. So who am I to try to discredit it or to destroy it? I see chinks in its walls, but I'm content to let God work on 'em as He sees fit. One theme of my book In Step with the Master is to let God guide His own Hand in the great spiritual storm that He is even now stirring, which no "wood, hay, or stubble" will survive.

A Baptist pastor whom I used to know said of himself that he was prone to graft branches onto God's trees whenever he thought that their crowns were too thin.

"The trouble is," he said, "they never bear any fruit."

Wouldn't it be kind of weird if the head of the Catholic Church DIDN'T think it's teaching is the correct route to salvation?

Good point Steve - kind of like when I was in the Navy - If I didn't think that it was the best branch of service - why was I there? If I didn't think Peterbilt makes the best class 8 trucks on the road - how can I stand there and tell a customer that his 20k investment in an overhaul was the best thing for him?

If any poster there (CATC) didn't think their way was the best - they need to examine how they came to their way. The difference is I will not assume I know the mind of God and would tell someone that they are going to hell, that God is mad at them etc. That is an arrogance I will not partake in.


My hope for CATC was more for a place of "This is how Christ is touching my life - how is He touching yours?" and not so much - I read chapter x and verse y and believe that it means the RCC is the whore of babylon and that you are all needing to convert.

Which is more uplifting? I say it's sharing much like when we post pics of a successful hunt vice ragging on how someone did the hunt.

It is gone. Let's move on now because it's not coming back ----- or is it?

I bloody well hope it does come back, then this lot can go bitch at each other somewhere else so that we may go back to bitching about everything else here.

Well then Steve do you see the irony of catholics getting all worked up when some MEMBERS of other Churchs say "bashing" things about them while the world wide LEADER of the Catholic Church is saying everybody that isn't catholic is going to Hell? I sure do.

Throwing pearls into a pig sty is poor judgement. Is it also poor judgement to stop throwing pearls into that pig sty once you've gotten into the habit and others have taken-up the habit too? Is it also poor judgement to get out of the pork business and then to get rid of the pig sty? Or does established precedent oblige you to continue doing what you shouldn't've started doing in the first place?

It's interesting that no one noticed it was gone until Steelhead commented on it. Since the news surfaced there's been an uproar and everyone has an opinion on what Rick should have done.

If it was that important, why didn't anyone notice it had ceased to exist ???????????????????

Gene,

You can dislike what I say, even be mad at my opinuion if you want,

BUT DON"T ACCUSE ME OF SAYING THINGS I DIDN"T.

None of those statements were mine. My guess right now (though I'd have to look to see) is they were all said by the same person.

Anyone with any sense can read my posts to CATCF( if that is still posible)and find that I tried to bash no one but tried to find unity in diversity( the concept of a university as a place of learning)with fellow believers.


Perhaps Rick might be surprised( perhaps not) that as a Baptist,the people who offended me the most were the same fundamentalists that offended him. I really found the notion of meeting and learning from and with other believers worthwhile.

Even spent a little time reseaching Catholic doctrine and papal history as well such Catholic concepts as Eucharist,Seven Sacraments,Papal Infalibility,The Immaculate Conception,Perpetual Virginity,Purgatory,and others.

I don't find all of them in scripture but I understand the Catholic reasons for all of them a little better now. I even went so far as to ask a lay leader of the local Catholic parish if a noncatholic could recieve communion as I wanted to experience a Catholic Mass fully for myself.

If Rick were here,I'd invite him to my church for a visit for sure. As much as I understand his reasons for ending the forum,I think there are better reasons for allowing it to continue perhaps in an amended form.

After all,if we love the Lord, He will expect us to get along with each other forever,looks like for His sake we could find a way to do it now.

Britt

I am curious if Rick can do what a Canadian site has done with certain parts of their forums, that you have to be granted access to it.
So unless you have permission it is locked.
Would this not work for those that want to be in it?

He should have done whatever he wants done. It's his forum.

no-one noticed because all the weirdo's where somewhere else, now they are here spreading their touchy-feely bullsh!t.

So, is it the profession of faith that is important? I would think so. I think of the soldier on the battle field who accepts Christ in his heart and is killed before he can be physically Baptized. No way I would believe he is lost. If you look at John 3:16 I'd say that sums the requirement up. Maybe all the other stuff is required to be acknowledged as a part of Christ's Church by fellow followers, but really isn't necessary for recognition by Christ, or to receive the gift of his atonements. Debatable points all.

But back to Rick's decision. If they debate became argument, that's ok. But if it degraded to the very un-Christian tossing of insults, then it was rightfully shut down due to being un-productive. The statement that it was due to catholic bashing is what's got me. To throw up a protective barrier for one religion and not all is in my view wrong. If it became an issue of general bashing then we have a different matter. The question is, would it have been shut down for Baptist bashing? If so, then ok. But if not then it's a bias position. You know, when I was my father would use the "My House" or "My Roof" thing. That would kill any argument by shear exercize of authority, but never did it automatically make him right.

Sanlen - he didn't say you said that.

Ken,

Those are my exact feelings as well. I've even said very similar things. Welcome to the ranks of Catholic bashers.

That might bother me if I thought I was headed there. Thing is, I don't. But others might.

Another thing is there will be lots in hell who never thought they would be. And bad as that is, they will be really ticked off not to be able to find a lot of those they were convinced had a ticket already.

oldie often worth resurrecting:

"If you'll stop telling lies about me, I'll stop telling the truth about you."

Looks like he did to me.

