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Sir Ron,

Thanks for your comments on my latest blog.

Say, did you pull the trigger on the 340 when that bear tried to poke it's nose through the tent wall? I was picturing that in my mind and thought what a "blast" that would be! When I shot the moose with mine the blast was dissipated in the open clear cut, never noticing it.

But years ago when I shot my first bear with a .458 WIN (Ruger 77) with a 22" barrel, the blast permanently damaged my right ear drum. I fired a shot off before arriving at the site and noticed no effect on my ears. I'm now almost totally deaf in my right ear (the one closest to the muzzle, and swore off ever having another 22" .458 Win). However, the 22" Ruger No.1 in .45-70 LT was never an issue, so I figured another 22", .458 might be acceptable since the .45-70 LT's muzzle was closer still to my right ear not having an action. I enquired at the time (on AR) as to potential causes and I believe you were the only one who responded, suggesting I may have had an infection in the ear. I didn't know you were a medic. But the truth is/was that I did have a throat infection that affected my speech.

So the long and short of that is I'd gladly have another Ruger 77. The current Ruger No.1 in .458 is 40" overall and has the Mag-na-ports, which makes muzzle blast closer still to my right ear than the Ruger bolt action 77. I'm not offended by the No.1 in wooded areas but I do use ear plugs.

Question: I have used muffs both at the range and in hunting with the built-in audio system, permitting good hearing in hunting (In fact, too good as in walking I hear crunching sounds under my feet, and carpenter ants in a tree next to me sounded like a woodsman with a chain saw!) but in shooting at the range they do adequately block muzzle blast. However, for hunting purposes I've stopped using them as they amplify all sounds too much and become uncomfortable.

So, any recommendations as to those electronic ear plugs that seem to work well and yet are unobtrusive?

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


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And, I should note that by simply turning down the volume on the ear muffs doesn't work either as then they don't pick up any sounds more than a few metres away!

Bob
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From Sir Bob, and my responses in red:

Thanks for your comments on my latest blog.

Welcome. My pleasure to be sure. A week is greatly diminished without another Bob Blog Installment.

Say, did you pull the trigger on the 340 when that bear tried to poke it's nose through the tent wall? I was picturing that in my mind and thought what a "blast" that would be! When I shot the moose with mine the blast was dissipated in the open clear cut, never noticing it.

I rolled away from the side of the tent that the Kodiak bear was pressing on and toward the tent flap,
stuck the muzzle of the 340 Wby through the tent flap and fired.
The earth moved as he fled. I suppose the noise and muzzle flash both were not to his liking on a moonless night.
I had a flashlight on his 8-footer's butt as he vanished into the tall grass of Spiridon Moor, beside Spiridon Lake, beside Spiridon Bay,
on the northwest by west side of Kodiak.


But years ago when I shot my first bear with a .458 WIN (Ruger 77) with a 22" barrel, the blast permanently damaged my right ear drum. I fired a shot off before arriving at the site and noticed no effect on my ears. I'm now almost totally deaf in my right ear (the one closest to the muzzle, and swore off ever having another 22" .458 Win). However, the 22" Ruger No.1 in .45-70 LT was never an issue, so I figured another 22", .458 might be acceptable since the .45-70 LT's muzzle was closer still to my right ear not having an action. I enquired at the time (on AR) as to potential causes and I believe you were the only one who responded, suggesting I may have had an infection in the ear. I didn't know you were a medic. But the truth is/was that I did have a throat infection that affected my speech.

That is why a cold, allergies, sorethroat can ground a pilot. A little inflamation or swelling around the eustachian tube opening in the throat can make the eardrum prone to rupture with pressure changes, barotrauma, muzzle blasts, altitude changes, when pressures on both sides of the eardrum cannot rapidly equalize.
You must have been as much or more a victim of your throat condition as of the muzzleblast.


