Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Labradar and .458 WM

All handloads with 83.0 grains AA-2460 at 80 degrees F
2 factory loads shot to foul the barrel and as control
Bullet weights: 450-gr, 480-gr, 500-gr, 510-gr
Ruger No. 1 factory barrel with SAAMI .458 WM chamber
24" length barrel, 0.459" groove diameter by slugging, 1:14" twist, of course ...



The factory loads:
Hornady DGS 500-gr 3 shots had st.dev. of 11.1 fps, ES of 19 fps, 3-shot ave MV = 2140 fps.
Winchester RNSN 510-gr 3 shots had st.dev. of 32.6 fps, ES 65 fps, 3-shot ave MV = 2035 fps.
The DALDEDs or Lottites must still be doing the QA work at the Winchester ammo factory.
The handloads were much more uniform and faster in MV.













The slow factory loads shot about 9-10" high at 100 yards,
The faster handloads shot low, POI below POA at 100 yards,
except for the Woodleigh Hydro that had POI above POA, despite being fastest load of all tested.
Funny, could it be barrel whip in the fat-barreled Ruger No. 1 ?
Anyway the HYDRO 480-grainer at 2468 fps MV shot much lower than the slow factory loads did,
which speaks to less barrel time and less muzzle rise in recoil before the bullet the bullet exits the muzzle, as usual.

The loads could be reduced by a couple of grains or more of powder looking for accuracy loads.
The most uniform was the 480-grain DGX Bonded with 5-shot st.dev. of only 2.6 fps,
which is the only load that is not compressed after droptube filling.
That is something to consider.
I will also consider the above test loads with 83.0 gr AA-2460 to be my maximums in Daisy.
They are .458 WM+ loads that the .458 Lott cannot beat.

I would zero that 450-gr TSX at 200 yards, and use it out to +300 yards, as Sir Jerry said, about 2.5" high at 100 yards.
Then the 500-gr TBSS would work at shorter ranges.

Riflecrank,how many rds does that barrel have through it?

Swiftshot, Daisy is 41 years old. She came to be my pet early last year.
Her previous owner said he shot a lot of cast bullets with her, but I have no idea of his count.



A couple of soaks with WIPE OUT and some patches on a plastic bristle brush take her back to bare.

Don't worry, I do not scrub her with JB Paste after every 20 rounds as someone at the anchor baby's site once recommended.
She is a replacement for my first "big bore," a Ruger No. 1 .458 WM of 1984 purchase in Blairstown, MO,
from John Wall Mercantile.
I foolishly traded that one off due to Lottite brainwashing before I achieved enlightenment.
Never again !
Daisy will do it all.




I did use J-B WELD instead of Loc-Tite on the screws in her quarter rib attachment to barrel,
but never any JB paste in her bore, no way.

Velocity check in Daisy of Sir Jerry's Safari Ammo:



Above trajectory assumes a 1.75" sight height, centerline of bore to centerline of scope.

Sorry for the time lag.
My best was the 300 gr X bullet @2700 fps mv.
Softball size hole completely through the bear.
I think I got one with the 350 gr Speer soft nose flat nose. @ 2500 fps . Similar results.
Dead bears on the ground before the rifle is fully risen in recoil.

Sir Ron;

Those numbers from Daisy are amazing! Not sure if I'll go there with Grace, but she did 2353 fps from the 480 DGX and 82 grs H4895.

Thanks for those "revelations" for the Ruger #1 in .458 Win Mag - one load (480 Hydro) attaining over 6400 ft-lbs at the muzzle!!!!!

I now have to do a test for my scope (Nikon 2 - 8 x 32) to verify that its still good. It has taken quite a pounding over the past several years from the Ruger #1 in .45-70 LT and now the Ruger # 1 in .458.

For that, I'll use some 300 TSX's and 75 grs of H4198 at about 2750 fps. That load was shooting sub-moa. And, if the scope's good, and I can find more 300gr TSX's, that will become my go-to load. Modest pressure and recoil, plus flat shooting. It's just as accurate at about 2960 fps but I don't need that for anything. Actually the numbers for three shots were: 2958, 2961, and 2959; corrected to MV = 2978, 2981 and 2979. Avg KE = 5913 ft-lbs.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Bears, big or small, are pretty soft targets compared to buffalo and elephant.
Phil Shoemaker and Finn Aagaard were both impressed by the 400-gr X-bullet of yore, since discontinued.
At no more than 2300 fps in a SAAMI .458 WM load they reportedly were superior to any .458"/500-510-gr soft nose,
even TB Bearclaw.
That 450-gr TSX at 2459 fps and +6000 ft-lbs will do even better.
On a buffalo it will be interesting to see if it stops on the offside hide or pokes on through.

