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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?
Simple question. What say you?
mike r I say what the Bible teaches. Good works do not save a person. The Bible teaches salvation is through Christ. It is a free gift, but you must accept Him and worship Him. I accept and worship Christ with all my heart. I hope you will too. I find the idea that there is today an integrated Christian " faith and church", which is God's faith and church in the same way there was a true and integrated Christian faith (and church) at the time of Christ, to be quite laughable. At the time of Christ, there was obviously only one church, one faith---one accepted canon of doctrine. Moreover, false doctrines were continually creeping in which the Apostles had to fight against. After the last Apostle died, it all went sideways. In fact, doesn't the Bible teach there will be "prophets and apostles" until we all come to a unity of the faith? Where are the apostles and prophets today when there is such obvious disunity? In fact, almost the whole of Christianity denies even the possibility of revelation post-Bible. There are now over 1500 "Christian churches" and they all teach something different about doctrines allegedly essential for salvation. They actually agree on very little. That emphatically was not the situation at the time of Christ. Moroever, in Christ's time the church had a recognized hierarchy and structure. You didn't get to just go out and start your own religion; you had to be called in the manner Aaron was called. (See Hebrews, I think). Also, where in heck do these modern "Christian" ministers get their authority? From the Bible? That's not how Christ conveyed his authority anciently. For starters, there was no Bible to read! Secondluy, apostles and disciples got their authority by laying on of hands from one who himself had authority received by laying on of hand by another, who had authority. The Catholics have the better of the argument here because they at least claim a direct lineage for authority from Peter. The problem is, their core doctrines are wholly apostate. It seems pretty clear to me that God predicted this (an apostasy, see eg., the Parable of the Son and the Husbandmen). The other thing that is just positively risible (to me at least) is this notion that the "Bible", which was collected and written by Catholic priests with the earliest Greek manuscripts coming into existence hundreds of years after Christ, is somehow the infallible word of God when it is full of contradictions and ambiguities that actually make dissent and divisions likely. You have to be willfully ignorant to believe that. These scrivener priests (who, at the time they collected and transcribed) were themselves members of an arguably apostate church with all kinds of bizarre, non-Biblical doctrines (eg., infant baptism and baptism by "sprinkling") arbitrarily decided which "scriptures" to include in the canon and which not to. Who gave them the authority to do that? Certainly not God. Modern Christianity today has little or no resemblance to its ancient version. The idea that what we see today is a continuation of God's church and doctrine is utterly ridiculous wishful thinking, in my opinion. Yet there is no shortage of bigots who want to denounce Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists and JWs, when the claims of the bigots are no more authoritative than those they mock. Be all that as it may or may not be, you got your women confused, I believe.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If Antlers were the spokesman for the "christians" on here you all would be well represented.
mike r
Word 🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1 |
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?
Simple question. What say you?
mike r Depends. Do you or don’t you believe him when he said: “I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”. Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that. According to what is written, So a pedophile can go to heaven by accepting Christ 30 seconds before he dies, but a good man who lives a life mirroring Christ’s teachings but never “accepts” Christ as the son of God, burns for eternity? Seriously?! Read it for yourself, Jack. You consider yourself as a judge of others? I’ve read it, more times than I care to remember. You good with hanging with Hitler for eternity if he accepted Christ right before he pulled the trigger on that Luger in the bunker? As far as judging others? Yeah… if some pos is fuggin kids I tend to judge them. As a matter of fact, I’d be fine being judge, jury and executioner for them.
Last edited by jackmountain; 06/13/21.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Not LDS here, but I have the utmost respect for every one of them I have got to know. I was broke down up in the Utah mountains, they towed my truck 37 miles with a chain to someone that would open their repair shop and fix my vehicle, stayed with me till the job was done. They would not take one penny.
I knew a lot of LDS when I lived in Az, rode horses and hunted with a lot of them.
They deserve better than to be made fun of.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
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People are brought to Christ not through persuasive words or silver tongues. People are brought to Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. Did Jesus bring people to Himself “through persuasive words or silver tongues”...? People who were nothing like Jesus liked Jesus. They were attracted to Him. People who are nothing like Christians should like Christians as well. But they often don’t. They are often repelled by them. Understandably. There are some Christians who seem to pride themselves in being disliked and they even use that as a guage of how effectively they are ‘living for Jesus’ and ‘spreading the Gospel’ in the world.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1 |
If Antlers were the spokesman for the "christians" on here you all would be well represented.
mike r
Word 🦫 Undoubtedly. I grew up in a church where the (highly respected) youth minister got caught banging strange while his wife died of cancer, preacher got nailed banging a woman he was giving “marital counseling “ and head deacon was caught having an affair. Real eye opener to an 18yo.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
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These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?
