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Re: Tss shells [Re: Pappy348] #16136743 06/02/21
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Originally Posted by Pappy348
Originally Posted by MOGC
Pappy,
As I said, a dead gobbler is a dead gobbler. Do as you see fit and good luck in that endeavour.


Thanks, I usually do.

I spent a lot of time, effort, and money on assembling my setups and testing them to determine their capabilities. After all that, people that toss around terms like “stunt shooter” piss me off. Going out and buying a box of shells and going hunting without checking the patterns seems like more of a stunt to me. I know because I’ve done it. Opportunities here are too scarce to squander them trusting to luck.


I know the drill. My Benelli M1 12 gauge with Indian Creek .665" hits the 200 pellet strikes in 10" @ 40 yards mark with the Hevi13 3-2-6 shell. I shoot TSS #3 & #4's on coyotes. Or tungsten BB or T shot. I've been around a little bit myself and understand the effort it takes to work out a good combination. You use your pop gun and it works for you, good on ya. My turkey hunting guns start at 20 gauge and work up the ladder. It's all good.


Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
BP-B2

Re: Tss shells [Re: Kenneth] #16136978 06/02/21
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Well, I did manage to take a nice Tom 2 weekends ago, 44 yards, very good shot, breast meat looked perfect, Very little blood and very little apparent damage from the #5 lead shot,

But yet, My Son bit into 2 pieces of shot that I did not see when field dressing,

Made me think twice about TSS.

Re: Tss shells [Re: Kenneth] #16140493 06/03/21
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I'm on another hunting site. They have a lot of PA turkey hunters on the site who are using TSS. Many are using 20 gage or .410 guns and TSS is an advantage in those gages. Besides the smaller gages many guys mentioned the extreme range of TSS as one of the main reason they are shooting it.

As the season progressed the guys posted their kills and the details. What I found interesting was that most of the kills were under 35 yards and many were at 15 or 20 yards.

At the ranges the guys are getting their turkeys good old lead shot would work fine.

I did buy a pound of TSS to reload for turkey but have not shot it. I'll save my TSS for the ducks.

Re: Tss shells [Re: Kenneth] #16140780 06/03/21
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I doubt I’ll carry anything over a 20ga for turkeys again. TSS isn’t about extending range for me. It’s about efficiency in smaller gauges. It’s more than efficient enough to do everything from my 20s, that I ever did with a 12. I’m not worried about it not having the ability to penetrate the body on a bad shot, after I’ve had #9 TSS flyers penetrate through the entire chest cavity, including bot wingbones, at over 40 yards, and keep going. I’ve used #6/7/8/9 TSS in 20ga in 3 different guns, and it penetrates better and patterns far tighter than anything I’ve used in the last 35 years of turkey hunting. I still have some 7s and 8s, but those and 6s are almost overkill. Until you’ve seen the penetration, patterning, and on game performance, it’s easy to doubt. I’d shoot running coyotes with #4-5 (or smaller) TSS all day long.

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Last edited by hh4whiskey; 06/03/21.
Re: Tss shells [Re: FWP] #16141222 06/04/21
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Originally Posted by FWP

Besides the smaller gages many guys mentioned the extreme range of TSS as one of the main reason they are shooting it.


It's all just a fantasy....given time most will wake up.

IC-A

Re: Tss shells [Re: FWP] #16141462 06/04/21
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Besides the smaller gages many guys mentioned the extreme range of TSS as one of the main reason they are shooting it.

Not my idea at all. Too much room for error and happenstance. If for some reason I needed more range, I’d simply use what Jim Carmichael calls a “cleverly concocted rifle cartridge”, legal here Spring and Fall. Don’t see that need in the Spring, but there are times in the Fall when it could be handy. A head shot, or a wing-butt shot with a mild round or even a roundball will do; anything that won’t blow up the meat.


What fresh Hell is this?
Re: Tss shells [Re: LFC] #16141666 06/04/21
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Originally Posted by LFC
Originally Posted by FWP

Besides the smaller gages many guys mentioned the extreme range of TSS as one of the main reason they are shooting it.


It's all just a fantasy....given time most will wake up.



Its not fantasy. Its real and TSS is a game changer. My post was not to put down TSS but to show that for many of us that TSS is not always needed.

Re: Tss shells [Re: Pappy348] #16142291 06/04/21
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Originally Posted by Pappy348
Besides the smaller gages many guys mentioned the extreme range of TSS as one of the main reason they are shooting it.

Not my idea at all. Too much room for error and happenstance. If for some reason I needed more range, I’d simply use what Jim Carmichael calls a “cleverly concocted rifle cartridge”, legal here Spring and Fall. Don’t see that need in the Spring, but there are times in the Fall when it could be handy. A head shot, or a wing-butt shot with a mild round or even a roundball will do; anything that won’t blow up the meat.