So the long and short of that is I'd gladly have another Ruger 77. The current Ruger No.1 in .458 is 40" overall and has the Mag-na-ports, which makes muzzle blast closer still to my right ear than the Ruger bolt action 77. I'm not offended by the No.1 in wooded areas but I do use ear plugs.

Question: I have used muffs both at the range and in hunting with the built-in audio system, permitting good hearing in hunting (In fact, too good as in walking I hear crunching sounds under my feet, and carpenter ants in a tree next to me sounded like a woodsman with a chain saw!) but in shooting at the range they do adequately block muzzle blast. However, for hunting purposes I've stopped using them as they amplify all sounds too much and become uncomfortable.

I have a set of electronic muffs too, and think about them same as you.

So, any recommendations as to those electronic ear plugs that seem to work well and yet are unobtrusive?

Bob
www.bigbores.ca
END BOB QUOTE

Riflecrank says:
I have not tried the in-the-ear-canal electronic aid/hearing protection method.
I really ought to.
I do not have any professional opinion to offer on them.
Will have to "look" into that, for others' experience and opinions.
First I need to try a different method, the suppressor/silencer, on the .458 WM.
Dang if all the hunting shows haven't started showing rifles like the 28 Nosler with big, long cans on the muzzles, muzzle mufflers.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

It took fingerprinting and 7 months for the ATFE, FBI, local Sheriff and whomever to provide the $200 tax stamp
that must accompany a suppressor at all times.
Of course it should not be used with paper-patched and gas-checked cast bullets, BP, fillers and sabots.
Probably even .461" hardcast with PC paint should be avoided.
Oh well, I'll have to shoot smokeless and jacketed/monometal for Bushwhacker 46-ing.
Monoflex 250-grainer for a supersonic crack.
Subsonic heavies at close range, how slow can I go in a 1:14" twist ?
Ah ha ! An 18" barrel will help slow it down without a too-empty case.
Finally, a use for a short barrel.



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Zeroing in on the Saint Bagwell Memorial Load to turn the SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum into a BPCR:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



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This public domain book was published over a century ago and preached by Saint Bagwell over a century after publication.
The passage that Saint Bagwell alluded to is on pages 81 and 82 of this nearly 400-page text,
profusely illustrated with gritty black&white photos
of recovered bullets and targets and personages and equipment and drawings and graphs and equations, etc.:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

That right there is self-deprecatingly hilarious !
Dr. Mann added his "mite" to the world of scientific progress, not his "might."

The important observations:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Cast bullet bump-up occurs in the first 10" of barrel with a BPCR.
The bullet will bump up as it exits the muzzle of a 10" barrel.
Not if the barrel is one inch longer !
Bullets were fired into snow and "oiled sawdust" for collection and measurement.
Dr. Mann was an M.D. who probably would have druthered to be shooting than practicing medicine,
whenever he could have his druthers.
That preface above tells how his hobby started at age 12 in 1868.
It only took 41 years to get that book ready for publication.



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[Linked Image]

A paper-patched, softcast 480-grain "PH" at 1300 to 1400 fps in the SAAMI .458 WM-BPCR: Takes care of business.
A powder-coat painted, hardcast 480-grain FNGC at 1800 to 2200 fps in the SAAMI .458 WM-Smokeless: Will gitterdun.
A Hornady DGX and DGS 480-grain at 2200 to 2300 fps in the SAAMI .458 WM: Cool beans at 3.340" COL.
A monometal copper or brass soft or solid at 2300 to 2400 fps in a .458 WM+: The spice of life at 3.580" COL.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



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Onward with "The Crusade" Sir Ron! cool.........a Mad Scientist in his load shop never sleeps ; ]


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Sir Jerry,
Always and forever the truth about the .458 Winchester Magnum must be revealed !
BTW,
Whatever happened to the Original Sharps .45-110 Buffalo Rifle you were looking at ?
You never started a thread on the BPCR forum about that.
Did you pass on it or is it at home on the range with you ?

