Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 7-08 Bullet for antelope

Mule Deer, why are you waiting for the wind to die down to try the 120-gr BT and TSX? Is it too stiff a breeze for the 140s, 154s, and 160s, too, or just the light stuff? Please elaborate.

FYI Hoss, I looked up some old match results in my files and found some 300 and 600 matches won in Pennsylvania with 7mm-08 and the 160-gr Sierra Gameking, back in the day before the 160~ match bullets.

I also found that Boots Obermeyer won the 1981 Wisconsin state match with a 7mm-08 firing the 160-gr Sierra Gameking for 788-34X, a record which stood until 1991. He also is listed winning some matches at 300 and 600 with a 7x57mm firing the same 160-gr Gamekings. I am sure there are lots more we'll never known about.

That's more intelligent than your normal post, DDP.
You must have gotten a lot of rest over the weekend.
But I asked Mule Deer. He can post for himself.

Yeah... I was trying to get to your level. Of course I'm not a pseudo-aerospace engineer/firearms designer/international businessman/Army trained sniper/long range match competitor/world trotting big game hunter like you... I just go out and ACTUALLY SHOOT STUFF. ~JT

Or shoot at stuff.

Have you shot the 120-gr bullets in the wind alongside the 154-gr SST or 160-gr Gameking?
Or do you just hold the Cabela's catalog to your forehead like Carnac the Marksman to "know" how they behave?

Yep... I have shot them both, have you? I even shot the 120 and 140 NBTs along side the 160 Accubond (which trumps both the GK and SST in BC) I really noticed little difference in wind drift one to another. The 120s recoiled the least, the 160s recoiled a bit much for my everyday shooting... and the 140 was the most accurate and did everything I'll ever need a bullet to do for 95% of my hunting needs. This was on the same day... in a decent 10MPH or so wind, from the same bench in the same gun. Shot groups all the way out to 300, which is as far as you can shoot at this particular range. Did the 160s drift a little less? Yeah... maybe an inch. But not enough to make me miss anything... and they were the least accurate at 300 yards with groups going in the 4-5" range.

Now, any other brain busters? The only Cabela's catalog in my house is in the guest bathroom... for good reason. Now... you can go back to shooting your AirSoft pistol untill your Mommy takes it away for shooting your little sister... I'll keep slapping real critters up side the shoulder with a real rifle... shooting real 7mm bullets. Class dismissed. ~JT

Gee, you should take your 120-gr bullets to a rifle match and break some of those records set with the 160-gr Gameking fired from 7mm-08 and 7x57 rifles.

In the meantime, tell us why you are so obnoxious in you advocacy of the 120-gr bullets? All I did was suggest that the original poster try the same bullets you claim to have tried (just now, for the first time), and you went.... well, ballistic. Not accurate, just ballistic.

My range goes to 600 meters, but we require guests to have good manners.

I made you an offer... I'll shoot 120s, you shoot 160 Game Kings... we'll see which one is easier to hit with. You chose not to accept... and.... ignore. ~JT

Go ahead, enter a 300 match with good wind and send us the results.

If you have actually shot these bullets, why don't you explain WHY you favor the 120-gr for hunting antelope, instead of posting stupid insults?

I HAVE SHOT THE BULLETS... READ MY EARLIER POST.
They shoot flatter, there's almost no difference in wind drift, and they're better built for anchoring sub-100 pound critters than 160 grain bullets. That was already stated... but you obviously read as well as you study ballistics. If you're having some troubles with your story-problems my wife is a math tutor... she could probably help you out, I'd hate to see you have to repeat the 5th grade.

Looks like about a six to one preference in favor of the 120BT over the other options, Cheesy. I was all set to go that route myself this season but I failed to draw a tag that I had an 80% chance of getting. Somebody has to be in the other 20% I guess!

We mechanical engineers use more math than most math majors ever saw, but you do have a new twist on your grade school insults.

Why are you unable address the original question with some facts, and without insults? If you feel ashamed of your vocation, don't try to insult mine. It only makes you look smaller each time.

I won't hold my breath for your match scores, or any pictures of comparative targets, or dead stuff at the hands of your 7mm One Hole Wonder.

Significant humor there...............

Wow................... Really???????????????????? You need a better rifle to shoot heavier bullets well? Seriously???????????????

Besides, isn't the point of extremely thin jacketed, lead filled match bullets to make them more mass concentric? I'm quite certain that all are manufactured with that goal in mind.



Yeah, because you see competitors skimping on the cheapest part of their sport all the time............ give or take.

You also generally see competitors going with an inferior product because they really don't need the edge that the best gives them....... Lee, are you for real, or have you just never met a single competitor?

You are too much.

Oh, the irony...................

Hello, Kettle, ......... this is Lee, ......... you're black............

I did address the facts... 1.5" at 400 yards. This is the FACT... and it is undisputed. I shot them... side by side... the 140 won out on accuracy alone (although I would shoot the 120 before the 160), wind drift (in a 10 mPH wind) was a non-factor. I think you're the one that needs to put in a call to Leg Warehouse... because you've got nothing to stand on! ~JT

The reason you need a really good bore and barrel to shoot a heavier bullet is that you have to spin a heavier bullet at a faster rate, unless you really reduce its muzzle exit speed, as many heavy (168 to 185 grain) target loads are for the M-14 (at 2,500 fps or less).

Someone who is seriously shooting long range is going to build a rifle with a bore and lands diameter specified, and a rate of twist, tailored to their intended bullet. A heavy bullet might need a 1:9.5 or 1:9 rate of twist.

The faster the bullet rotates (say 225,000 rpm for a hot 180-gr bullet vs 150,000 rpm for a semi-auto 168-gr load), every imperfection of balance increases quickly, as the rotational energy increases with the square of the speed of rotation. Likewise, any imperfections in the throat and bore are magnified with bullet speed and rotational speed.

The FACT is that match records were set with the 7mm-08 and 7x57 shooting the 160-gr Sierra Gameking before the newer generation of 7mm target bullets arrived after Remington upgraded the 7mm-08 from a wildcat to a commercial cartridge in the early 1980s. Those who denied that fact can accept the facts or not.

If the 120-gr bullets were superior for long range shooting, the target shooters would use them over the harder-kicking heavy bullets.

The other fact is that most hunters don't have the equipment nor the skills to tell much difference, so there really is no difference for them. The better the marksman and his rifle, the more important the right bullet and load become to him. On the other hand, he can outshoot the duffer with any of the mix.

Cheesy-
The advice you have received regarding the use of the Sierra 160 Gameking because of its ability to buck wind totally overlooks the fact that you cannot safely push it fast enough in a 7-08 for it to have enough velocity to reliably expand at 400 yards. (The range at which it begins to have a wind advantage). This goes for both the spitzer and hollow point Gameking, and is based on Sierra's minimum impact velocity data of 2000FPS and 2300FPS respectively.

On the other hand, the 120BT would still have enough velocity for reliable expansion beyond 500 yards.

Maybe you want to think twice before using a "proven target bullet at 600 yards" that would likely pencil through an antelope at 400......

Length dictates neccessary twist rate... not weight of projectile. I thought you were an engineer? Guess we've proved that's bull schitt too now huh?

We're not saying they're superior for 'long range match shooting'... but they are superior for work on 100 pound critters out to sane ranges in real world hunting situations (something you know absolutely nothing about).~JT

Castandblast,

Actually, the 160 GameKing (softpoint) will expand nicely on pronghorn at 400 yards when started at 7mm-08 muzzle velocities. I know this because I have seen it.

JB