Here are the "softs" that I have had stopped on broadside shots on buffalo or moose:

.375"/ 300-gr Swift AF at 2500 fps MV, 50-yard impact on water buffalo (.375 H&H)

.416"/ 350-gr X-Bullet at 2700 fps MV, 100-yard impact on water buffalo (.416 Rigby)

.423"/ 380-gr North Fork SP at 2526 fps MV, 80-yard impact on 1300-pound bison (.404 Jeffery)

.458"/ 500-gr Old Hornady RNSN at 2150 fps MV, 50-yard impact on moose (shed jacket) (.458 WM)

.458"/ 500-gr RNSN, .460 Wby factory load claimed 2700 fps MV, 50-yard impact on water buffalo (bullet disintegrated) (.460 Wby)

.510"/ 570-gr XLC at 2400 fps MV, 50-yard impact on 1632-pound bison, repeated post mortem at 25 yards (.510/460 Wby)

.510"/ 450-gr GSC HV at 2650 fps MV, 75-yard impact on cape buffalo (.500 Mbogo 3-Inch)

Here are the solids that have zipped right through buffalo whether through both shoulders broadside
or on Texas Heart Shot from stern to stem:

.416"/ 380-gr GSC FN at 2500 fps MV, 50-yard impact on cape buffalo, both shoulders (.416 Rigby)

.510"/ 570-gr GSC FN at 2350 fps MV, 75-yards impact on bison, Texas Heart Shot exited on the run,
and repeated at 25-yards for Texas Tonsillectomy post mortem, exited again (.510/460 Wby)

The .458"/ 500-gr TBSS at 2350 to 2400 fps MV ought to zip through a buffalo from any angle at 25 to 75 yards.
I think it will be superior to the .510"/ 570-grain GSC FN on penetrating ability:



Correction on above photo, should read 75 yards on the run.
The reason he was shot on the run was because the 570-gr XLC hit him broadside in the shoulder at 50 yards
and knocked him over, but he jumped up and ran 25 yards going away before I could hit him again in the rump.
He went down and stayed down with the Texas Heart Shot.
After he was dead, I shot him again with both of those bullets at same respective angles as the first two, soft and solid
but at closer range, 25 yards, just to test the bullets.
Same results except the XLC was expanded more, and the FN solid exited both times.
Both bullets were propelled by the same 110 grains of RL-15.
2400 fps XLC 570-grainer, 2350 fps GSC FN 570-gr solid.





Yep, this was me 19 years ago in full-blown .458 Winchester Magnum Denial, like Ross Seyfried and Terry Wieland:



I am older and wiser now.
I prefer the .458 Winchester Magnum now, for many reasons,
not least of which is that it will kill as well as any sporting rifle on any game that might come along,
plus it is easier to both carry and to shoot than anything of larger caliber or brass length.

Sir Bob,


Bless your Nikon. Daisy was wearing one too.
My only suggestion is to check all the screws and studs holding the quarter rib onto the barrel.
Make sure they are tight and stay that way.
I learned by loosening one on a .475 Linebaugh Ruger No. 1.





Red Loc-Tite or J-B Weld if the factory did not do it. They neglected it on the above 6 lbs-13oz bare-weight rifle, which has a long throat from the factory,
the secret to the mighty-mite power of that .475 Linebaugh rifle.

The 9-pound bare-weight Ruger No. 1 is the perfectly balanced and portable shooter for any load possible as a .458 WM+ or SAAMI.

That is a big Bison! Enjoyed the post, so I will contribute.

I have taken two bison , but only one running. That was a spooked cow running left to right at 45 yards when it broke cover. Rifle was 1886 .458 2.4 African load - 450 grain solid at 2150 fps through both shoulders - BANG tumble down head over heels. It was filmed, but the film is boring with preface and all just for the shot and tumble, and shouts from guide. Full shoot through- bullet not recovered.

That is a big Bison! Enjoyed the post, so I will contribute.