When I get the mould for the .450"-diameter (-.000"/+.002") slick (550 grains in WW)
it will be interesting to compare notes on your Hellbender load for the .45-110 to see if it can be imitated with the .458 WM-BPCR.




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Yes Sir on the 458 Win Mag TRUTH, and yes on the 45-110, those pics were taken from the dining room table that i have commandeered and cluttered with GUN stuff! [per little Wife] LOL! she likes it.


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OK will soon be seeing Sir Jerry's pristine Sharps of Quigley's favorite chambering, an 1874 delivered about 1877 to Montana, IIRC.

NEWS FLASH:

https://www.midwayusa.com

Norma .458 Winchester Magnum "reloading brass" is back in stock at Midway USA.
It may cost nearly twice as much as Hornady brass, but that is still out of stock at Midway USA.
Might as well bite the bullet.
I want to see if it is still about 5 grains of water greater in capacity than Hornady.
And also, it is now my favorite BPCR brass.




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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
From Sir Bob, and my responses in red:

Thanks for your comments on my latest blog.

Welcome. My pleasure to be sure. A week is greatly diminished without another Bob Blog Installment.

Say, did you pull the trigger on the 340 when that bear tried to poke it's nose through the tent wall? I was picturing that in my mind and thought what a "blast" that would be! When I shot the moose with mine the blast was dissipated in the open clear cut, never noticing it.

I rolled away from the side of the tent that the Kodiak bear was pressing on and toward the tent flap,
stuck the muzzle of the 340 Wby through the tent flap and fired.
The earth moved as he fled. I suppose the noise and muzzle flash both were not to his liking on a moonless night.
I had a flashlight on his 8-footer's butt as he vanished into the tall grass of Spiridon Moor, beside Spiridon Lake, beside Spiridon Bay,
on the northwest by west side of Kodiak.


But years ago when I shot my first bear with a .458 WIN (Ruger 77) with a 22" barrel, the blast permanently damaged my right ear drum. I fired a shot off before arriving at the site and noticed no effect on my ears. I'm now almost totally deaf in my right ear (the one closest to the muzzle, and swore off ever having another 22" .458 Win). However, the 22" Ruger No.1 in .45-70 LT was never an issue, so I figured another 22", .458 might be acceptable since the .45-70 LT's muzzle was closer still to my right ear not having an action. I enquired at the time (on AR) as to potential causes and I believe you were the only one who responded, suggesting I may have had an infection in the ear. I didn't know you were a medic. But the truth is/was that I did have a throat infection that affected my speech.

That is why a cold, allergies, sorethroat can ground a pilot. A little inflamation or swelling around the eustachian tube opening in the throat can make the eardrum prone to rupture with pressure changes, barotrauma, muzzle blasts, altitude changes, when pressures on both sides of the eardrum cannot rapidly equalize.
You must have been as much or more a victim of your throat condition as of the muzzleblast.


So the long and short of that is I'd gladly have another Ruger 77. The current Ruger No.1 in .458 is 40" overall and has the Mag-na-ports, which makes muzzle blast closer still to my right ear than the Ruger bolt action 77. I'm not offended by the No.1 in wooded areas but I do use ear plugs.

Question: I have used muffs both at the range and in hunting with the built-in audio system, permitting good hearing in hunting (In fact, too good as in walking I hear crunching sounds under my feet, and carpenter ants in a tree next to me sounded like a woodsman with a chain saw!) but in shooting at the range they do adequately block muzzle blast. However, for hunting purposes I've stopped using them as they amplify all sounds too much and become uncomfortable.

I have a set of electronic muffs too, and think about them same as you.

So, any recommendations as to those electronic ear plugs that seem to work well and yet are unobtrusive?

