The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
Sadly some non members feel like we ostracize them. This is against our teachings if this happens. Our teachings teach people to fellowship and help all. I think it happens because nearly everyone you live around knows each other and sees each other at least weekly. Of course you act differently to those you know verses don’t know. I think that is what non members see and it’s not intentional.
That's probably the truth. It's also the truth that a co-worker's high school senior, a starter as a sophomore and junior, was benched by the new mormon coach in favor of a "promising" freshman who happened to be mormon. There's the official line, and there's the real world. I would NEVER have raised my kids in a predominantly mormon community. They would have been ostracized, if not by intent, by reality.
Like other people, there's good and bad LDS members. And like any other group of people, they can get very clannish, even mob like.
Funny story. First time I came into the town of Grace, ID, my FIL and I went to town for lunch, sat down in the little local restaurant, and when the (young) waitress came to bring the menu, we ordered a cup of coffee. Without missing a beat, she said "the smoking section is on the other side". For many behind the Zion curtain, the world is black and white. Either you're LDS, and OK, or you're assumed to be a coffee guzzling, smoking, boozing womanizer that kicks the dog, tortures the cat and hates kids, his mother, and apple pie........
People aren't wired to see shades of gray. Either you're with us, or you're against us. Friend or stranger. Black or white. Republican or Democrat. When one group gets to be dominant, that tendency tends to have ugly repercussions for the minority.
. I am sorry you feel that way. I can see how kids would feel left out. In my neighborhood this happens when some kids go to a charter school and most others go to regular school. The public regular school kids see each other every day, The charter school kids don’t integrate as well with the others on church activities.
Our teachings say to love all and help others. If you come across an lds person who you feel is treating you the opposite that is against our own teachings.
I do have a bias I will admit to. I don’t want my kids to marry non members. But that is really because marriage is hard enough and mixing cultures is just even harder. I think the closer culture your spouse is the better chance your marriage has.
Burley, I am sure there is more to your story. Probably interesting. Your decision will impact generations. Love that part of Idaho, it’s like going back in time 20 years.,
I can’t see where we’re disagreeing. To me Members are just regular people, like any others. If they have good hearts, that’ll come out. If they are crooks, the Church isn’t going to stop it.
Nevertheless, the way the church is organized impacts non-members of the community, and I find that members are, perhaps willfully, blind to those impacts.
Heaven is on earth. Live like there’s no tomorrow because when you die, it’s over. Lights out. Just like that dead squirrel in the road ran over by a dump truck. Nothing else.
Some day we'll see, won't we?
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
I told my bud about this movie. He’s pretty devout Mormon. Me not so much I’m pretty opened minded. I told him the church changed the narrative on how ol Joe Smith found the gold templates. When ol boy said he found the original writings. Yes it involved a salamander lol. But the church for a short time changed the narrative that a salamander lead ol Joe Smith to them. My bud got pretty upset about it and at me lol.. so yeah this is something die hard Mormons are not watching. It will make them question the church.
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Sadly some non members feel like we ostracize them. This is against our teachings if this happens. Our teachings teach people to fellowship and help all. I think it happens because nearly everyone you live around knows each other and sees each other at least weekly. Of course you act differently to those you know verses don’t know. I think that is what non members see and it’s not intentional.
That's probably the truth. It's also the truth that a co-worker's high school senior, a starter as a sophomore and junior, was benched by the new mormon coach in favor of a "promising" freshman who happened to be mormon. There's the official line, and there's the real world. I would NEVER have raised my kids in a predominantly mormon community. They would have been ostracized, if not by intent, by reality.
Like other people, there's good and bad LDS members. And like any other group of people, they can get very clannish, even mob like.
Funny story. First time I came into the town of Grace, ID, my FIL and I went to town for lunch, sat down in the little local restaurant, and when the (young) waitress came to bring the menu, we ordered a cup of coffee. Without missing a beat, she said "the smoking section is on the other side". For many behind the Zion curtain, the world is black and white. Either you're LDS, and OK, or you're assumed to be a coffee guzzling, smoking, boozing womanizer that kicks the dog, tortures the cat and hates kids, his mother, and apple pie........
People aren't wired to see shades of gray. Either you're with us, or you're against us. Friend or stranger. Black or white. Republican or Democrat. When one group gets to be dominant, that tendency tends to have ugly repercussions for the minority.
. I am sorry you feel that way. I can see how kids would feel left out. In my neighborhood this happens when some kids go to a charter school and most others go to regular school. The public regular school kids see each other every day, The charter school kids don’t integrate as well with the others on church activities.
Our teachings say to love all and help others. If you come across an lds person who you feel is treating you the opposite that is against our own teachings.
I do have a bias I will admit to. I don’t want my kids to marry non members. But that is really because marriage is hard enough and mixing cultures is just even harder. I think the closer culture your spouse is the better chance your marriage has.
Burley, I am sure there is more to your story. Probably interesting. Your decision will impact generations. Love that part of Idaho, it’s like going back in time 20 years.,
I can’t see where we’re disagreeing. To me Members are just regular people, like any others. If they have good hearts, that’ll come out. If they are crooks, the Church isn’t going to stop it.
Nevertheless, the way the church is organized impacts non-members of the community, and I find that members are, perhaps willfully, blind to those impacts.
