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general purpose target bullet for 45/70 #16232462 07/07/21
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I recently purchased a C Sharps 1874 Sharps Hartford in 45/70. What is the general conscience of an all around bullet for general short to mid range target work. I plan to shoot black powder and cast bullets. Right now I have 535 grain but I think they are too heavy for the ranges that I plan to shoot at the present time.
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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16232557 07/07/21
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If you're going to cast your own, get a Lyman 457121PH mould and use nothing harder than a 20:1 alloy. Drops a 475gr bullet that is great for targets and hunting out as far as you're comfortable shooting.

Lee makes a mould for the hollow-base 405gr Calvary Carbine bullet, it's the 90268.

Some folks like the 330gr Gould's Bullet. It's a hollow point design. My Shiloh doesn't care for bullets that light so I stick with the 457121PH or heavier.

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16232612 07/07/21
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It is really hard to beat the Saeco 645 bullet cast from 20-1 for an all-round geaser in the 45-70. It should weigh somewhere close to 480 grains.
The big thing to keep in mind with an 18 twist rifle is that twist doesn't always play well with the 1.1 inch bullets.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16240698 07/10/21
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Thanks for the information. I will be purchasing the molds in the near future.

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16241773 07/10/21
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Rider,
That bullet also generates a lot more recoil.

IC-A

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16242006 07/10/21
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500 grain 1881 Saeco grease groove bullet, smaller nose to let you shoot/hunt dirty, less powder compression due to being a three lube groove bullet, still carries plenty of lube to keep fouling under control, accurate as hell and has done nothing but penetrate dead straight on several head of game from friends of mine and me to, in my 45 3-1/4 over 100 grains of Ole Eyensford 2F for 1488 fps it shot length ways though a 55 gal drum filled with water, it sucked the sides of the steel drum closed on exit, no animal could survive that, with 70gr Old Eyensford under it velocity will be 1300 fps, a very formidable load for the 45-70.

In the 45-70 cast with 20 or 30 to 1 alloy you'll shoot through any game animal in this country of Alaska, round nose bullets simply work.


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16275989 07/23/21
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Rider,

I always favored the Ideal now Lyman 457-121 PH. It was originally developed by Harry Pope and I shot it first in my 86 Winchester and on through the years. It's a little undersized for the .450-.458 bore groove but with 1/20 alloy it obturate well and for midrange accuracy it's hard to beat. It's a great hunting bullet with black powder loads that will let you shoot with out fouling control that a bore rider won't let you do.

I sent a print to Tom at accurate moulds to make a twin to the 121 that is proper for the .450/.458 bore groove and I have shot this bullet using my .45-70 and the .45-90 out to 1026 yards in Montana with some good breezes and hit the iron 8 out of 10 shots.

Here is the page at Accurate so you can see it.
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-467L

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16276378 07/23/21
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Kurt,

Did you have Tom cut yours at .458'? I'm thinking about an iron single-cavity for both my Shiloh 1874 45-70 and my custom .458 Win.

Thanks,

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16276521 07/23/21
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I tried a 385 RN mould but kept going back to the Lee 405 HB in my Trapdoors. I just liked the flat nose of the Lee better for hunting. Not much there so far as velocity to start with so I figure the flat nose will impart a little more energy to a deer. I think I still have the Rapine 385 and two of the Lees.

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16276654 07/23/21
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Ed,

The print I sent Tom was .458 and the mould came as the print at .458.
I don't know what happened with his print at .46

Here is a 5 shot target when I got the mould shot at 135 yards in my yard with a scoped .45-90.

Attached Files
IMG_3184.JPG (22.45 KB, 155 downloads)
IC-B

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: WStrayer] #16280041 07/24/21
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Originally Posted by WStrayer
I tried a 385 RN mould but kept going back to the Lee 405 HB in my Trapdoors. I just liked the flat nose of the Lee better for hunting. Not much there so far as velocity to start with so I figure the flat nose will impart a little more energy to a deer. I think I still have the Rapine 385 and two of the Lees.



Mr. Strayer,

That Lyman 457121-PH also has a flat nose, and, while not quite as large a flat nose as the 405 Gov bullet, it kills very, very well.

As a big believer in large meplats for striking effects, size does matter! grin

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: Kurt71] #16280043 07/24/21
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Originally Posted by Kurt71
Ed, The print I sent Tom was .458 and the mould came as the print at .458.
I don't know what happened with his print at .46
Here is a 5 shot target when I got the mould shot at 135 yards in my yard with a scoped .45-90.


Nice work!

I believe I'll have Tom carve one out for me, too.

Thanks,

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16280677 07/24/21
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If one wants to seriously reach out, then a slug in the 500+ grain league.