Bob
www.bigbores.ca
END BOB QUOTE

Riflecrank says:
I have not tried the in-the-ear-canal electronic aid/hearing protection method.
I really ought to.
I do not have any professional opinion to offer on them.
Will have to "look" into that, for others' experience and opinions.
First I need to try a different method, the suppressor/silencer, on the .458 WM.
Dang if all the hunting shows haven't started showing rifles like the 28 Nosler with big, long cans on the muzzles, muzzle mufflers.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

It took fingerprinting and 7 months for the ATFE, FBI, local Sheriff and whomever to provide the $200 tax stamp
that must accompany a suppressor at all times.
Of course it should not be used with paper-patched and gas-checked cast bullets, BP, fillers and sabots.
Probably even .461" hardcast with PC paint should be avoided.
Oh well, I'll have to shoot smokeless and jacketed/monometal for Bushwhacker 46-ing.
Monoflex 250-grainer for a supersonic crack.
Subsonic heavies at close range, how slow can I go in a 1:14" twist ?
Ah ha ! An 18" barrel will help slow it down without a too-empty case.
Finally, a use for a short barrel.

Sir Ron,

Many thanks for your detailed response to my inquiry.

After your response on AR, I began thinking about it and was basically aware of a connection between the throat and ears and assumed that was likely the main problem but still blamed the short barrel of the Ruger 77. But as explained, when the Ruger .45-70LT with its shortness (38 1/4") didn't seem problematic, I relented on that view but have been careful, nonetheless, to protect my hearing that's left.

And thanks for that depiction of the Kodiak bear's flight in the darkness at the blast from your .340.

With deep respect and appreciation,

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


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More about the versatility of the .458 Winchester Magnum:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

This guy is biting a rubber loop on his left sleeve to support his head:

[Linked Image]

This guy has a wide strap looped for supporting his neck, tensioned by the left forearm and left hand that also grips the buttstock:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]



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That Brit a'int shooting no 44-77 or 44-90.

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Yes, probably not .44 Sharps and Remington cartridges for the old guy with the Farquharson above,
more likely .461 Gibbs No. 1 or No. 2 or the .45-2.4" Match or .45-2.6" Match that John Rigby copied from Sharps
when he finally quit the muzzleloaders.
Creedmoor 1874 Irish team were all shooting muzzleloaders built by Rigby, as pictured above:
.451" bore, with loads starting as light as 530-grain PP bullet with 85 grains of BP and working up from there.
Essentially same loads as the BPCRs but with not as good gas seal around the percussion cap on the ML.

Here is the old guy transitioning away from his ML to his BPCR:

"Sir Henry Halford is shown in the following two pictures. The upper picture is from 1877 when he was Captain of the Great Britain team to Creedmoor to shoot against the USA. The lower picture was published in 1893 and was titled 'Sighting a Shot.' Note that the placement of the butt varies between pictures. Halford is shown in 1877 firing a muzzle loading rifle with tang-mounted sight, where as in 1893 he has a breech-loading rifle with heel-mounted sight."

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/index.php/marksmanship/art-of-shooting/the-back-position

All of them were like a .458 WM-BPCR.
The .45-bore was the first and still best caliber for 1000-yard match shooting, the small bore of yore,
and also the best BP express rifle to become a dangerous game rifle as a Nitro Express, and still tops.

Note how Sir Henry Halford's front sight is moved way back from the muzzle, shortening the sight radius otherwise possible.
Must be to maintain the graduation yardages on the vernier that was moved to heel instead of tang.
That might work on a .458 WM-BPCR Match Rifle with a 25" barrel and front sight forward, robbed from a longer-barreled Pedersoli tang.



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H. Fulton is the one shooting the Rolling Block below, like the one that he used to score as the highest individual shooter
of all the American and Irish competitors of Creedmoor 1874. Sorry Sharps guys.

"Two further contemporary views of shooters adopting similar positions as above are top, G.W. Yale (USA) and bottom H. Fulton (USA). Both illustrations are from the 1870s. Yale has a Sharps and Fulton a Remington breech loading rifle."