Here is an example of what they require for the equipment exchange part of the forum.
From the site I mentioned.

First, Read the Following Rules and Guidelines

No for sale (FS)/or want to buy (WTB) ads of illegal or questionable items. Questionable items include, but are not limited to:


Magazine Kits.
"80%" or partially completed receivers or receiver stampings.


No selling of stolen government property. This includes any DND equipment item, which has not been released to the general public for sale. CGN members might be asked to provide proof of purchase from mods, if the origin of the item is deemed questionable. Sale of stolen goods will result in a permanent ban from CGN without warning.

No for sale (FS)/or want to buy (WTB)ads of fully assembled, non-commercially produced reload ammunition. This means no "home reloads". This does not apply to components.

No selling of tobacco and alcohol

No for sale (FS)/or want to buy (WTB) ads of airsoft guns. Please conduct your airsoft guns related trading on the Airsoft Canada. This policy is to discourage the selling and buying airsoft item to minors. All airsoft guns related trading post will be removed without warning.

All items listed for sale must include a price. This is not an auction/bidding site. No links to off-site auctions are permitted. "Make an offer" posts with no listed base price are not acceptable, and may be deleted without notice.

Want-to-Trade (WTT) posts with no price are acceptable, provided the buyer/seller lists the specific items being sought for trade.

If you have multiple items for listed for sale/wanted, please put them in one post. Members are allowed a maximum of two (2) active threads per Exchange forum. Ads in excess of two may be deleted without warning.

Do not post the same ad in more than one forum. Multi-forum ads may be deleted without warning.

Members may "bump" or bring their ad "back-to-the-top" (BTT) every seven (7) days only. Ads BTT'd sooner than that may be deleted without warning.

If you are adding or editing info in your ad, please edit the original. Do not BTT it with a new post. Bumping an ad with new/edited info may result in it being deleted without warning.

If your item has been sold/found or a deal is pending, please edit your ad to reflect this. If you no longer require the ad or the deal has been completed, please put "DELETE" in the thread title. This makes forum clean-up much easier for the volunteer moderators.


Now, do the following

Go to your UserCP,
Click on Group Membership,
Select Join Group for Equipment Exchange Users Group and,
Click Send.
By doing so, you are agreed to have a clear understanding to the above rules and condition; Please Note: Failure to comply with these rules may result in temporary or permanent suspension of a member's Equipment Exchange privleges. Thank you for your co-operation.

I stand corrected - I had not seen or did not remember that other part.

How did you know they didn't notice and just didn't hang a post about it? I noticed before Steely hung his but I'm kinda shy.

Sanlen - would you say that what I posted by that particular poster - the comments that led Rick to drawing the line in teh sand are Catholic bashing or do you consider them "Spreading the Truth!"?

This is .....uh, well different
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/web...Christians_Should_Pray_to_Allah#comments

I've never seen this many fleas arguing over who owns the dog.

Maybe God just got tired of being everyone's excuse to argue with each other and moved upon Rick to close shop. You know this constant harping and moaning has GOT to get old.

Do Jews go to heaven?

Do Catholics go to hell?

Is a preacher a real preacher if he can't trace his lineage back to some mythical 1st century apostle?

Is God a buddhist?

This place doesn't need a Christ at the Campfire forum, it needs a philosophy professor and a therapist. I don't know about you guys but I have never been around a campfire where this stuff was talked about. Although I will admit that God does play favorites at the poker table, I see no evidence aside from that to prove he likes any of you better than the others.

Lighten up! My goodness. Some of you guys act like you enjoy being miserable. Autumn is just around the corner.

Will

A quick count revealed about 300 odd posts about it in 36 hours. Ya'll haven't been that shy

Penguin - I have had these discussions around a real campfire. Then again we all agreed the 30-06 was finer than frog hair!

I also realize my cursor can and does move over stuff I do not want to read - others can do the same.

Nope. Like I said, there were some who went well over any line, and usually many of us either called them on it, or asked them to at the least substantiate what they said. Those kind of statements serve no real purpose. But if someone claims one thing (such as the Catholic Church being the only church ) and some one else states that it wasn't, is that Catholic Bashing, or just a difference of opinion?

Penguin, your avatar looks to be the fellow from Firefly, do you watch a bit of science fiction ?

Now there's one worth remembering.

You have snatched a stone of Wisdom from the hand of the Master young Grasshopper.

Will

Darn! The wife musta been posting on my account again!

That comment is completely beyond my ability to comprehend.

Yes, that was my favorite TV show. Have the entire DVD set and Serenity as well. Old Jayne Cobb was one for the ages. In that picture he actually has more than a passing resemblance to me so I put it up.

Will

Garry,
We would be on the same side of the debate in the debatable points you mention. There might be a few we wouldn't be on the same side of. That wouldn't bother me and I doubt it would bother you. At the end of the day we would still be Brothers in Christ, I believe.

I don't think Rick shut it down just for Catholic bashing though that was likely the final ironic straw. Some folks down there were genuine equal opportunity bashers. Not many but a few. They routinely targeted any not exactly like themselves of which there were fortunately none. A another or two were great pot stirrers. They would hang a post and watch the fur fly never entering back into the fray. The rest of us could be equal opportunity debaters/arguers/seekers of the truth..........your call. But we would also be quick to lift a brother up and pray for those we didn't know. I think that's significant. Others MMV.

It's a simple answer.

We had a whole thread on it.