I’m told my great grandfather had a saying, “Half a turkey is better than no turkey”. Back then birds were less plentiful. I’m not for ruining meat, but I guess he had a point…..grin

Re: Tss shells [Re: Kenneth] #16142513 06/04/21
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The only fantasy is from those who haven’t shot TSS on game or the patterning board. Same chokes hold better patterns to at least 20 yards further than lead or steel. #8s and #9s kill game better than lead 4s/6s. While I’ve shot some ducks and geese with it, and had no issues with tiny pellets in the meat, there’s that ‘paranoia’.....and it’s expensive for volume shooting, so I stick with other stuff. For turkeys, there’s been no issue at all....to around 45 yards, the patterns are so tight that most everything is in the head or neck, and what HAS hit the body, didn’t stop in the body....wound tracks through exit. I’ve picked FAR more #4/5/6 lead out of turkey breasts over the years, than #7/8/9 TSS over the last 7-8 years.

If it ain’t for you, it ain’t for you......but it’s not because it doesn’t do what it’s billed for, in spades.

Re: Tss shells [Re: LFC] #16146811 06/06/21
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Originally Posted by LFC
This came straight from Apex Ammo facebook site when I asked about pellet weight.

My question to Apex.

"I hear all the claims....lets hear the facts. What's the actual weight of a TSS size 9 or 10 pellet ?"

Apex Ammunition's reply to me...Quote

"9's weigh 1.2grs. 9.5's weigh 1gr.

9's are the perfect TSS pellet size. More energy than lead 4's and equal energy to hevi shot 5's."

My reply to Apex...

"A lead #4 pellet weighs 3.30 grains....a lead #7 shot weighs 1.50 grains....both substantially more weight than the smaller TSS pellet. Energy is figured by computing weight and velocity. There is no way a #9 TSS pellet weighing a third of a #4 lead can have more energy than a lead #4 shot moving at the same velocity.....fact is a lead #7 has more energy than a TSS #9 size shot moving at equal velocity."

TSS only exists with companies like Federal because they can't make a lead shell that will out shoot a Winchester's Longbeard Ammo with "Shot Lock" technology.




In case you.missed the facts

IC-B

Re: Tss shells [Re: LFC] #16147312 06/06/21
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If you want to hang your hat on per pellet energy, go right ahead. I’ll stick with 10-14 head and neck hits at as far as I care to shoot for my facts, proven repeatedly on the pattern board.


What fresh Hell is this?
Re: Tss shells [Re: Kenneth] #16147451 06/06/21
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just glad the 40 or so birds I have killed with TSS, can't read this thread or they have gotten up and walk out of my freezer......


I may not be smart but I can lift heavy objects

I have a shotgun so I have no need for a 30-06.....
Re: Tss shells [Re: LFC] #16149529 06/07/21
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Originally Posted by LFC
Originally Posted by LFC
This came straight from Apex Ammo facebook site when I asked about pellet weight.

My question to Apex.

"I hear all the claims....lets hear the facts. What's the actual weight of a TSS size 9 or 10 pellet ?"

Apex Ammunition's reply to me...Quote

"9's weigh 1.2grs. 9.5's weigh 1gr.

9's are the perfect TSS pellet size. More energy than lead 4's and equal energy to hevi shot 5's."

My reply to Apex...

"A lead #4 pellet weighs 3.30 grains....a lead #7 shot weighs 1.50 grains....both substantially more weight than the smaller TSS pellet. Energy is figured by computing weight and velocity. There is no way a #9 TSS pellet weighing a third of a #4 lead can have more energy than a lead #4 shot moving at the same velocity.....fact is a lead #7 has more energy than a TSS #9 size shot moving at equal velocity."

TSS only exists with companies like Federal because they can't make a lead shell that will out shoot a Winchester's Longbeard Ammo with "Shot Lock" technology.




In case you.missed the facts


LOL….I think there’s only the one fact there, which happens to be the most irrelevant: muzzle energy.

Here’s some other facts: (when all else is equal)
— #9 TSS maintains velocity far better than almost any lead, much less #4s

—#9TSS penetrates FAR better at any range

—#9TSS has soo much more pattern density at any range, it’s almost silly to compare…..likely a MINIMUM of 4-5x more lethal strikes than any comparable #4 lead pattern possible.

—-(if energy ‘really matters’) #9 TSS is capable of putting far more energy into the head/neck of a turkey at almost any range, as #4 lead.



If you’re gonna shoot 10/12ga stuff to under 40 yards, then you can kill birds without TSS. If you’re just gonna shoot under 30 yards with smaller gauges, you can kill birds without it. In either case, you will definitely kill birds with TSS to any range a 10/12ga lead load ever will, with a smaller gauge and less payload.