1Minute
Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16283172 07/25/21
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Still say the saeco 645 mould is about as good as it gets for a general use bullet in the 45-70. The bugger shoots well to 1000, and will shoot nice tight groups all the way back to 200 yards. 480 grs cast from 20-1. Probably wouldn't make a bad hunting bullet if one is into shooting grease groove bullets.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
www.historicshooting.com
Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16288234 07/27/21
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Don, some of us never got into smoking dope as kids because we couldn't handle rolling papers. So...it's greasers for us! grin

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: APDDSN0864] #16288665 07/27/21
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Never messed with that [bleep] either
But did a little with bull durham
But shooting patched is the best way to go
But if a person lacks two oposible thumbs then the 645 is the way to go in a 45-70 😀


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
www.historicshooting.com
Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: Ranch13] #16288739 07/27/21
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LOL, Ranch13, does the nose of that 645 Saeco look like a 535gr Postell or 540gr Creedmoor? i've never saw one, Bill said the old 1881 Saeco round nose has flew well to 1000 yards for folks too, and we all know how it and the big Lyman 520gr round nose perform on heavy game.


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16288858 07/27/21
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It looks more like an original 45 colt bullet
One time after Bill and I had a visit about stuff shortly after he got that 20 twist gun he dug around and came up with a 645 mould and when he called back he was excited


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
www.historicshooting.com
Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: Ranch13] #16288867 07/27/21
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Nice, i'm going to guess mid length roundish nose with small meplat? if so one could cast it soft and knock the crap out of deer sized game animals, Thanks for the info.


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: gunner500] #16288980 07/27/21
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Yeh I think cast out of 20-1 it would be a layer out coldbullet and it shoots quite well to 1000


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
www.historicshooting.com
Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: Ranch13] #16289123 07/27/21
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Ten-4, Thanks again, if i ever have 'Smith screw my 45-70 barrel back on my #3 sporter 45-70 i may look for a mold just to cast some up and see how they shoot.


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: gunner500] #16290105 07/28/21
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Well if I remember , when I start casting again this fall/winter, I'll get a bunch cast up and send you some.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
www.historicshooting.com
Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: APDDSN0864] #16290166 07/28/21
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Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Don, some of us never got into smoking dope as kids because we couldn't handle rolling papers. So...it's greasers for us! grin

Ed


LOL, we had a hemp rope factory 6 miles from here and hemp is still growing in the fence lines like bull thistles laugh but as kids we never smoked it but dried out corn silk stuffed in a corncob with a elderberry stem made a good corn cob pipe for the silk LOL.

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: Ranch13] #16290626 07/28/21
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Originally Posted by Ranch13
Well if I remember , when I start casting again this fall/winter, I'll get a bunch cast up and send you some.


Thanks Ranch, if i dont have the barrel on my 45-70 i can always shoot them in the red headed step-child 45 3-1/4 inch, that non-factory classless sob will eat anything ; ]


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16291439 07/28/21
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I haven't tried that bullet in either the 2.4 or the 2 7/8 but it should work well. for a greaser


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
www.historicshooting.com
Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: Ranch13] #16291531 07/28/21
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I bet it will, my 45 3-1/4 is a really good shooting rifle, just a ladder barrel sight hunting rifle, i only shoot the 1881 Saeco in it, i absolutely refuse to paper patch for that rifle, talk about a massive attempt at overcompensation ; ]


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16296316 07/30/21
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I'm kinda contrary towards little bullets in big bores. I use BP also.

Lyman 457125 casts at 530 gr with 30:1 alloy
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Someday I'll install a scope maybe and use a full bag rest just to see what it will do. Until then I'll just watch the buffalo soil their knickers.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: DigitalDan] #16301721 08/01/21
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Dang good stuff Dan, that big Lyman is a stoner on all critters, great and small, fine shooting Sir.


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16304091 08/01/21
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Fond of those bullets I am. Makes me think of an old line attributed to Hitler’s boys. “Torpedos Los!”


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: DigitalDan] #16311388 08/04/21
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You bet Dan, i've heard from Bagwelll about those bullets he used on countless animals, i was also privileged to be on a buffalo [bison] hunt where two friends of Bill's and i used that big Lyman over black powder in 45-70 and 45-90 Sharps rifles, one guy shot his buffalo in the chest at 60 yards, the bull turned to walk away and fell, the butcher found that bullet in his pelvis bones, i guess near 7-8 feet of penetration.

The other guy shot his through both shoulders, was reloading his rifle when his bull fell for keeps, no bullet recoveries on that one, with those guys, and everything Bill ever said is that big Lyman does three things best of all, quick killer, penetrates dead straight, and you can shoot it to a thousand yards, sounds like a damn tall order to beat imho.


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: APDDSN0864] #16325319 08/09/21
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[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Ed, I wanted a bullet to match the # 121 profile that would drop a larger diameter and carry plenty of lube so had Tom fix me up with this 46-500Y to drop .459 since both my PH molds drop puny diameters ..

