Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game What is a good working definition of a "premium bullet"?

It has leveled off some, compared to the red-hot appreciation rates and short DOM's we were seeing as recently as last year. I like it better this way in some ways; it's a more balanced dynamic than the pure seller's market we had going. Both sides have some leverage now. Negotiations are more fun for a professional negotiater when one side isn't carrying all the big sticks!

I use this forum, and a couple others (other hobbies), as breaks from some of the tedious parts of the job. Yesterday, for instance, I was putting together my August edition of my newsletter... bleah! Then things get nutty and I'll disapear for days at a time. Funny job that way.

-jeff

Aw, c'mon guys! A PREMIUM bullet is one that costs twice as much as the others! Sheesh!

GaryVA "eliminate" expansion? You mean a solid?

I once defined a premium bullet as any expanding big game bullet designed to retain over half its weight. I'll stand by that.

I love the tiony distinctions between the classes of premiums some have come up with here. When reading them, however, I wonder if anybody has seen a reasonable sample of animals with each bullet, enough to discern any difference in field performance.

I have seen a bunch of game shot with about all the commonly available premiums (by my definition) on the U.S. market today, and some that aren't available here. Except in extreme circumstances, my conclusion is that if you use any of them, in a cartridge vaguely appropriate for the purpose, and shoot straight, then you'll shortly have a dead animal.

But that isn't much fun to talk about.

JB

I guess I'll be using a non-premium bullet on elk this fall.

The Berger VLD.

The opposite of a Sierra. jorge

That's funny, Jorge! I take it you are not a Sierra cult member?

Hey, what do you fly, anyway? I've been around aviation a little. Worked for a guy flying A-10's (and hoping they'd get F-16's)in the Guard 20 years ago and ALMOST got a ride with him one time... and then I worked for a blimp company for about 5 years after college and spent a lot of time around A&P's as well as small airports. Got some stick time on the bloated thing, too. Then it crashed and that was that.

Anyway, "Premium" is, as far as I can tell, a sliding scale that keeps getting adjusted upwards.

-jeff

Beyond a cup and core solid, you don't think a Naval bronze jacket with a fusion-bonded hard lead core solid is a "premium"?

GVA

Jeff: I flew Vikings (S3Bs). The plane on my Avatar is a T-2 Buckeye jet trainer that at flew in the Training Command and I also flew T-39s and A-4s. jorge

Jeff, my late dad was a very wise and witty man who did his best instructed me well as I was growing up. He told me that "it's the little things that'll trip you up", and I've taken that message to heart in all areas of my life, hunting bullets included.

I advocate premium hunting bullets for all-around use, and I call any of the following premium bullets: Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame, Trophy-Bonded Bearclaws, Barnes X & TSX, North Fork, Bitterroot, and Woodleigh. I've used all of them on game myself but for the Bitterroots and Woodleighs. Following these bullets is.......everything else.

Even if, as Brad says, true premiums, such as those I listed, are only truly necessary 1% of the time, I want that 1%.........

AD

Gary,

That's exactly what I was asking. Nobody else brought up the subject of solids. I agree that there are premium solids (and wish the tungstenb-cored Speer was still made), but it seemed a littl off-subject. So I asked.

JB

I don't know what an appropriate definition would be. But I do know it is a good thing that some of us don't design bridges for a living... they'd collapse under their own weight.

There is something in our different makeups, I'm convinced, that determines what kind of safety factor we are comfortable with. Can be good or bad depending on the circumstances. Took me a while to become comfortable with a lower level of 'over design' in things. Was a time I would never have countenanced using aluminum pistons.

Will

Hunting whitetails and antelope won't teach anyone very much about bullets, because such critters aren't that hard to kill with 'most any bullet.

I've learned most of what I've come to beleive in about bullets from 30 + years of elk hunting, as well as from a great deal of African hunting over the last dozen years. For elk, I want tough bullets - period - and I've had problems with certain non-premium bullets coming apart prematurely on elk.

