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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11 |
An old Weaver may have been mechanically tougher than the subject scope, the modern Leupold. I wouldn't doubt it, but that doesn't change the fact that the line "the scope is used to kill game, so therefore it must work correctly" is simply a straw-man argument. I watched him check zero on that rifle last fall. It was shooting about an inch to the left and put 3 shots in about a 1 1/4" group at 100. Not bad after falling 18 feet. Agreed. I was addressing the EK and JOC comment. EK and JOC's scopes obviously worked well enough. Which is why I brought up the standards to which we hold our scopes. If EK's and JOC's scopes shifted an MOA or two from one season to the next, I doubt they'd notice or care. With today's manufacturing technology, the precision of today's rifles, laser RFs, quality bullets and other components, etc., most serious shooters hold their scopes to a much higher standard than could be reasonably expected 50-70 years ago. The ability to hit a 4 MOA target and kill game is not good enough for many of us. These days, there's no excuse for a scope company to make scopes that don't adjust and hold zero properly. I doubt most hunters around here would sweat a 1" shift.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,873 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,873 Likes: 5 |
I have two 2.5-8x36 Leupolds and they have been solid. The younger one is 36 years old.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,534 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,534 Likes: 3 |
I wonder if some who consider me a Leupold hater actually have and use fewer Leupold scopes than I do. Yeah, I'm no hater. I've just experienced enough Leupold failures that I won't use them until I'm darn sure that things have changed. The old adage comes to mind: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11 |
An old Weaver may have been mechanically tougher than the subject scope, the modern Leupold. I wouldn't doubt it, but that doesn't change the fact that the line "the scope is used to kill game, so therefore it must work correctly" is simply a straw-man argument. I watched him check zero on that rifle last fall. It was shooting about an inch to the left and put 3 shots in about a 1 1/4" group at 100. Not bad after falling 18 feet. Agreed. I was addressing the EK and JOC comment. EK and JOC's scopes obviously worked well enough. Which is why I brought up the standards to which we hold our scopes. If EK's and JOC's scopes shifted an MOA or two from one season to the next, I doubt they'd notice or care. With today's manufacturing technology, the precision of today's rifles, laser RFs, quality bullets and other components, etc., most serious shooters hold their scopes to a much higher standard than could be reasonably expected 50-70 years ago. The ability to hit a 4 MOA target and kill game is not good enough for many of us. These days, there's no excuse for a scope company to make scopes that don't adjust and hold zero properly. I doubt most hunters around here would sweat a 1" POI shift. My buddy didn't even bother adjusting his scope last season after seeing it was shooting an inch to the left. That don't mean shyt in the woods where we kill our deer.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,831
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,831 |
Leupold was popular w groundhog hunters here, and by some pretty picky ones too.
Ive had decent luck w Leupold, hold zero fine. But I dont dial and have had my zero stay.
The issues Ive had were something funky from the factory, which they fixed or replaced ( 4 scopes since 1980 ) and the initial zero in. Varmint cartridges didnt offer enough recoil to make things stay on adj. The old wimp Leupold single spring vs the dual Burris I suspect.
Tapping turrets worked.
PITA
Around here 500 is a hell of a rip on chucks and most places under 300. So set and forget works for me.
Hard to go non Leupold when scoping a pretty rifle though.