[Linked Image]

Irishman J. K. Mllner blew it by scoring a miss (0) by shooting a bullseye on the wrong target at 1000 yards with his Rigby muzzleloader.
American General Dakin blew it for his team by toasting the Irish with too much champagne just before the final round at 1000 yards,
in which his performance dropped off dismally ... with a Sharps.
Old man John Bodine cut his trigger hand on a newfangled soda pop bottle just before his last shot of the day.
Bodine wrapped his bloody hand with a hanky and saved the day with a bullseye from the prone position, belly down.
It was the last shot of the day, at 1000 yards, with a Remington Rolling Block.
They called him "Old Reliable" ever after.
Sorry Sharps guys.

Considering all that, the Americans truly did deserve the win that day, with 3 Sharps and 3 Remingtons.

American score: 934, Top Shooter's score: H. Fulton, 171
Irish score: 931, Top Shooter's score: J. Rigby, 163



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Good stuff as always Sir Ron, and lest we not forget ALL the African critters laid in the salt via the Great 461 Gibbs and 450 BPE rifles, the Brits had it going on very well.


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The 461 Gibbs could indeed be a twin to the 44-77 Sharps as could the 450 BPE 3-1/4" be a brother to the 45 3-1/4" Sharps ; ]

A lot of similarities in those days, all cooler than today's rage over the "six five manbun." sick]


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Sir Ron, have you ever gotten a chance to fire any of your chopped Barnes monometal bullets with larger hollowpoints into any media (including water) to compare expansion behavior with stock bullets over a given velocity range?

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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
OK will soon be seeing Sir Jerry's pristine Sharps of Quigley's favorite chambering, an 1874 delivered about 1877 to Montana, IIRC.

NEWS FLASH:

https://www.midwayusa.com

Norma .458 Winchester Magnum "reloading brass" is back in stock at Midway USA.
It may cost nearly twice as much as Hornady brass, but that is still out of stock at Midway USA.
Might as well bite the bullet.
I want to see if it is still about 5 grains of water greater in capacity than Hornady.
And also, it is now my favorite BPCR brass.



This forum member may still have some Norma brass at a cheaper rate...I got a little myself!

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...mo-barnes-woodleigh-bullets#Post16070945

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Originally Posted by gunner500
The 461 Gibbs could indeed be a twin to the 44-77 Sharps as could the 450 BPE 3-1/4" be a brother to the 45 3-1/4" Sharps ; ]

A lot of similarities in those days, all cooler than today's rage over the "six five manbun." sick]



Well, at least the six five manbun got a SAAMI designation that makes it sound interesting, historic.
Yes many similarities on both sides of the pond.
The real Creedmoor models (Rigby ML, Sharps 1874, Remington RB), and fanciful M70 African BPCR do have a lot in common:
same BP ballistics with 530 to 550-gr paper patched bullets in .45-bore, ditto the .461 Gibbs that Selous killed the Big Five with,
maximum rifle weight of 10 pounds
minimum trigger pull of 3 pounds
no scopes

I just need to get a vernier sight on the heel of a .458 WM-BPCR and I am ready to go to the matches.
Black powder is of course the ideal propellant for 550-grain paper patched bullets.
No smokeless load could deliver the uniformity at the perfect velocity for prone or back position shooting.
Perfect for getting a 75-foot rise in the trajectory on the way to a 1000-yard target.

Frank C. Barnes did a lot of shooting with 1:14" twist .45-70 Gov't. custom rifles.
He liked 1:14" best, would not want one slower than 1:16" twist, though admitting the experts warned against anything faster than 1:18" twist.
The 1:14" twist test is coming up for my .458 WM-BPCR, with duplexed BP and paper patch.
Duplexed BP and paper-patched lead with a lube cookie is cleaner shooting than any smokeless-jacketed load.
After 50 rounds, with no wiping or blowing,
the former shows trace BP fouling and no lead fouling.
while the latter will show smokeless powder fouling and heavy copper or brass or gilding metal fouling.



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