At 30;1 this one drops 505 grs and groups way better than I can shoot !


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: FlyboyFlem] #16329689 08/10/21
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Good looking casting job Woody, favors Bill's old favorite the 480gr Lyman.


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: gunner500] #16332003 08/11/21
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Originally Posted by gunner500
Good looking casting job Woody, favors Bill's old favorite the 480gr Lyman.


Thanks Jerry that was the intent since his old favorite shot so well however as I said my molds drop so puny you could almost PP them if a few thou smaller.
grin


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: FlyboyFlem] #16333058 08/11/21
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LOL, i'm past ready for some frosty fall hunting my Friend!


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16336495 08/12/21
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Woody,

That's a good looking bullet! I bet my .458 WM would like that one!

My Lyman 121 mould drops 20:1 alloy at .456". When I was complaining to Bill about the undersized bullets, he just grinned and told me to go shoot them over 65.5gr of KIK 2f and see what happens.

Well, what happened was, I came back to Bills one day with 115 of those loaded up and we proceeded to shoot all of them on his home range.

My best group of that day was four shots at his 300 meter pig that was 1.75" wide and 3" tall. I was trying to hit that little 4" square plate he had sitting next to the pig, but the sun was shining on the side of the front blade and I was holding too far to the right.

I just opened the safe up and fondled my Sharps. I really need to get it back out and shoot it.

A good friend of mine once told me that a good job will ruin a man's life. I think he might be right. I just don't have time to do everything I want to do! grin

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16343609 08/15/21
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This is a great Thread!!!

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: HunterShooter58] #16352946 08/18/21
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Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
This is a great Thread!!!


Yes Sir it is HS58, after talking with Kirk out at Shiloh Rifles, i have cast up some 40 cal paper patch bullets from 40 to 1 alloy, done a double soft this morning with two 5lb bags of pure lead with one 20 to 1 puck from a muffin tin Wife gave me to pour and store my lead in, these are really soft paper patch bullets for my 44-77 Sharps Bottleneck, they weigh 480 grains, think they'll do fine for deer and pigs this season.


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: gunner500] #16358894 08/20/21
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Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
This is a great Thread!!!


Yes Sir it is HS58, after talking with Kirk out at Shiloh Rifles, i have cast up some 40 cal paper patch bullets from 40 to 1 alloy, done a double soft this morning with two 5lb bags of pure lead with one 20 to 1 puck from a muffin tin Wife gave me to pour and store my lead in, these are really soft paper patch bullets for my 44-77 Sharps Bottleneck, they weigh 480 grains, think they'll do fine for deer and pigs this season.


I like that, Jerry!
I bet before your Wife gave you those Tins, she filled em with Muffins, for you! Good Woman!
You've been blessed my friend!

Enjoy!

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: HunterShooter58] #16368553 08/23/21
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Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
This is a great Thread!!!


Yes Sir it is HS58, after talking with Kirk out at Shiloh Rifles, i have cast up some 40 cal paper patch bullets from 40 to 1 alloy, done a double soft this morning with two 5lb bags of pure lead with one 20 to 1 puck from a muffin tin Wife gave me to pour and store my lead in, these are really soft paper patch bullets for my 44-77 Sharps Bottleneck, they weigh 480 grains, think they'll do fine for deer and pigs this season.


I like that, Jerry!
I bet before your Wife gave you those Tins, she filled em with Muffins, for you! Good Woman!
You've been blessed my friend!

Enjoy!


You're exactly right HS58, imagine if you will giant blueberry muffins made with wheat/coconut/graham flour [she's going for health] with so many blueberries inside when she dumps the tin out they rupture, crack open, and oooz that blueberry syrup? goodness all over the place, she'll spatula you up a couple in a small bowl and hand you a cup of coffee, and no Sir, i dont rate that either ; ]


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16373659 08/25/21
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You guys are having entirely too much fun! smile

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Originally Posted by LEADMINER
You guys are having entirely too much fun! smile


LOL, well come on up outta that Lead Mine, give em your keys, retire, and get in on the fun Sir. smile


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Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16378986 08/26/21
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Ha-how are you going to keep feeding them howitzers if someone doesn't keep getting some lead up top? I can get a few lead bullets from a friend to feed my rolling block but I'm a minor leaguer compared to you guys! Seriously, I am sitting on veins of the stuff if I could get down about 75 feet to get it!

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16381059 08/27/21
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Leadminer, for the love of God, don't stop!

We need lead in a big, big way.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: rider] #16381243 08/27/21
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Yikes! Better put on another shift!

Re: general purpose target bullet for 45/70 [Re: LEADMINER] #16382734 08/28/21
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LOL, dang LEADMINER, if you insist, we'll certainly shoot 'em. cool

Good looking bullets DD.


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