Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Pre 64 FWT doesn't want to shoot

Do pre 64 FWT's need a little forend pressure to shoot well? Barrel is floated except for the first 1.5". Inch and half 3 shot groups are about as well as I can make it do so far. Never had this much trouble with standard weight barrels.
Phil

You guys can keep bedding them with chidt under the chamber if you want, but in my experience they shoot much better with the barrel totally freefloated:

+1 on the full free float for pre 64 FWT .308 -- shoots sub minute of angle.

My buddies 308 does too. I glass bedded his into this mcmillan and it's a shooting sob. I started a thread on the bedding job a few years ago, but all the pics are gone thanks to photobucket, or I'd post the link. A thread like that is worthless without pics though. Here's his rifle:


After working up a handload with a lowly 150 gr. Hornady interlock and Varget, it puts them in the same ragged hole. Almost too boring. One of the best shooting 308's I've seen. I hate to say it, but it even shoots better than my Tikka 308...

Yep, no need to bed the rear of the barrel on 70 Featherweights, whether pre- or post-'64.

I use a few drops of brown acrylic paint to the Acraglas after its mixed. Mix it again until the brown is blended - add another drop to blend better and start applying.
Works very well and doesn't change its hardening properties. I experimented with this when learning how to repair Red Wing stoneware. There is a learning curve to that, but for gunstocks its simple.
Good luck

Good post. I just use Devcon 10110 and keep it slightly under the stock line. Works great... I don't really like Acraglas. To each his own though.. As long as the end result is as such, all is well...

Well, I guess I need to completely float the barrel and see what happens. Thanks for the input.
Phil

With a good glass bedding job. Im assuming with your handle, you know things need a proper glass bedding job. You don't get consistent results otherwise...There are some that think otherwise, but you know how those guys fare in real world results.. TenX, if that is true, you've btdt.... I've met a lot of guys that say they are going to cut the x ring out. Some times it happens, most times it doesn't...

I have glass bedded the stock stress free but did bed the first 1.5" of the barrel because with other rifles this is the method that has worked well for me. However none of these were FWT or light barrels so I'm in a learning curve with this weight of barrel. I'll take the bedding out of the barrel and see what happens. This is the fun part of a new acquisition if my bullet supply holds up.
Phil

TenX you sound very knowledgeable, and your work can't be faulted that I can see. Although the chamber need not be bedded, I did not know it was detrimental if it was. I wouldn't hog out your chamber bedding just yet, just shim the action up a little for a shooting test. I think a thorough inspection of the mag box is in order, and definitely check rear tang screw clearance, and BSA won't like this, but the front of the recoil lug. Just some thoughts to consider...on a Mauser, the mag box can create flyers if it bears too heavily on the stock.

And my experience is exactly the opposite..

Redneck
Do you put any pressure on the forend tip? I've never had to do it on standard barrel weights but this is my first FWT.
Phil

Post up your groups for comparison. I wont mind.

Nope - any fore-end pressure's eliminated..


I don't have to - but my customers can.. Just curious - but have you tried your rifles with just receiver, and then later with receiver + 1-2" of shank bedding and noted the difference?? Show me those groups and differences..

BSA, You are painting with a pretty broad brush. There are years of back issues of Precision Shooting where experimenters have glued sporting weight rifles in the stock, about as close as you can get to full contact bedding, and gotten excellent results, accurate enough to compete in benchrest. Several nationally ranked competitors went so far as to glue in the barrel and full float the action. So by all means, full float if it works for you, but don't try to sell it as the 'only' way. There are many techniques for skinning a cat.

Well, I have success. I left the bedding as it was and started messing with bullet seating depth. So it appears, my normal method of bedding Mod 70's is good for both standard weight barrels and FWT barrels, at least in this instance.

I'm going to quit while I'm ahead. Shot the first 100 yd group, made some scope adjustments then the second one after the barrel had cooled. It was hot out today. Yes, I know they aren't 5 shot groups but again this is a hunting rifle so I figure I'm good to go. Thanks for all the input guys.
Phil

that should get the job done, enjoy your classy rifle.

TenX, What chambering is the rifle and what bullets are you running?