I posted the Pope's ACTUAL STATEMENT, and pointed out how MSNBC had not only mischaracterized what the Pope said, but actually stated the OPPOSITE re Protestant churches and salvation.

I have Serenity as well and it is one of the better shows, where did you pick up the entire Television set?
James.

Uhh, excuse me, but that is not what he said. Try again. Tell you what, here's what he said:

"�It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church�[12].

That is VERBATIM from his statement.

Get your facts straight.

First I am not a Catholicism basher but why not after all Pope's has been doing it for dare I say centuries. The cover-ups all for the sake of filling the coffers of the Vatican is just plain reprehensible. Shamefully the molestations of boys has been condoned by the hierarchy of the Catholic Church for hundreds of years. The proof of this abhorrent behavior -- the court system is finally getting this out in the open and the Catholic Church itself is admitting it when forced to do so. Who is the CEO of this money making machine --- the Pope and the buck stops there!

If this happened in any other industry or in Government it would be on the front page everyday and people would be going to jail. Yes in some isolated instances, priests have been incarcerated however, in many of the cases �Management� was aware and even transferred these pedophiles around the country to depredate again. This was done to avoid any potential embarrassment and subsequent financial impact to the coffers. Were they ever prosecuted --- never happen to unpopular to do so and as a result --- The Hypocrisy Lives On.


Sorry to offend some but it is the truth.

Sorry Rick but I gotta laugh. Deja vu?(grin)

James,

Picked it up at the local mall. I am not sure if it was at Circuit City or the music store. One of the other. It was on the bestseller list at amazon.com for months. I'm sure they would have it. The unaired episodes alone are worth the price.

Will

We have had the same rockspiders over here, it is about time the church's were held responsible for allowing these creatures sanctuary.

Boss Hoss:

Have you lost your mind?

Are you honestly trying to start a **** throwing argument? You could have stated everything in your post without insulting one single person.... instead you chose to make your opinions known in a way that was calculated to cause hard feelings.

No wonder Rick shut that place down.

Will

Are you sure that's not a quote of John Paul II?

Okay Will, I am hooked.........you just know it will take me six months to find, I shall also check Ebay.
I was not even aware that the Television episodes were available.
James.

Allen:

I very much appreciate your post. I have read it once, and will read it carefully again and contemplate.

Please note: Many of the sentiments behind the origination of the CATC were what inspired me to create it years ago. It didn't just appear from out of the ether.

Also, some of you must understand the behind-the-scenes angst and inner turmoil much of the content of CATC caused me ... again, for years.

I did not come to this decision lightly.

1] Anyone who has interpreted my actions as a personal or denominational slight is adding their own slant to the issue. The fact remains that I nuked CATC because I was tired of the anti-Catholicism. End of story.

If some of you feel that that is an arbitrary or capricious indulgement on my part, then I truly apologize.

Again: I will not sponsor anti-Catholic bigotry on a forum on which I have the power to avoid it. I'm not talking one post, or one thread. I'm talking years of pervasive anti-Catholicism. I challenge anybody here to have refrained from interceding for almost three years were their own denomination pervasively maligned.

2] This is a hunting and shooting forum, and Jesus has blessed it. If some of you knew the background and the road that led me to create 24hourcampfire in 1999 and 2000, you'd undoubtedly agree. That is the primary reason I created CATC ... to allow Christians of ALL denominations to fellowship.

Unfortunately, that is not what panned out. As the [bleep] now swirling demonstrate, and as I finally accepted, an interdenominational open forum is a flame war waiting to happen.

You have all seen what types of flames accompany caliber discussions and optics discussions, etc. As irrational as things get there, when somebody's religious beliefs are involved, things are ratcheted up to new levels.

We have three choices here:

a] Open forum. Doesn't work.

b] Moderated forum. Yeah right. See Sanlen's, (the guy who has NEVER had a post pulled, changed, or otherwise affected) gratuitous gripe about censorship, complete with borderline attacks on my character. Suuuuuure this one is viable.

c] No forum. Seems to win by elimination.

The truth is, CATC was a wonderful, inspired concept in theory.

In practice, it simply did not work.

rb

Are YOU?

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...oc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

"The Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, ratified and confirmed these Responses, adopted in the Plenary Session of the Congregation, and ordered their publication.

Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, June 29, 2007, the Solemnity of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul."



Yes, I am.

Will, it is not only the catholic church, most of them have at one time or other harboured these creatures,
James.

Truth hurts don't it!!!!!!!!!!


I went to Catholic school 2nd ---- 10th grade Our Lady of Victory and Nolan High School in Ft Worth and this happened to someone I knew! Found out about it 30 years later and NOTHING was ever said about it back then.

Go pee on someone elses leg. The truth is the truth and if you think that the Pope was not aware of these things then you are ignorant.

I am only taking issue with the "Management" not the "Workers" so to speak!!

I agree James. Even on so egregious an issue there are plenty of guilty parties. But his post was intentionally worded to not only implicate the entire structure of the church but its membership as well.

Even though he knows that you would be hard pressed to find any Catholic defenders of this activity. It was a cheapshot I think.

Will

It's time for dinner. Now, let's go eat.

This place had a religion forum? Really? Huh. Imagine that.

Never went there. Don't care if it's gone. I come here to talk shooting and reloading, and that's all. I belong to other boards. One of my other four shooting boards does have a religion forum - one with few posts, but I couldn't tell you if they were friendly because I wouldn't go there, either. One of my other talk boards is dedicated to Vietnam vets, another to geocaching; neither one feels any need to have religion sections.