Last edited by hookeye; 06/08/21.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11 |
I have two 2.5-8x36 Leupolds and they have been solid. The younger one is 36 years old. I have an old vari-x II that has never given me any trouble.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,534 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,534 Likes: 3 |
An old Weaver may have been mechanically tougher than the subject scope, the modern Leupold. I wouldn't doubt it, but that doesn't change the fact that the line "the scope is used to kill game, so therefore it must work correctly" is simply a straw-man argument. I watched him check zero on that rifle last fall. It was shooting about an inch to the left and put 3 shots in about a 1 1/4" group at 100. Not bad after falling 18 feet. Agreed. I was addressing the EK and JOC comment. EK and JOC's scopes obviously worked well enough. Which is why I brought up the standards to which we hold our scopes. If EK's and JOC's scopes shifted an MOA or two from one season to the next, I doubt they'd notice or care. With today's manufacturing technology, the precision of today's rifles, laser RFs, quality bullets and other components, etc., most serious shooters hold their scopes to a much higher standard than could be reasonably expected 50-70 years ago. The ability to hit a 4 MOA target and kill game is not good enough for many of us. These days, there's no excuse for a scope company to make scopes that don't adjust and hold zero properly. I doubt most hunters around here would sweat a 1" shift. And that's why many scope companies still get away with making scopes that aren't mechanically robust. Most guys don't know or care whether their scopes work properly or not, as long as they can hit a 12" vital zone at 100 yards. And even if they can't, they assume the problem is their shooting, not that the scope has Jello for an erector assembly.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11 |
An old Weaver may have been mechanically tougher than the subject scope, the modern Leupold. I wouldn't doubt it, but that doesn't change the fact that the line "the scope is used to kill game, so therefore it must work correctly" is simply a straw-man argument. I watched him check zero on that rifle last fall. It was shooting about an inch to the left and put 3 shots in about a 1 1/4" group at 100. Not bad after falling 18 feet. Agreed. I was addressing the EK and JOC comment. EK and JOC's scopes obviously worked well enough. Which is why I brought up the standards to which we hold our scopes. If EK's and JOC's scopes shifted an MOA or two from one season to the next, I doubt they'd notice or care. With today's manufacturing technology, the precision of today's rifles, laser RFs, quality bullets and other components, etc., most serious shooters hold their scopes to a much higher standard than could be reasonably expected 50-70 years ago. The ability to hit a 4 MOA target and kill game is not good enough for many of us. These days, there's no excuse for a scope company to make scopes that don't adjust and hold zero properly. I doubt most hunters around here would sweat a 1" shift. And that's why many scope companies still get away with making scopes that aren't mechanically robust. Most guys don't know or care whether their scopes work properly or not, as long as they can hit a 12" vital zone at 100 yards. And even if they can't, they assume the problem is their shooting, not that the scope has Jello for an erector assembly. I have several rifles that will shoot .5 - .75" 100 yard groups and have held zero for years. None of them wear SWFA or NightForce scopes. A couple even wear Leupolds. None of them go horseback but some do frequently ride in the rack on my ATV.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,534 Likes: 3 |
Which comes back full circle to the fact that there are scopes made for guys that demand aesthetics and light weight over tight mechanical tolerances and quality build, and there are scopes made for guys that demand more stringent mechanical function from their scopes. But don't try and blow smoke up my skirt by telling me that there's no mechanical difference between the two. 
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,534 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,534 Likes: 3 |
I have several rifles that will shoot .5 - .75" 100 yard groups and have held zero for years. None of them wear SWFA or NightForce scopes. A couple even wear Leupolds. None of them go horseback but some do frequently ride in the rack on my ATV.
If they do what you want, then carry on! Leupolds of yesteryear held zero better than recent offerings, IME.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,962 Likes: 4 |
I have several rifles that will shoot .5 - .75" 100 yard groups and have held zero for years. None of them wear SWFA or NightForce scopes. A couple even wear Leupolds. None of them go horseback but some do frequently ride in the rack on my ATV.
If they do what you want, then carry on! Leupolds of yesteryear held zero better than recent offerings, IME. How about brand new Leupold's that came out of the box with canted reticle?
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11 |
I have several rifles that will shoot .5 - .75" 100 yard groups and have held zero for years. None of them wear SWFA or NightForce scopes. A couple even wear Leupolds. None of them go horseback but some do frequently ride in the rack on my ATV.
If they do what you want, then carry on! Leupolds of yesteryear held zero better than recent offerings, IME. Why do you suppose that is ? You'd think somebody would take some scopes apart and see what has changed.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,831
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,831 |
I know varmint dudes that handload and quite a few run Leupold.
Theyre kinda picky about group size and holding zero.
Yeah a lot of weekend bambi slayers are not and may never notice some variability.