Simple question. What say you?
mike r Depends. Do you or don’t you believe him when he said: “I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”. Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that. According to what is written, So a pedophile can go to heaven by accepting Christ 30 seconds before he dies, but a good man who lives a life mirroring Christ’s teachings but never “accepts” Christ as the son of God, burns for eternity? Seriously?! Read it for yourself, Jack. You consider yourself as a judge of others? I’ve read it, more times than I care to remember. You good with hanging with Hitler for eternity if he accepted Christ right before he pulled the trigger on that Luger in the bunker? As you’ve read it more times than you care to remember what do you believe? I’m not good with “hanging with” anybody . Period. We will each and individually stand accountable for our deeds of commissions and omissions AND for our beliefs. He and only He will judge for the eternities, not you, not me, not any other human.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1 |
Not LDS here, but I have the utmost respect for every one of them I have got to know. I was broke down up in the Utah mountains, they towed my truck 37 miles with a chain to someone that would open their repair shop and fix my vehicle, stayed with me till the job was done. They would not take one penny.
I knew a lot of LDS when I lived in Az, rode horses and hunted with a lot of them.
They deserve better than to be made fun of.
Having exceptional character traits and above average work ethic doesn’t offset stupid beliefs.
Last edited by jackmountain; 06/13/21.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,933 Likes: 6 |
I bet there are (and are gonna be) a lot of surprised folks in hell!
Probably so. But no one will be surprised that they're in heaven.  You apparently have no idea how many of us would be extremely shocked to find ourselves in either. Some of us understand that when the electrons quit flowing inside the old cranium, all consciousness is lost.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
If Antlers were the spokesman for the "christians" on here you all would be well represented.
mike r
Word 🦫 Undoubtedly. I grew up in a church where the (highly respected) youth minister got caught banging strange while his wife died of cancer, preacher got nailed banging a woman he was giving “marital counseling “ and head deacon was caught having an affair. Real eye opener to an 18yo. Cooter is some powerful stuff.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1 |
I bet there are (and are gonna be) a lot of surprised folks in hell!
Probably so. But no one will be surprised that they're in heaven. You apparently have no idea how many of us would be extremely shocked to find ourselves in either. Some of us understand that when the electrons quit flowing inside the old cranium, all consciousness is lost. Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I agree. My beliefs align closer to the Buddhists. Life is suffering. The cause of suffering is giving a fugg what others think of you. Quit giving a fugg what others think of you and you’ll find happiness.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
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I bet there are (and are gonna be) a lot of surprised folks in hell!
Probably so. But no one will be surprised that they're in heaven. You apparently have no idea how many of us would be extremely shocked to find ourselves in either. Some of us understand that when the electrons quit flowing inside the old cranium, all consciousness is lost. Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I agree. My beliefs align closer to the Buddhists. Life is suffering. The cause of suffering is giving a fugg what others think of you. Quit giving a fugg what others think of you and you’ll find happiness. Amen 🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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I bet there are (and are gonna be) a lot of surprised folks in hell!
Probably so. But no one will be surprised that they're in heaven. You apparently have no idea how many of us would be extremely shocked to find ourselves in either. Some of us understand that when the electrons quit flowing inside the old cranium, all consciousness is lost. Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I agree. My beliefs align closer to the Buddhists. Life is suffering. The cause of suffering is giving a fugg what others think of you. Quit giving a fugg what others think of you and you’ll find happiness. Suffering can be caused from a lot more than that.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506 |
I bet there are (and are gonna be) a lot of surprised folks in hell!
Probably so. But no one will be surprised that they're in heaven. You apparently have no idea how many of us would be extremely shocked to find ourselves in either. Some of us understand that when the electrons quit flowing inside the old cranium, all consciousness is lost. Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I agree. My beliefs align closer to the Buddhists. Life is suffering. The cause of suffering is giving a fugg what others think of you. Quit giving a fugg what others think of you and you’ll find happiness. Suffering can be caused from a lot more than that. Marriage, kids, dog bites and a million other things. Caring about what other people think, would be exhausting. Fug it...Just be kind to people who deserve kindness. The rest, kick their ass and roll 🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,907 Likes: 11 |
Fug it...Just be kind to people who deserve kindness. The rest, kick their ass and roll
🦫
#yep
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
I bet there are (and are gonna be) a lot of surprised folks in hell!