If a religion talk board turns your crank (or lights your martyrdom fire), by all means start one.

I suspect that he did not mean to cause anguish, he certainly went to great pains to point out that he was not trying to offend.
James.

Jezz man are you that hard headed-------use common sense here! It happened to a person I went to school with and never even knew what was going on. If this had been a janitor at school then Front Page News. It was completely glossed over and nobody was ever brought to justice.

I did not post at the CATC --- this is one reason. To this day I cannot rationalize it out in my mind!!

Y'all, ah jus bet ah c'n make it deader.

Ps, There is no way in hell my spell checker would even touch that.

Hey RickyD, never did tell you, but I've appreciated your posts in CATC.

I agree with Boss Hoss-
The fact that the church turned a blind eye to what was happening for so many years is deplorable.
I think all of that is in the process of changing now, but the pedophiles and perverts should have been excluded years ago.
I still attend the Catholic church, but I certainly struggle with all that has happened-It still bothers me that it happened at all.
I think the thing to remember is that churches are made up of sinners-that is people who are weak and prone to make many mistakes.
I don't ever see that changing.

Excluded.....I would have thought a slow knife over a number of days would have been more apt.

Boss:

If I didn't think you were intelligent enough to know better, I would put aside your comments as the product of an obtuse mind that could not grasp semi-obvious distinctions.

But since I know better, it only stands to reason that your comments are intended to throw gasoline on the fire.

Pedophilia? Abhorrent, repulsive, and I join everyone in hoping that the bastards fry.

Nobody is going to defend that.

But that is not "Catholicism."

And you know it.

Me too .... two others whos posts I have especially enjoyed include Micky Coleman's and Penny's....although the later two used the general forum more...

Ah fer cryin out loud, quit bashing catholics, I am one, and a proud one, fer crap sake, this isn't My Religion is better than your religion, It is the Bullschitt like this that kept me away for CATC. You all especially the better than thou group are acting like effin' children. And if you can't get that thru your thick skulls, your not acting very christian like at all. Les

Rick, you are quite right, it is not Catholicism, it is not even anything approaching human, and I am not confining my criticism to the Catholic church, I am including every denomination that have allowed this abominable practise to flourish.
Unfortunately keeping quite about it is what has allowed the problem to become as rife as it is.
James.

Nor should it. I need a place to go to church.

Steve

Les, so am I, I simply do not choose to wear it on my sleeve(and I do not believe the Bullsh!t).

An open, any-topic forum like "Hunter's Campfire" allows free discussion of topics that relate somehow to Christianity. Unfortunately, heated, harsh, and bitter disputes are far too common here, but they're not the norm. Christian topics aren't common here because the title of the forum doesn't suggest or invite 'em.

A forum that's dedicated to discussion of Christ and Christianity (e g "Christ at the Campfire") is a de facto invitation for bashers and trolls to come in and to be nasty.

Carol Anne's death just before Christmas (12-15-1989) delayed my Christnmas form letter to family and friends, but I got it out not too late. I titled it "Christmas in Heaven" since that was (as I explained briefly) where she was on that 25 December. The rest � most � of the letter was about other matters of interest to family and friends. It was obviously a printed (not hand-written) form letter.

By return mail, I got a very harsh letter from a friend whose spiritual leanings and status I knew nothing of and had never thought of. He started by saying that he didn't think much of that God, Christ, and Heaven *&^%$#@!, and the rest of his letter (the only one that I ever got from him) covered no other subject.

The title and lead paragraph of that long letter was all the "invitation" or opportunity that was required to unleash a flood of vitriol. How much more so a forum titled "Christ at the Campfire" filled with rash and hateful posts?

It was, IMHO, a bad idea in the first place and should've been dropped months ago.

Agreed.

Fry 'em.

rb

You told me so in May 2005, Ken! I say that not to correct you, but to point out how long I've been dealing with the crapola behind the scenes.

rb

Just rename the forum, "We Protestants are going to Heaven, Everyone else is going to Hell."

I poked my head down there every so often to see a bunch of self rightous ego maniacs condemning me to Hell as a "Mormon Cultist". Every time I said to myself, "self I wonder how long until they start bashing Catholics or Pentacostals or Luths or whoever else."

Great way to testify of Christ, alienate everyone, insult and condemn them all to rot in eternal hellfire-damnation-sin then maybe they'll listen to you.

Did someone say there something about a bear forum?

Well said, Shipster.

and everyone just continued their silliness at the campfire........

Oh, heck, Rick! I'm long accustomed to people ignoring my counsel!

You were absolutely right.

So why the new thread?

Seriously, we have three going on already.

Maybe there is something to that demon stuff?

Like stomping an Ant mound. They go off in all directions looking for something to attack

I think that was my point Rick.............

Rick,

BRAVO!!!!

Steve

Rogue,

Very well stated. And it's all the truth!!!

Steve

And annoying little buggers, aren't they.

RICK, give them some dark, dank little corner so that they may go back to being touchy-feely or whatever they call it...where those wounded individuals can fester in peace.

I am a new member. CATC was one of the reasons I registered to use this site. I really hate to see it go, I thought that was one of the things that made this a unique website.

People are always going to have religious and political differences. No one is ever going to think the same about any subject. That is why there are so many different denominations of religion. I hate it that people are bashing your Catholic faith, but you know they crucified Christ for what He believed.

