Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Sir Hannay,
Welcome.
Do that PT and get well soon !
Fire when ready !

Here is a reminder to those who think it is funny that a perfectly safe .458 WM+ load might be excessive in a SAAMI .458 Lott
even when both the 2.5" and 2.8" brass cases are fired in the same rifle platform,
like in Sir Jerry's challenge to the Lottite,
using a Ruger No. 1 .458 Winchester Magnum (SAAMI chamber)
and a Ruger No. 1 .458 Lott (SAAMI chamber) :





"Throat Jump" is the distance from case mouth to where the leade has tapered down to .458" diameter in the lands, the start of bullet bearing with a .458-caliber bullet.

One may fix a .458 Lott by running that .458 Winchester Magnum reamer into it, with a stop at the belt.
Jack Lott would approve.
Unfortunately, he had passed on to The Happy Hunting Ground before Art Alphin designed the SAAMI .458 Lott.

Thanks for posting the pics Sir Ron, that old bruiser sitting on the stump with 600gr Woodleighs at the ready, these loads run 2150 fps, i have taken both to 2500 fps with H-4831 and Retumbo, recoil is horrendous, it broke the cams in two leupold 1.5-5 scopes, it is now an iron sight only rifle, got a nice ivory bead installed from NECG, it looks nice in low light and peering into brush, done the max loads to test stock bedding and oversize crossbolt installation, appears the stock is well protected from recoil, the loads at 2150 will do on any animal worldwide and much easier to shoot

That last pic is showing the blue robbed from that grip cap from many firm grips as i was torching the throat while it was a 416 Rigby, now a 505 Gibbs and nearing 60 years old, i can assure you i'll not torch the throat on a 505!

Will be nice to see your speeds and accuracy with all bullets loaded over 83gr AA-2460 Sir Ron, it may well end up being the "do all/end all" powder for my 458 WM+

Alrighty then, Sir Jerry.
Below are the ones that are getting tried with 83.0 grains of AA-2460 in Daisy the .458 Ruger No. 1 with 24" factory barrel.
The COLs and BOLs may be considered +/- 0.005" when they are shown as rounded to the nearest 1/100th inch.
All the brass cases used were selected for exactly 2.500" length, for recipe specifications.
The SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum has a chamber length of 2.520",
so I am happy to make trim-to-length 2.500", and maximum case length for .458 WM+ handloads is 2.505":











That last one is the safest one for any Lottites trying to shoot .458 WM+ ammo in a SAAMI .458 Lott chamber,
because they will not even be able to chamber the round.
The other four rounds might possibly fit into the chamber of a SAAMI .458 Lott, so the caution still applies:

Man that'll work Sir Ron, i've been pulled off this forum two days in a row, honey do's, gardening, yard work etc, etc, you know, the time of year, in honor of the Crusade of Truth for 458 WM+ and you graciously sending me a lifetime supply of 458 cal 450gr TSX bullets, i have selected the 458 WM+ and my little 303 British double rifle for my next trip up to the Limpopo for a 10 day Safari.

PH says the Red Hartebeest hang out in the open, and be prepared for a shot of up to 300 yards, 450gr TSX's leaving at 2418 fps from the 458 WM+ will easily handle that chore, cant wait to get started, the little double will be used on one of two close targets of opportunity.

Thought I'd add a bit of humour!

I'm leaving tomorrow morning at 2am for a Sambar hunt - and I'll have the .458 with me!

Will finally be trying out the 550gn Woodleighs to see how they go on game... but at just under 2100fps I think we all know what the outcome will be...

I know a Sambar deer isn't a buffalo but it'll have to do for now..

So hopefully by lunchtime tomorrow I'll have a field report for you!

Russ

Hope you busted one Russ, please keep us posted, i'm certain we wont have 550gr Woodleigh Weldcore recovered bullet pics to see weights and measures.

I didn't get the bigger bear but at least I got this one.
The Lott 67grs H4895/550gr Woodleigh dropped him in his tracks and made a fist size exit hole.
I shot him last evening after a third night in the blind.
Hunting spring black bear reminded me Jim Corbett waiting in his blind on a tree top for a man eating tiger.
This blind too was up on a tree-it was a beautiful and comfortable blind.

Something of an unstoppable force. Wackin a black bear with a 458.
I've done it . Very satisfying outcome. Instant collapse.
Good job 👍

Thanks!

Did you use handholds? If so what load and bullet?

swiftshot means "handloads" not "handholds," I'd guess, in his question to Sir Spruce.

Great varmint hunting by swiftshot, proving that the .458 does all, not too big for small varmints !
He took that one with a SAAMI .458 Lott that he handloaded to less than a starting load in the SAAMI .458 WM.

Here is a use of the photo from Sir Russ to illustrate the maximal SAAMI .458 WM load with Benchmark that he is using on Sambar,
with the same bullet swiftshot used on the varmint.
I call that versatile !