I can't say personally as I never lived down South, but folks I've known that did have told me they experienced similar in smaller towns with members of the predominant denomination there. Keeping it all in the family so to speak. Outsiders only marginally welcome, unless it impacts their Church's members, then they're not welcome at all.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
This whole exclusion thing on non-members being excluded from members that seems to be predominantly a Idaho and Utah Mormon thing up here in Alaska I have friends their daughters go to church functions, go to young women’s functions all that. They are not pressured to join the church they ask if they want to be taught lessons and let them know and they will come over and teach some lessons but far as being pressured to join the church that I have yet to see that as well. They are included with open arms into church activities not excluded so again that’s just an Idaho Utah Mormon thing not anywhere else far as Mormons go far as I know especially up here in Alaska. My daughter went to Idaho State for two years in Pocatello and she was ostracized more by nonmembers from when they found out she was a member of the church so don’t give me that chit that members are ostracizing nonmembers. My daughter when she was in middle school lost a real good friend when her parents found out my daughter was a Mormon they wouldn’t allow her their daughter to hang out with her anymore but good ph ucking riddance they were from the south anyways I think Louisiana
Last edited by 79S; 06/14/21.
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Heaven is on earth. Live like there’s no tomorrow because when you die, it’s over. Lights out. Just like that dead squirrel in the road ran over by a dump truck. Nothing else.
I can't say personally as I never lived down South, but folks I've known that did have told me they experienced similar in smaller towns with members of the predominant denomination there. Keeping it all in the family so to speak. Outsiders only marginally welcome, unless it impacts their Church's members, then they're not welcome at all.
Same/same in my opinion (now the holy wrath from the Southern Baptists will rain upon us ;-) ). I’ve experienced it living in Texas, but also in small towns in Europe. It’s something we used to train exchange students to be aware of.
Heaven is on earth. Live like there’s no tomorrow because when you die, it’s over. Lights out. Just like that dead squirrel in the road ran over by a dump truck. Nothing else.
Some day we'll see, won't we?
If I’m wrong it’s going to be bad.
You are correct. If we’re wrong, you can have a good laugh at our expense. Something to consider.
I told my bud about this movie. He’s pretty devout Mormon. Me not so much I’m pretty opened minded. I told him the church changed the narrative on how ol Joe Smith found the gold templates. When ol boy said he found the original writings. Yes it involved a salamander lol. But the church for a short time changed the narrative that a salamander lead ol Joe Smith to them. My bud got pretty upset about it and at me lol.. so yeah this is something die hard Mormons are not watching. It will make them question the church.
I’ve no idea on how accurate the show is, and wouldn’t make any judgement based on it, but it was mildly fascinating.
I told my bud about this movie. He’s pretty devout Mormon. Me not so much I’m pretty opened minded. I told him the church changed the narrative on how ol Joe Smith found the gold templates. When ol boy said he found the original writings. Yes it involved a salamander lol. But the church for a short time changed the narrative that a salamander lead ol Joe Smith to them. My bud got pretty upset about it and at me lol.. so yeah this is something die hard Mormons are not watching. It will make them question the church.
I watched that and really enjoyed the show. I don't think the church ever changed the narrative to the salamander but a master forger tried to sell the church a fake letter he forged that a bogus salamander story in it. First he offered it to some prominent anti Mormons and then tried to get the church to buy it to keep out of the other guys hands. Some church historians said it looked like a real document from that time period. However the church declined to buy it but an individual church member later did for like $40,000. He tried to get it authenticated but it proved to be a forgery.
Mark Hoffmann, the forger, forged all kinds of documents. He claimed to be a church member but openly admitted he didn't believe in God and said his desire was to destroy the church from within. Churches just like political parties sometimes get evil people on the inside claiming to be one of them when their real goal is to destroy what they can from within. Think Mitt Romney and the Republican party. Unfortunately Mitt isn't the only douche bag in the LDS church.
We get some treacherous people sometimes trying to hide behind the faith. Especially in Utah and East Idaho because con men see it as a quick way to gain acceptance in a an area with a large LDS population. I've had the joy of seeing them excommunicate a few of them. I personally like the fact that are church will still do that when needed. I wish the Republicans would throw a few rhinos out.
Sorry to mix church and politics it's just for illustration and comparison for those who aren't church goers. I personally run from people if they try to use their religion to close a business deal. When a contractor starts talking church to me I pretty much assume he's out to rip me off. Not just LDS either. My evangelical Christian framer that has scriptures on his tool trailer took me for a couple of grand a few years ago. If I'd have seen the trailer first I'd have hired someone else.
I can’t go back and read 25 pages. Have we knocked them off the pedestal yet or are they still the best of us?
Depends if you’re “cumminscowboy” Mormon or “burleyboy” Mormon. Burleyboy mormon seems good though.
You forgot 79S Mormon
I have no animosity toward the myriad of LDS reformed, fundamentalist, or whatever community. I've rubbed shoulders in schools and daily life for many years. I've treated those who told me they went to this or that church with the same consideration and respect as another unless they gave me good reason not to.
That which I take issue with is not the individuals, but the religious teachings. Knowing that a religious faith has either benefit or consequences, depending on what the Lord tells us, I strive to be in agreement with Him.
Even within denominations, there are many individuals with various views.