Religion doesnt get us to heaven anyway. Religion is mans attempt to reach to God, Christianity is Gods reach to man. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me.

If we were all more aware of what the Bible says there would be a lot less differences.

I will probablly get hammered for this because I am the new guy and this is a sensitive subject. Just my two cents.

I didnt think Christians were supposed to judge others..........................................

I'm reminded of the passage in scripture referring to pearls before swine, and how one should not toss them out lest they be trampled underfoot.

RIP to that forum. I kept wondering when Hindus, Muslims, Jewish, Buddist, and other beliefs would demand equal time with CATC. Rick, I support the decision and go on record as such.

Wayne

Good post Buck.

Steve

Rick, you may have to reinstate CATC � with the caveat "enter at your own risk." And hope that sober folk will have sense enough to stay out.

It's not as easy as it looks.



Gonna need a pretty big remuda there Rick. I'm outta here. Beer and hot wings time.

Will

Please do.
And I do.

Sometimes you gotta shoot the leaders to turn the herd.

Can this game be played online in that forum
http://www.radicalcongruency.com/20...ames-possibly-the-single-worst-idea-ever


Left Behind: Eternal Forces comes out some time this year, and there aren�t a lot of details, but here�s the basic premise as I was able to infer from the website:

The rapture has happened, so all the Christians are gone
A bunch of people realize the error of their ways, and immediately become Christians after the rapture
For some reason, it becomes necessary to blast the unrepentant to bits and hasten the destruction of the world
Guns. Lots of guns.
Newsweek corroborates:

The game revolves around New Yorkers who are ?left behind? after the rapture. Players scour the streets for converts, training them into a work force to feed, shelter and join a paramilitary resistance against the growing forces of the Antichrist.

I apologize Sanlen . I remember the post bashing Billy Graham . It was ascribed to you on this thread . With the forum gone there was no way to check the accuracy [ not that I would have ].

I think the poster who ascribed the post to you owes you an apology , also,but I can only sweep my side of the street . I hope I did that to your satisfaction .

[quote

I will probablly get hammered for this because I am the new guy and this is a sensitive subject. Just my two cents. [/quote]


I'd say a brave and bold new guy.... Welcome Buck

Why bother.....

You guys are going to believe what you want, regardless of facts. Say what you want from here on and know that there will be few who call you to task for proof or reasons. (I've always said that a Christian should know what they believe and why, able to give a defense for their belief.)

PS, say anything you want about me from now on too, as I promise I will never see it.

If so,.. it can be shut down on the weekends.

Not likely, they would just head back here.

Where's the Bear Forum?

Better than having them here,no?

Kinda like Amsterdam ...

Oh yes, after all that is the reason that we have all been agitating all night(or in your case...day).

Guys:

Threads can be merged easily, as these two have been.

Anyone who tries to spread little fires on various forums/threads will find them all in one bruiser of a thread.

The initial reaction was expected and completely natural. The Campfire has to have its say, and that's all good.

But drawing out the bleeding for kicks ain't gonna happen.

rb

Never been at a campfire yet where you could talk religion without somebody getting upset.....Unless I was the only one at it....Pretty obvious here at this one too....

Decision has been made...let it go....

It's becoming more transparent every minute...why it was,that you were dreading closing that honey-hole down.

A lot of the crucial choices that we face and must make are (my term) "cardinal dichotomies."

One of the first is whether you see your relationship with God as
(a) God exists to bless and to serve me
or
(b) I exist to obey and to please God.

(Whether God exists isn't a matter of "whether" � it's fact.)

Another is whether your first loyalty is
(a) to Jesus
or
(b) to the church.

If you haven't yet faced these cardinal dichotomies, you will.* And God, in His infinite wisdom and inscrutable judgement, sees fit to let everyone make his own decisions without my doing it for anyone but myself and your doing it for anyone but yourself.

As Dad often said, there's no such thing as not deciding. Postponing a decision or refusing to decide is a decision.




*(The IRS called a pastor. "Is John Jones a member of your church?" "Yes, he is." "Did he give your church ten thousand dollars?" "No, but he will." )

Rick, had it not occurred to you that the same dissension from the other thread will simply be imported to here......after all...WE would not carry on like that, now would we.

It is very easy, give them back their forum call it something that encompasses all...and password the bloody thing.
James

Are people forced to read CATC? No one has ever forced me to look at or respond to any forum on this website.

Okay Ken, I am bored enough to play...........prove it.
James.

He already has.

The Dog is an interesting character. I love his prayers before the "hunt". If you were a betting man, what denomination would you say he was?

Wiccan

With a mullet like you can bet he's not Catholic or Mormon.

Rick, I'd like to think that CATC is the type of forum that God would use to enighten the believer, as well as to provide spiritual light and truth to the non-believer who is seeking, curious about who God is, what the Bible says about various issues concerning points of disagreement and discord, truth, salvation, etc.. Plainly, I see it as a ministry opportunity, as I hope you STILL do. No, I'm not trying to turn this particular forum into another CATC, merely to voice my opinion on your decision to cancel CATC, and this will be the only thread I initiate on this subject, and likely my last post on the matter. I hope that you will prayfully reconsider, pure and simple.

Taking heat very much comes with the territory, and I don't mind when it comes my way, either. I will stand by God's word at all costs, even if I get kicked out as a result or they collectively shout for my head, call me foul names - or whatever Paul describes many of the sufferings he endure for the cross of Jesus Christ in 2 Corinthians 11:24-28, and compared to what he endured, any suffering you and I put up with here is trivial.....