Last edited by hookeye; 06/08/21.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,582 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,582 Likes: 10 |
I have two 2.5-8x36 Leupolds and they have been solid. The younger one is 36 years old. I have an old vari-x II that has never given me any trouble. Joan, Your Imagination and Pretend are mechanically HILARIOUS,you "trend setter" you. Hint. Kudos for aligning Brokedicktitude with STUPIDITY. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,534 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,534 Likes: 3 |
I know varmint dudes that handload and quite a few run Leupold.
Theyre kinda picky about group size and holding zero.
Yeah a lot of weekend bambi slayers are not and may never notice some variability.
Some guys are content with fantastic warranty service. Others are unhappy if there's a failure in the first place.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,873 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,873 Likes: 5 |
I have two M8 6x42s that need a trip to the repair shop. They both developed rattles.
It was easy to tell when the last one went. I had it on an accurate 243 that really loves the 87 grain Vmax. When 300 yard silhouette "groups" went from pouring round after round into one paint splash on the head tab to barely being able to stay on the torso section it was clear something was amiss.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,265 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,265 Likes: 2 |
Until they shape up on the fixed power line, I won’t buy another.
WHO THE HECK DISCONTINUES A 4x ?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3 |
I've used and still own a few Leupolds , but my experience is the older models were a lot more reliable and robust than the newer versions. I used to be a big Leupold fanboy and now I have had my fill of tapping turrets at the range when sighting in to get them to do what they are supposed to do and taking 15 shots to sight in when I could do it in 3 or 4 with most other scopes I own...
I hear this same argument about other scopes- particularly Vortex... I can't count the number of times I have heard Vortex fanboys on facebook and on these hunting/shooting forums going on about how great their warranty is... well, there is only one way to find that out and a LOT of guys are apparently using their warranty... in case you haven't noticed, a lot of guys are also saying that about Leupolds these days except possibly for their $2000+ models , which most hunters either can't afford or don't want to take out in the field for fear of putting a scratch on one... Yeah, I know now somebody will pipe up about how they own 6 of the Leupold Vari X 6HD or some other Leupold offering that is $2500 and they haven't had a lick of trouble with it. Well, the same thing should be said of the lower offerings. I have much less issues with my Bushnell Elite scopes than I ever had with my Leupolds by a huge margin. I did bend a scope tube on one a couple years ago and sent it in and they made me a ridiculously low offer on replacing it with a new Bushnell but I had to come up with too much cash difference to make it worthwhile...
All I really want is a scope that adjusts the amount it is supposed to adjust every time you turn the turret- be it at the range setting zero or dialing a long range shot... and I don't really care if that is a Leupold scope or a SWFA or a Bushnell LHRS.... just make it work every time and I'll buy it.... the search continues but there are much better choices out there at the moment.... Maybe by some miracle Leupold execs will get their heads out of their asses and figure out how to make a reliable scope again and will have to hire a thousand people to make enough to meet supply- but I don't see that happening in my lifetime...
Bob
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,258 Likes: 11 |
Until they shape up on the fixed power line, I won’t buy another.
WHO THE HECK DISCONTINUES A 4x ? Everybody's a fuuckin sniper nowdays and wants a 5 pound telescope with big ass turrets to be cool. Nobody actually wants to hunt anymore. Just shoot shyt from a half mile away.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,753 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,753 Likes: 6 |
I wonder if some who consider me a Leupold hater actually have and use fewer Leupold scopes than I do. Yeah, I'm no hater. I've just experienced enough Leupold failures that I won't use them until I'm darn sure that things have changed. The old adage comes to mind: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." BC grizzly, black bear, elk and moose, Alberta black bear, African serval to Cape buffalo, US multiple elk, deer and hogs without an issue with hundreds down the bores. Awaiting a go for this years BC hunt moved from last year for goat, elk and moose, 16 days on horseback with my Remington M700 rebore 338-06 with the same 2.5-8x Vari-X III that worked in all of its previous hunts. No worries here.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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