Probably so. But no one will be surprised that they're in heaven. You apparently have no idea how many of us would be extremely shocked to find ourselves in either. Some of us understand that when the electrons quit flowing inside the old cranium, all consciousness is lost. Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I agree. My beliefs align closer to the Buddhists. Life is suffering. The cause of suffering is giving a fugg what others think of you. Quit giving a fugg what others think of you and you’ll find happiness. Suffering can be caused from a lot more than that. Marriage, kids, dog bites and a million other things. Caring about what other people think, would be exhausting. Fug it...Just be kind to people who deserve kindness. The rest, kick their ass and roll 🦫 I don’t give a f’k what you think. Damn, Brother Beav! I’m a Jewish Buddhist!
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,219 Likes: 19 |
Not LDS here, but I have the utmost respect for every one of them I have got to know. I was broke down up in the Utah mountains, they towed my truck 37 miles with a chain to someone that would open their repair shop and fix my vehicle, stayed with me till the job was done. They would not take one penny.
I knew a lot of LDS when I lived in Az, rode horses and hunted with a lot of them.
They deserve better than to be made fun of.
Like most other folks of any flavor, creed, color, Nationality, there's good and bad. I was screwed by a Mormon owned car dealership on some repairs when I lived in AZ. Hard to say it was just business when, at the time in about 2001, I was told directly by them they were charged $225 for a clutch kit by their jobber, and normal markup was to double that. Which is why they wanted to charge me $450. And I wasn't told this over the phone, I was sitting across from them at a table in their conference room. And not only were the parts and service managers there, but the general manager who's family name was on the BIG sign outside. I found it interesting, in that I called a local parts dealer and retail cost to me was less than that, and I called two other dealerships, same brand, and was told I could come in and get one from their parts department for $185 at the most expensive. I told them they got screwed if they were charged $225 for parts I could get retail from two dealers for less than their cost from a wholesaler and that they might want to find another supplier. Basically, I told them they were lying right to my face. I won't mention the name, it's well known in the area and perhaps they have repented. I never looked at it as "Mormons are evil".................just that particular business and the family that runs it.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506 |
I bet there are (and are gonna be) a lot of surprised folks in hell!
Probably so. But no one will be surprised that they're in heaven. You apparently have no idea how many of us would be extremely shocked to find ourselves in either. Some of us understand that when the electrons quit flowing inside the old cranium, all consciousness is lost. Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I agree. My beliefs align closer to the Buddhists. Life is suffering. The cause of suffering is giving a fugg what others think of you. Quit giving a fugg what others think of you and you’ll find happiness. Suffering can be caused from a lot more than that. Marriage, kids, dog bites and a million other things. Caring about what other people think, would be exhausting. Fug it...Just be kind to people who deserve kindness. The rest, kick their ass and roll 🦫 I don’t give a f’k what you think. Damn, Brother Beav! I’m a Jewish Buddhist! Laffin...😂🦫 Wait...Toot, you’re a Jew, like Remsen Jew ? And a Buddhist ? Very cool !
Last edited by Beaver10; 06/13/21.
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1 |
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?
Simple question. What say you?
mike r Depends. Do you or don’t you believe him when he said: “I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”. Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that. According to what is written, So a pedophile can go to heaven by accepting Christ 30 seconds before he dies, but a good man who lives a life mirroring Christ’s teachings but never “accepts” Christ as the son of God, burns for eternity? Seriously?! Read it for yourself, Jack. You consider yourself as a judge of others? I’ve read it, more times than I care to remember. You good with hanging with Hitler for eternity if he accepted Christ right before he pulled the trigger on that Luger in the bunker? As you’ve read it more times than you care to remember what do you believe? I’m not good with “hanging with” anybody . Period. We will each and individually stand accountable for our deeds of commissions and omissions AND for our beliefs. He and only He will judge for the eternities, not you, not me, not any other human. I believe my destiny is in my hands. If the Christian God stands by and allows children to be tortured and raped, men and women to be slaughtered, mass genocide etc… then we’re on the same page.
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