"From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils amoung false brethren; in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness - besides the other things what come upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches."

All that makes our disagreements seem pretty trivial, doesn't it?

AD

as well as to provide spiritual light and truth to the non-believer
=================================================================

You guys sure shed some light and truth on the non-believer alright!!

after having slept over this "issue" for a night or two, i'm in complete agreement with the owner of the forum to shut it down.

it's timely. just look at where we are in the process. got republicans of every stripe running for higher office. no sense in making things worse by holding on to ancient conditions.........

let's move forward, and thanks to the forum leader for knocking down the fences and gates that is holding the process back.

Rick, this character has just invited all to call him foul names and to generally take the piss out of him, so he cannot bitch if I or some other should choose to exercise the right conferred by the invitation.
you don't think that is why he got a pizzling on the other forum.....do you !

I suggest restraint.

rb

Oh Okay............if you insist.
James.

You seem to be reasonably intelligent so if you know anyone who was a victim of the cover ups by the �Church� then by all means tell us about it please. Since you are making accusations then I will just tell you how I really feel about the �Hierarchy� of the Catholic Church no I won�t but it suffices to say that it is not favorable. Go back and read what I wrote again please as I was responding to another post and was not condemning Catholics as individuals by ANY MEANS. I have attended Mass more times in my life than a lot of practicing Catholics and yes that in itself is meaningless some of my fondest memories are from the Nuns that would use the ruler to straighten me out show me the right path are also meaningless. I am sure that Sister Rose Marie (Principal at OLV ) is turning in her grave not from what I have typed but what happened to one of her boys! You see I was exposed to some of the best people on the planet during my early school years and the very few people that do what they do and hide it all for the sake of the coffers make me sick.

The point is here that everybody wails and moans about these things do nothing to end it. Think of it this way the tithing you do is helping to pay for those 100 million dollar settlements not to forward the principals that Catholicism is based upon.

All of this is horrible but it is fact so go ahead and cast aspersions about me some more but remember experience is a cruel teacher.

Now there three of these topics on the board that need to be locked....Four if you count the Word Association.....It ain't gonna get any better....

I'm finding myself in complete agreement with Bart.

Religous zealousness brings out the worst in folks. Shameful, embarrassing behavior from intelligent men, me thinks.

Management has made a decision and it's time to move on. If something is not nipped in the bud, the religous dogmatism will permeate this forum.

*checkin' pockets*

ok,.. I found 2 more cents.

To me,.. it's not even a religious situation. Rick Bin is a Catholic. He allows a huge amount of leeway in what get's discussed on *his* forum. (and anybody who looks around the internet knows that that's not real common)

For anybody to take advantage of the freedom of expression that Rick allows on *his* forum by bashing his religion is just plain old low class.

One major problem keeps me from agreeing with a lot of what you say � as I probably would if discussions of Christian facts and truths in such a lay forum were a sm�rg�sbord with all options equally and obviously valid or if the fallacious were always obviously fallacious.

The trouble is that discussions typical of those on CATC cause many to stumble, and inspire and encourage many false beliefs. I've seen this problem occur too many times � on CATC and elsewhere � for the reality and the effects of them to be debatable.

I've seen many sound statements argued in ways that attract many instead to the fallacious opposition to them,
� some times because the proponent of the Biblically sound is incapable of adequately explaining, defending, or supporting a simple, straight-forward statement of it �
� some times because the frivolous, snappy, or otherwise catchy argument of his opponent is somehow more attractive to the others who read it �
� some times because for one reason or another the sound proponent simply gives-up while the fallacious opponent continues �
� and of course some times as a result of more than one of these factors.

Religion is a [bleep] topic for the internet...Simple as that.

Dang, some guys can cut right to the chase.

rb

Good post Ken,

I have only one thing to say about all this....

"Kill a wolf for Jesus"



You did right Rick.

AMEN!

BMT

That it is, but once we get rid of them can't we just invade once in a while to beat them up...........after all one of them has already invited us to do so.

Hey, let's talk about FUN things.

Libby the Wonder Dog went to the beach yesterday. She got all sandy and dirty and salty. And she had a BLAST!!!!

And our Duramax got 21.2 mpg round-trip.

See, FUN stuff is NICE.

Steve

Great looking family there!

I'm sure Libby has you trained pretty good.

Next time, Steve Ol' Buddy, pose the pretty one nearer the camera.

Better than you can ever know. She has us trained to believe that she is the World's Greatest Puppy. Of course, she totally IS.

Steve

Old Friend,

Yes, the two ladies, canine and human, should be the subject. We have seen enough of me in pics, that's for sure. Beauty first.

Steve

Ken,

Here is a photo of the two ladies together. Both are YOUR girlfriends, for sure.

Steve

Shutting down the CATC forum was a great idea. It's got a LOT more guys involved in bickering!

LOTS better!

Almost had me huggin' my monitor!

A short-sleeve day at the Oregon coast! Good timing DZ!!!

Rick on second thought, maybe it wouldn't hurt to reopen that forum. Originally I agreed with you 100%, but now it looks like the same debates may have just moved over here.

You sure you didn't go to Our Lady Of Perpetual Responsibility?

And folks have a hard time understanding why that forum was 86'd?

AllenDay..or others..

Among other admonitions read Revelations 3, chapter one.

Christ at the Campfire was sorta like a 'church'..or fellowship.
For some, it may have been the only view they had of those who espouse to follow Christ....
Christ would close His eyes at some of the responses posted..but they had their affect to turn people from Him which is saddening.