Re: Tss shells [Re: Kenneth] #16149893 06/07/21
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How could aTSS #9 weighing 3 times less than a Copper plated lead #4 retain velosity farther than the heavier superior manly sized pellet a #4 lead...

That theory goes against the laws of physics....


Re: Tss shells [Re: Kenneth] #16150008 06/07/21
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There’s this thing called bc. They spend some time on it around here. It applies to any shape, and density/mass figures in. In lieu if that, I’d posit that you could try launching a basketball and a golf ball at the same velocities, and get back to us. wink

Maybe revisit those ‘laws’ of physics, as well. wink

Last edited by hh4whiskey; 06/07/21.
Re: Tss shells [Re: LFC] #16150457 06/07/21
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Originally Posted by LFC
How could aTSS #9 weighing 3 times less than a Copper plated lead #4 retain velosity farther than the heavier superior manly sized pellet a #4 lead...

That theory goes against the laws of physics....




https://www.super18tungstenshot.com/blogs/education/what-makes-tss-so-effective


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Re: Tss shells [Re: battue] #16151925 06/07/21
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Quote from.your article

" If two pellets weigh the same, but one is smaller, the smaller one will penetrate deeper because the energy is focused on a smaller surface area on contact and is not dissipated over as wide an area."

They dont weigh the same....

A #4 lead pellet weighs almost 3 times as much as a #9 TSS pellet......a #7 lead weighs more than a TSS #9.

Here's the main trouble with TSS....the x'spurts dont want to talk about weight and velosity all they want to talk about is density, density and more density....when pushed they fall back on CC's, CC's and more CC's.

Truth is they know the average jOe doesnt have enough sense to see through the sharade.

Were not shooting iron plated turkeys....penetration is not that big a deal.

Wound channel size, projectile weight, velosity and energy transfer does make a difference when hunting.


Re: Tss shells [Re: hh4whiskey] #16151943 06/07/21
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Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
There’s this thing called bc. They spend some time on it around here. It applies to any shape, and density/mass figures in. In lieu if that, I’d posit that you could try launching a basketball and a golf ball at the same velocities, and get back to us. wink

Maybe revisit those ‘laws’ of physics, as well. wink

There is a thing called BC....and I dont think it makes much difference at the short ranges we shoot turkeys with a shotgun.

Basketballs and golf balls is a silly comparison

Re: Tss shells [Re: LFC] #16152208 06/08/21
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Originally Posted by LFC
Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
There’s this thing called bc. They spend some time on it around here. It applies to any shape, and density/mass figures in. In lieu if that, I’d posit that you could try launching a basketball and a golf ball at the same velocities, and get back to us. wink

Maybe revisit those ‘laws’ of physics, as well. wink

There is a thing called BC....and I dont think it makes much difference at the short ranges we shoot turkeys with a shotgun.

Basketballs and golf balls is a silly comparison


Bless your heart.

Re: Tss shells [Re: Kenneth] #16152250 06/08/21
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Multiple ballistic "x'sperts" have came to the same conclusions, Yet you have answers they missed???? And the major shotshell manufacturers are bullshiiiting all the average Joe's and you are the only smart one out there. Got it...

Ever wonder why needles for medication injection are small? In case you haven't it has to do with penetration. Ever wonder why they are hard and dense-dense again-and not soft and spoonge? Penetration again perhaps????

They we get into increased energy transfer due to more multiple hits... because of the greater number of number 9 TSS vs your lead 4's or 5's. The X'sperts call that pattern density and they say pattern density is a big deal..But hey, they are only "X'sperts."

Less shot deformity with the more dense--there is that word again-and hard TSS vs lead..Less deformity in flight and less deformity on impact means they pattern and penetrate better..Think about that needle example again. Perhaps you wouldn't mind getting your shot with a bent needle?

Also what is another big advantage of TSS shot.?...One that you haven't addressed, but the "X'perts" have. You have the answers, so I'll let you dwell on it for spell before you clue us in on their mistake.

I'm just an average Joe, but I think those ballistics "X'sperts" are onto something. Along with the average Joe's who are seeing the results of their X'pertese on game using TSS...As they say..."Funny how that works."

Addition: To quote you "All they want to talk about is Density, density, density." Well steel is less dense than lead, and what did they have to do with steel shot to make up for it? TSS is more dense than lead, so what would lead have to do to make up for it? Physics perhaps????

To make it easy...As density increases, shot size can decrease with close to the same penetration result. As shot size per ounce decreases, shot number per ounce increases, and you will hit the object with more shot. More shot means greater pattern density. More pattern density means greater lethality. And you can do it with a smaller gauge...Again, as they say..."Hint"

Last edited by battue; 06/08/21.

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