30-06 and I'm using Nosler 150 gr Ballistic Tips. Best load was with IMR 4064 although Reloader 19 ran a close second.
Phil

B4 you do anymore stuff to this rifle : clean the barrel and put a bore scope in this rifle and check out the rifling 1st, then decide what to do .

Did that before I ever started anything, barrel although long way from new, plenty good enough. Not planning on doing anything else except loading rounds and waiting for deer season.
Phil

In more than 40 yrs. of collecting and shooting/hunting pre'64 M/70 FWT rifles I have never found it necessary to do anything to the bedding of the barrel or action. Always have been able to find a handload that produced acceptable hunting accuracy.

Then you may never have shot one with the original factory barrel bedding--which was FAR from free-floated. Instead it was just kind of loose--just enough to have the forend vibrate against the barrel in various weird ways.

There's more than one review of the new Featherweight back in those days that reported schidt accuracy. Unless, of course, you consider 2-4" 5-shot groups "acceptable hunting accuracy," which some of the reviews generously did back then.

I most certainly do not consider 2-4" groups as being acceptable hunting accuracy. My rifles have unerringly produced 1" - 1 1/2" 3 shot groups @ 100 yds. I have targets from my current pre '64 .30-06 to back up this assertion.

Been over half a century since a pre 64 was placed in that stock....It would be rare for the fit to be the same all these years later....

My Fwt 30-06’s shoot really well with Hornady Interlock 150, 165 and 180 flat base bullets. I’ve had a few rifles that didn’t like Boattail bullets.

Its all about standards. Some/most guys live with that kind of accuracy. Others want their rifles to be more consistent shooting and not have to worry about things changing year after year. Glass bedding has many positives. I don't condone glass bedding a collectible all original pre 64 rifle, but if it has had a recoil pad installed, all bets are off and it's fair game. Another thing glass bedding does is protect the stock from cracking out under recoil. I've seen a few pre 64 338's with cracked stocks. The 375's were prone to cracking, that's why the last couple years the factory installed through bolts in the stocks. Keep in mind, accuracy requirements are to be left up to the individual who owns the rifle. Mine have shot very well after a proper glass bedding job. I've tricked out a few in my day and they have all shot lights out.




Your "1 1/2" 3 shot group requirement is fine for you. As is the 1/2" requirement I have. Different strokes.. Sub moa 5 shot groups work as well. Even with crappy old Winchester power points:

However, take a good look at that target. That was when I was messing around with full length bedding that fwt in a mcmillan. Here's a good pic of that bedding job:

Proof that that particular rifle prefers to be freefloated. Its been my experience that most of them do.

I had a .338 WM that shot cloverleaf groups like that with the long discontinued Speer 275gr. RN and IMR 4350. No stock mods although it had a Canjar trigger, it was one of the best shooting pre'64 rifles I've ever owned.

Agree. Purchased new in the summer of 1981and still have a .257 Roberts Win M70 featherweight. The forend tip rubbed hard against one side of the barrel. Shot poorly. I relieved the rubbing side wood, folded a match book cover and put it underneath the barrel at the tip. Solved the problem. Shot well with ken water's pet loads of 45gn of imr4350 with a 100gn Sierra spitzer, and 40gn of imr4064 and a Sierra 75gn, can't remember if Spitzer or hp.

The pre-64 M-70 30-06 FWT that I have recently has an Niedner/Linden styled classic walnut stock added
with a skeletal checked pistol grip cap and Niedner checked butt plate.
A friend had this at a local gun show. The odds are slim for running into this 1930s styled stock
for a 1950s Winchester M-70. Accurate plus- enough for a nice white tail buck this past Fall.

Two other standard M-70s are in 338-06 and 35 Whelen, utilizing the original barrels-found and rescued. Iron sights work in blinding snow...


Old gringo, old guns.

NRA LIFE

This reminds me of my son he has a pre 64 mod 70 FW that shoots about the same.
I saw him dump 2 running coyotes with it one at about 200 the next one at 225 or so off hand he walked out of the timber and busted these 2 coyotes and just hammered them
He never uses that rifle as he has more confidence in better paper shooters. I give him a lot of crap over that. But I do understand
The dif in 1.5 and 1/4 inch really doesn’t mean much when shooting off hand or leaning agamst a tree
No concrete benches and sandbags in the woods