We collectively didn't do a very good job at times hearing Christ's Holy Spirit..and so perhaps like that early church was threatened by Christ with dismissal, the owner of this website.... under Christ's direction, has removed that forum from validity.

As I said and hoped earlier on another topic related to the demise of CATC, let those of us who know Christ, who are endeavoring to follow Him by faith, let the love and truth of Christ shine in whatever we post(say) on any of these forums..
Sometimes the truth spoken in love is harsh..but when done at the unction of the Holy Spirit, it will have the desired result which God intends.
Hardened hearts ?or a heart which sees how God sees and changes and responds.

As opportunity arises and lead by Christ's Holy Spirit on any forum-topic, let us pray for help for those who are in need, offer our experiences in sundry and mundane things.

Not many will come to His call.
Let us not be those who inhibit those who seek or are in need by our cyber responses.

Ya never know..you may get a PM and help anpother thru a serious crisis.Jim

OK,Ken and Rick . Got a little logistics problem for you :

Awhile back when a poster [Big Stick } used THIS forum to start an anti-christian thread and it [predictably] heated up , y'all moved it down to CATC . Now when the religious right vs. the religious wrong debates heat up on here , where you gonna move 'em to ?

[Yeah , Ken gave me permission to end a sentence with one of them proposition thangs !]

Old Friend Ken,

Each day, I quite literally get down on my knees and thank God for bringing Karen into my life. It's forty-three years and counting. Every day is very, very special.

God bless you, friend.

Steve

Methinks He has.... both of you.

We DID time it.

We celebrate Holy Mass on Saturday evening (it's a Jewish/Catholic thing, called Vigil Mass), so we have Sunday as a fully-devotional and recreational day. Sunday was overcast and had occasional sprinkles, so we stayed home and did Devotions.

Monday was predicted to be perfect so, being retired, it really made no difference to us when we went. And Monday WAS perfect; obviously, less traffic over Sunset and the beach wasn't overloaded with folks. It was nice.

Those who know the Oregon Coast know that there are precious few PERFECT DAYS each year, maybe ten or so. The rest of the time, it rains, it fogs, it blows or it's really hot. Libby and her Mom & Dad (that would be us) totally enjoyed this single perfect day.

And if we never have another, that's OK. We had this one.

Steve

+1

GTC

"....Sorry Pal, you were righteous and God-fearing and accepted Jesus as your Saviour and all of that, but there's this total immersion clause...."

I'm glad CATC was deleted. People that, "constantly" claim Christ as their Savior as a whole are the most judgemental, unforgiving, and least neighborly people I know.

I'm not talking the people that quietly walk the talk and answer religious questions succinctly and plainly when asked. I'm talking the ones that think, that force feeding their version of spirituality on you, is what you want and need, regardless of your desires or inclinations.

I will take someone, that is a Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Mormon etc. any day over the born again, I've been saved, and all religions are cults and run by Satan people, that so often seem to congregate at something like CATC.

I have a very deep faith in Jesus Christ and his Atonement, but I hardly ever visited CATC because of the bashing and negativity that ran rampant.

Is not friendly curiosity reason enough? I have my FAITH and and I am very comfortable with my walk with Him. However I know others who are just as devout( or more so) in their own beliefs( some of them are very differnet from mine), how else am I to understand the differences we have( and clear up my own potential misconceptions) if I don't ask questions? I am not saying an attack is ok ( it never is in these discussions) but what is wrong with asking honest questions to try to gain clairity? Is that "bashing" or being judgemental in some way ? If the individual being asked does not want to answer that is fine, we can still be friendly an polite to each other can't we?

There was a time I not only thought so, but fully expected it.

Sadly, that turned out not to be a reasonable expectation.

Go figure.

rb

After wandering through many of the forums here it was great to read the experiences of so many in God's creation. The journey so many have taken and the view of it through their eyes, tended to put a smile on my heart and an OH YEAH on my lips.

These adventures by others have been part of a renewal of my faith and a yearning to live it through my daily life.

Then I would adventure down to the CATC and go What the He??....

Having never posted in CATC I only ask this question because it's intriguing to me. I honestly ask it without knowing the faith and denomination of most all posters.

How would those that support the removal of CATC fall in the below categories?

1 � non believers
2 � Catholics
3 � believers other than Catholics

Same here.

What would Jesus do? I really don�t know. I�m not nearly as versed in scriptures as I should be but I do remember that Jesus physically destroyed temples with his own hands due to the blasphemy that abound.

The way I remember the story He overturned the tables of the money changers and drove them out of the temple. The people who came to sacrifice had to change their regular money into temple money to buy the temple approved animal to sacrifice at much profit to those in the money changing business and the temple leaders. The Lord took a dim view of that, it seems. A few years after His death the Romans destroyed the temple leaving no stone on top of another fulfilling His prophesy.

I'm hoping that wasn't judgemental, unforgiving or un-neighborly.

You are right Rick.

24hourcampfire is not censored. Heck I am living proof

As for there being any "diabolical side to this". Well that is just foolish. Oh man there I go again!

I have only seen one person banned from 24hourcampfire in all my time here. Heck even people that don't think Smallmouth bass are number 1 get a say. That is crazy but I don't make the rules!

Thats the way I remember it too. I tend to exaggerate.

Wasn't that just after he'd cursed the fig tree for not baring fruit?

I guess Rick doesn't feel like driving them out or cursing them?