I found two boxes of Hornady Superformance 500-gr DGX Bonded .458 WM ammo at Knob Creek,
and one box of Winchester Super-X 510-gr RNSN .458 WM gathering dust at Biff's Gun World on Dixie Highway, Monday.
That is a heck of a way to collect Hornady and Winchester brass for the .458 WM, but one can never have too much of that.
But I have lots of Hornady .458 Lott brass to cut down to 2.500" if needed.
Lots of Winchester .375 H&H to blow out to .45-cal too.
Jack Lott did it for the 2.8" case, so it if that was shortened to 2.5" the necks would likely not be as thinned.
If I ever get really desperate I have plenty of R-P stuff too, in .375 H&H and .416 RM to neck up, blow out, and shorten to 2.5".
Federal cases too.
I am saving the Norma .458 WM brass for paper-patched bullets and duplexed BP.
Very interesting times we live in, due to the Chinese curse and the DALDED facilitators.

Sir Ron, headed out to the shop to finish loading the primed sticks of new old stock WW-Super brass with the 450gr TSX's and 83gr AA-2460, 2418 fps says Cape Buffalo at 5 yards and ANY plains game animal to a long 300, installed the old Talley steel bases and lever rings that hold the same 2.5-8 Leupold when the rifle was a 375 AI, the scope and mounting hardware have been fail-safe for hundreds of rounds, up to an including 270gr TSX's at 3100 fps.

Sir Jerry has been busy:









Nifty little double rifle, a .300 Flanged What ?
Nifty .458 WM+ also, that will be a better killer than anything of larger bore or with longer brass,
for many reasons.

Whewww, date night with little Wife, sorry Sir Ron, i forgot about that, many Thanks for posting the pics, the little double is an RB Rodda bar action, top lever, rebounding hammer rifle in 303 British, with 28" first year fluid steel barrels, water table says 215 grain max bullet 38 grain riflite powder, my guesstimation that 41gr Rl-15 under the 215 Woodleighs may equate to 38gr Rifllite is true as the bullets shoot to beautiful sight regulation at 2163 fps.

A great little rifle, it's position in the photo is absolutely correct as the 458 WM+ will indeed support all the little doubles shortcomings.

These two will accompany Wife and me on our next trip across the big salt pond, targets of opportunity and maybe even another Cape Buffalo should a fine example be found, Thanks again Sir.

I have a question for you
to have a better grip on the bullet could you use 458 lot brass and keep the over all length so it would fit in the magazine of your regular 458 rifle ?

Sir Jerry,
You better be wining and dining Her Ladyship as often as possible if she is inclined toward Africa.
I bet she shoots like Annie Oakley with that .303 British Rodda RB DR too.
Long live the Queen !

Here is the velocity check on your ammo (and a few other bullets) in a 24" factory Ruger No. 1 barrel.
83.0 grains of AA-2460 with all bullets.
Will chronograph 5 shots of each and some 500-gr DGS Hornady Superformance factory ammo as a control, and as the fouler.



Notice I changed the Woodleigh 480-gr HYDRO to 3.58" COL instead of 3.56".
Makes a nicer staircase of COLs.
The 480-gr DGX Bonded is a 100% LR with droptube filling, not compressed at 3.56" COL, 83.0 grains of AA-2460.
All the other loads with same charge are compressed after droptube filling.
All are crimped tight, locked in place until fired.

The 450-gr TSX with longest seating depth of 0.450" is most compressed,
and it should be seated gradually with several runs in and out of the seater die,
pushing the bullet down in steps so as to avoid bulging the case below the bullet.
The AA-2460 being all perfect little spherical grains can take to compression well.
Might even end up looking like AA-2230 with enough compression to flatten some of those perfect little spheres.

No. Brass that is 2.520" long will be headbutting the end of the SAAMI .458 WM chamber.
That is where the chamber chamfers down from .483" diameter (chamber minimum) at a 45-degree slant until the leade starts at .469" diameter
and continues the taper at a 0-degree, 29-minutes and 30-seconds until it blends into bore diameter.
Magic.
Maximum brass diameter at 2.500" length is allowed to be 0.481" diameter.

Cut off that .458 Lott brass to exactly 2.500" and let it grow to 2.505" before trimming to 2.500".
It will still have plenty of chamber room to stretch in length and expand in diameter
so as not to pinch the bullet and jack up pressures upon firing.

The SAAMI .458 Lott chamber is only 2.810" long for 2.800" brass length.
The SAAMI .458 WM chamber is a generous 2.520" long for 2.500" brass length.
Better keep that .458 Lott brass trimmed religiously.
Like I said, trim it to 2.500" and fire it in a SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum.
That is a lot safer practice.

Riflecrank

thank you always something to learn here......

OK, canuckistan, we still have seats at the Round Table.
What do you want to be called as a knight in the Crusade for Truth, Sir Canuck or what ?

And happy 4th of July to all ! I did my fireworks yesterday.
The Labradar is sweet !
The genius Son of a Gunsmith, who is himself a master machinist working on classified projects
(he would have to kill me if he told me what)
kindly operated his Labradar for me as I banged off 6 rounds of SAAMI .458 WM factory loads
and 25 rounds of handloads.
Very kind of that young man in contributing his valuable time to the Crusade.
I might have forgotten to aim sometimes in my desire to not tie him up too long,
but the Labradar data was spectacular.
I will give the MV results first.
I have the 100 yard velocities too, for all 31 shots, which may be used for BC estimates.
Turning the page now to give this momentous data a place at the top of a page ...