I have taken two bison , but only one running. That was a spooked cow running left to right at 45 yards when it broke cover. Rifle was 1886 .458 2.4 African load - 450 grain solid at 2150 fps through both shoulders - BANG tumble down head over heels. It was filmed, but the film is boring with preface and all just for the shot and tumble, and shouts from guide. Full shoot through- bullet not recovered.

crshelton,

Noted: .458"/ 450-gr solids at 2150 fps will pass through buffalo. Use caution when herd shooting.
I bet it was an FN. Something like a North Fork or what make ?

If you want to be a knight in the Crusade for Truth of the .458 Winchester Magnum, it is yours to accept,
take it or leave it.
That and 5 bucks will buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Sir Jerry can tap you on the shoulders with the flat of his Bagwell Bowie if you require the full ceremony.
Sir Charles ?

Cowboy Wisdom:

Funny thing, the tighest grouping of three shots during the spraying of bullets before the Labradar
came with the 480-gr XTSX, Bubba-tuned to within +/- 0.1 grains.
Here it is with the errant two shots cropped out of the 100-yard group:



Here is the previous trial at 50 yards and lower velocity,
25" Shilen barrel instead of 24" Ruger barrel,
similar COL, 3.57" instead of 3.59",
77 grains of AA-2460 instead of 83 grains:

Round Table discussion topic for Knights of the Crusade:

Consider a rule of thumb for KE limits on the .458 WM+ in a 24" barrel:
For the hard and slippery, brass and bronze bearing-surfaced bullets, 6500 ft-lbs KE or less.
For the softer and stickier, pure copper bearing-surfaced bullets, 6100 ft-lbs is knocking on the door.
The gilding-metal-surfaced bullets might be at a level intermediate to the above, say 6300 ft-lbs?

This suggests a brass hollowpoint hexploder with aerodynamic shape might be a great sheep bullet for the .458 WM+.
A brass Lehigh Defense 300-gr spitzer solid might be faster than a 300-gr TSX or TTSX.
Maybe a brass hollowpoint with a plastic tip and a boat tail at about 350 grains could approach 2892 fps for 6500 ft-lbs KE ?
Probably so.

My top 350-gr TSX load was with 81.0 grains of H4198, 41 degrees F, COL 3.44", 25" Shilen barrel,
MV = 2806 fps, KE = 6119 ft-lbs.
(Subtract 15 fps for correction to 24" barrel MV.)
I don't recall exactly what Sir Bob has done with that bullet,
but it was very similar, as I did that to follow his lead.
And three of those bullets went into one hole at 50 yards.
That could be used for sheep hunting too.

Here is the Labradar data on the factory loads at 80*F, 24" Ruger No. 1 factory barrel, starting with clean barrel,
3 shots each with two factory loads:

Hornady Superformance 500-gr DGS, factory claimed MV = 2140 fps:
COL = 3.275", BOL = 1.385", seat depth = 0.610"
MV/ 100-yd Vel.
1. 2153 fps (first fouling shot in clean barrel)/ 1865 fps
2. 2134 fps/ 1858 fps
3. 2134 fps/ 1877 fps
average MV = 2140.3 fps
ES = 19 fps
St.dev. = 11.1 fps, might have been a lot better without traces of lubricant in barrel for the first shot.
The ES on the 100-yd velocities was coincidentally also 19 fps, but not consistent with MV, shot-to-shot.
This could be explained by minor irregularities in the individual bullets, or atmospheric variations, or within instrumental error shot-to-shot,
or all of the above.
100-yard velocity average = 1866.7 fps.
100-yard velocity loss = 273.6 fps
Claimed BC = 0.295

Winchester W-W Super 510-gr RNSN, factory claimed MV = 2040 fps, next 3 shots:
COL = 3.330", BOL = 1.325", seat depth = 0.495"
MV/ 100-yd Vel.
1. 2001 fps/ 1787 fps
2. 2040 fps/ 1806 fps
3. 2065 fps/ 1821 fps
average MV = 2035.3 fps
ES = 64 fps (though Labradar output said 65 fps according to my assistant calling it out to me)
St.dev. = 32.6 fps
The ES on the 100-yd velocities was only 34 fps, ditto above explanation.
100-yard velocity average = 1804.7 fps
100-yard velocity loss = 230.6 fps
Claimed BC = 0.284
Slower bullets lose velocity more slowly !