One sect's blasphemy is often another's dogma.

That's why Jesus always spoke in parables and made it a habit to answer a question with a question. Folks sure can put a spin on a passage.....

My comments are at the bottom of the quote, not sure why it didn't appear separately.

I will do the best that I can to serve my Lord during my life; God will sort out who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. In the meantime, I will love Him, read the Bible, and do what in my heart of hearts I believe He calls me to do.

Just because someone says I'm going to heaven (or hell) does not make it so...

Penny

Penny:

This is what the Pope ACTUALLY said:

�It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church�[12]."

That's verbatim from the document.

Here's the link to the entire document:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...oc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

I'll let you figure out how the statement quoted above is interpreted by some to mean "the world wide LEADER of the Catholic Church is saying everybody that isn't catholic is going to Hell."

Here's a hint: He didn't, and you're not.

rb

#3

Cause now I'll feel free to interject my beliefs into many different threads without the dumb masses crying for me to take it to CATC


Mike

Gee, persecution is just so great. People,we worship the same god, and we hold the same person as the son of God, why fer cryin' out loud do we have to do this stupid little my faith is better than yours. We are actin' like Muzzies fer cryin' out loud.

Good point!

Hey Rick!!! It is times like this i am glad I am not you!!!Stay the course brother.

Rick, I wasn't referring to the Pope in my message. I was instead thinking of those at CATC who would dare to say that someone else was going to hell. I don't believe the Pope said that.

If you promise not to tell anyone, I will admit to having a rosary and praying it sometimes. And no, I'm not Catholic.

Penny

Exactly, hence my disdain towards organized religion as a whole.

I know what you mean,Box . I ain't a member of an organized religion -- I'm a Baptist !

I always had some trouble with that. It's suppose to represent death and rebirth. I probably mis spoke in an earlier post in saying that I believe total emersion is required. I believe that baptism is necessary as an act or show of faith as required by Christ him self.
What brought the question to mind originally was when I saw my grand father baptized into his primitive Baptist church. I remember the discussions among the adults about the necessity of total emersion. It could have been bad because he had his larynx removed some years before and he had a hole in his throat. I thought, why is so important when it endangers someone, wouldn't water over his head suffice. He was baptized by total emersion and it worked out ok, but still...

Hey, how many 14 year old kids see grandpa babtized?

Thinkin' He was hungry and a little out of sorts? Could be.....could be.

Penny:

I know who you were quoting, and I just had to correct it again for fear that disinformation would again spread.

The Pope did NOT say all non-Catholics are going to hell!

Nice to hear about the Rosary. Didn't hurt a bit, did it?

rb

Rick, I actually carry my roasry everywhere, it is always in the truck with me, guess i would feel a bit uncomfortable without it. My daughter is getting to be the same way. Les

It is deep discussions like this that finds me asking an important question:

What would Stick say??


Probably couldnt repeat it here

Please note that not everyone there stated you were wrong. I remember stating I do not believe as you do but I do not judge you. That is NOT my job; it is up to the Lord to judge each and every one of us. Not all non-Mormons hate or condemn you.

Which is why I voted against the creation of CATC back in September of 2002! I am simply unable to excise my love for Jesus from my everyday conversation--it's part of me, deal with it.

I enjoyed reading there, but it's gone. Oh well.

Penny
This crazy Spirit filled tongues speaking lunatic follower of Jesus has a Rosary and has used it and often uses Centering Prayer too.

Bash away all who think any or any of the above condemns me to the lake of fire, I choose to be judged by a higher authority.

An interesting experience. A different kind of prayer (for me), but a spiritual and valid prayer just the same.

I can pray in the manner of a number of different denominations; I guess that's not a surprise for a language teacher.

A funny story is that one year during Lent the Newman Community (Catholic student group) on my campus decided to get together at noon and spend an hour praying the rosary together out loud. I went and joined them, and during the first iteration of "Our Father," they all stopped at "...and deliver us from evil." I kept on going.

The one non-Catholic in the room had been "outed!"

Another funny story happened when I was about 7 years old. My family subscribed to "Life" magazine every week. During that time, the covers were mostly in black and white... but one week a new Pope had been named (Pope Paul??? It would have been about 1954 or so). "Life" magazine arrived with a beautiful full-color picture of the Pope on the cover. I took a look at the framed black and white picture of my father on one of the end tables in the living room, and went and took a pair of scissors, cut the cover off of "Life," and slipped the Pope's picture into the frame over my father's picture.

My mother came into the room and almost fainted. "Penny, take that picture out right away!" she ordered. "Someone might come to the door and think we're Catholic."

I didn't understand why that would be such a bad thing back then, and I still don't.

And my third (final) story. When I was a freshman in college, my Mother underwent surgery for removal of an ovarian cyst (which also resulted in her having a hysterectomy). At the time I didn't really understand the details of the surgery, just that she was far away from me and I loved her very much, and I couldn't imagine what I would do if she didn't make it through the surgery.

I felt a need to go somewhere and ask God, from the bottom of my heart, to please make sure she came through it all right. So from among about 6 churches in town, I went to the Catholic church. I was able to kneel, which I really wanted to do, and I just KNEW that God was in that church. I could kneel and clasp my hands and close my eyes and just stay that way for the longest time... and it felt very right.

So there you have my stories: the rosary flub, the Pope's framed picture in our living room, and knowing beyond a doubt that God was in the Catholic church and would listen to me when I prayed.

Penny