With one exception, I've always used premium soft-points in Africa, and sometimes the same, exact load for everything from dik dik to eland, plus lion and Cape buffalo. To this day, I have never seen that true premium bullets are in any way a handicap at all, and they will not only largely prevent the destruction of capes on small animals, but they will ensure complete penetration and top performance where you need it most on the big, tough stuff, as well as the stuff that can fight back.

Premium bullets are the best life insureance that I can think of, as well as the best hunt insurance............

Wherein lies all of the confusion, anyway?

AD

JB,

Sorry, I was only answering Jeff's post/question asking our individual thoughts on defining a "premium bullet". I never knew this term in unwritten words was exclusive and implied only to expanding bullets and solids were not included. My bad, didn't mean to break any pc rules and go off topic.

If it's improper to use the adjective "premium" to describe or modify "bullet" when speaking or writing about the Naval bronze jacket with a fusion-bonded hard lead core solid; what adjective can I use that is pc?

BTW, I think it is unfair that my including the specialized solid in my individual definition of "premium bullets" is off subject, yet it is okay for you to agree that the same bullet is a "premium" in your above post. But, you are the writer and I'm just your lowly reader.

later,
GVA

In Scandinavian hunting magazines a premium bullet means a bullet with controlled expansion. What I would call "semi controlled expansion" bullets like Lapua Mega , Hornady Interlock or others are just called standard bullets.

Of course some premium bullets are "better" than others,(Perhaps we should call them Super Premium bullets?), or in other word lose less weight and penetrates better, the same can also be said about standard bullets - some are better than others.

a premium boolit, as many of my friends would say, is any boolit that has a full length gas check.

Just like Ornithologists are devoted to the scientific study of birds, JB could found the scientific study of bullets. He could call this science Bulletology and those degreed in this field could be Bulletologists.

These Bulletologists could then organize the species of bullets into family groups that share certain structural characteristics. Each species of bullet could be given a two part Latin scientific name to indicate the genus and species. JB could then publish a Bulletologists Field Guide that breaks it all down w/ measurements, behavioral traits, range of use, pictures and illustrations, etc. We could use this field guide to quickly identify each bullet and how they stack up amongst the plethora of bullets out there.

Something along the lines of Plumbum-hunting, super controlled expanion - bonded frame core, commonly known as Swift A-frame. We can then throw out the inferior catch-all adjective "premium".

GVA

I never agreed with the phrase "Controlled Expansion" as bullet design tends to "Restrict Expansion" or "Enhance Expansion".

Controlling expansion is better demonstrated by velocity variations rather than the mechanics of design. This is why standard cup and core bullet design can be superior in small to standard cartridge case designs and appear inferior in magnum cases where velocity is greater than the intended muzzle velocities the bullet was designed for.

A Premium bullet to me therefore, would be a custom design that makes attempt to retain weight and limit expansion width in order to enhance penetration.

Failsafe, TSX, Swift-A-Frame, MRX and Nosler Partition are good examples of custom design whereas other so called premiums such as Woodleigh, Sirocco, Ultra, Fusion and Accubond may be a little tougher than standard cup and core designs on paper, but are still heavily dependent on muzzle velocities around that of standard cartridges in order to demonstrate an edge in both retained weight and penetration.

In this regard, the grey area of confusion is widened as they cloud the gap between the cup and core design and the custom design.

AGW

AGW,

I once ran into an outfitter whose favorite cartridge was the .300 Winchester Magnum and whose two favorite bullets were the Barnes TSX and Woodleigh Weldcore. There probably aren't two other premiums with more opposite designs--and results--so I asked him why. He said because they retained more weight than any of the others! Apparently he had never noticed that the Woodleighs didn't penetrate nearly as deeply! If they retained lots of weight, he was happy....

JB

Gary,

No need to apologize or attempt to be pc! It just kind of jumped out at me after all the yak about this or that expanding bullet.

What we probably actually need is a "solid" that gets inside, then explodes. With the right timing it would work on everything, including elephants. But would that be pc?

JB

MD, you worry me about the Woodleighs.... most DR are regulated for them.