Does anybody want to calculate those BC number to compare to the claims,
or do I have to do that questionable statistical significance myself ?
The 5-shot ones will be less insignificant.

In response to RC,
1.. Yes, it was a .458 450 grain North Fork FPS loaded for our bullet tests by Grizzly Cartridge.
That same load took one Ele, multiple buff (mostly shoot throughs) and smaller stuff. The 300 grain Nosler at 2200 fps made good medicine for leopard.
2. Presently playing with NF 350 grain SS in my .45 2.1 DR. Looking good so far. Have to get out and adjust scope to move group 2 inches left this weekend before field testing on feral hogs. Some fun!! With luck, the 350 and 400 bullets will be in the same group at 50 and 100 yards. They leave the barrel at 1 inch apart and are arriving at the 50 yard target at just under that now.


3. Knighthood Offer accepted without need of full ceremony. - you word is good enough, plus I have plenty of Starbucks and Black Rifle coffee here on the pony farm.

Sir Ron;

Without input for atmospheric conditions and elevation, these were the results from my ballistics' program:

500gr Hornady = .280 BC

510gr WW = .324 BC

Results from my Ruger #1 and the 350 TSX = 81 grs H4198, Hornady cases, WLRM primers = 2782 fps/6014 ft-lbs, spring 2020. (3.44' COL)

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Damn, You're rolling full steam ahead for 'The Crusade' Sir Ron, great accuracy and numbers, i need to fire a 50 yards group with the irons alternating the 450gr TSX and 500gr TBSS and see where they land, also take 300 yard shots with the scope with the 450gr TSX's, should be no more than 10 inches low and still packing near 1850 fps at 300.

Sir Charles,

Your Knighthood has been well earned by your .458-caliber Crusading with all sorts of rifles, against all sorts of game worldwide.
The Lottite infidels' pride goeth before their fall. Hubris is a bitch.
They got the big head and you have let the hot air out of them as surely as your 450-grain North Fork FP solids pass through buffalo and elephant.
You have shown the way much like Saint Bagwell.
Congratulations on your new title.
There are only a couple more seats at the Round Table needing filling.
Then we have to get a bigger Square Table.

I will dig up some pictures of North Fork bullets, including that .423"/ 380-grain SS recovered by me from a bison,
and a bunch of expanded .458 caliber softs from Mike Brady's testing: 350-gr, 400-gr, and 450-gr, for the Crusade.

Sir Bob,
Buy a donkey for the Crusade.
Your load is noted, again.
Add 15 fps for an extra inch of barrel and add another 9 fps for plugging your porting on the 24" barrel
and your 2782 fps becomes my 2806 fps from a 25" non-ported barrel.
Close enough to exact for a Crusader.

My BC numbers follow, from the RCBS BC Calculator with my local conditions, for what it is worth,
BC calculated from Labradar 0 to 100 yards vs. manufacturer claim

510-gr W-W RNSN: BC = 0.316 vs. 0.284

500-gr Hornady DGS: BC = 0.267 vs. 0.295

500-gr Federal TBSS: BC = 0.260 vs. 0.328

480-gr Woodleigh HYDRO: BC = 0.198 vs. 0.192 [estimated by (480/400) X BC of uncapped 400-gr HYDRO = 0.160]

480-gr Hornady DGX-Bonded: BC = 0.245 vs. 0.285

480-gr Bubba's XTSX: BC = 0.235 vs. (Bubba was guessing about 0.200, so he is happy.)

450-gr Barnes TSX-FB: BC = 0.338 vs. 0.369

Like I said, this is worth what you paid for it.

Good plan, Sir Jerry.
And now I am hot to trot a 400-gr XTSX by Bubba with same 83.0 grains of AA-2460.

Funny thing is Western Powders data shows same max load for the 400-gr Barnes SSSP with AA-2230 and AA-2460:
Both max loads are 80.0 grains of powder.
AA-2230 is only 5 fps faster, but about 1000 psi higher pressure.
Hardly any difference at all.
And both of those used a short COL of 3.140".
BOL of that cup&core softie is only 1.160" so seating depth would be ~0.52",
and the 80 grains of either AA-2230 or AA-2460 are both compressed:
AA-2230 >>> 2457 fps <<< 53,690 PSI
AA-2460 >>> 2452 fps <<< 52,746 PSI