Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire My concerns with the vaccine

It may be a huge difference to you, but the results are the same and all vaccines are covered under the 1988 Act if they are fully approved. Which any of these would be if fully approved. I did use the 1988 Act comment prematurely without considering the EUA status and the PREP Act. I will admit that, but the fact remains the same that no new unique legislation was passed for the Covid vaccines as was being implied. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was implied. All I was doing is pointing this out.

You also implied that the PREP act had not been used for a vaccine in the past under the EUA. It is true that it hasn't been used nationwide for the obvious reason because we haven't had a nationwide pandemic since the passage in 2005. I pointed out that it wasn't the only application of the PREP act for a vaccine (Ebola).

So your point that you are trying to make is that I applied the 1988 Act prematurely due to the EUA status of the Covid vaccines? Does that make you feel better that I acknowledge it was premature and that they are currently covered under the PREP act?

Wabigoon, I don’t offer this information to convince the committed anti-vaxxers. Kooks like TheRealHawkeye and his misguided ilk are confirmed in their delusions past the point of any rationality. It’s an article of faith with them.

I offer this information for those who are troubled and confused by the plethora of flagrant falsehoods ( like the specious “death rate” number put up by MtnSnake just a few posts above this one) that cloud the waters, and who want some actual facts to settle their minds. I do this for folks like them. There are still a goodly number of these people who participate in this ridiculous sh i t show on these pages.

Sadly, our education system has been mired in its 1950’s era approach to science education, so almost the entire adult population of the US has less science education behind them than grade schoolers in most other developed countries. As such it is easy for anti-Vax charlatans to get an audience and sow seeds of myth and paranoia about any controversial science topic, whether it be global warming or SARS-CoV2.

John, it’s your call and you know I respect that. I am not interested in selling anyone on getting vaccinated. It’s still a free country as far as this goes.

But I do not suffer idiots spouting falsehoods to speak their lies unchallenged.

No , you miss the points .Words mean things.
You implied another’s decision not to take the jab because pharmaceuticals got a pass on liability, as uninformed. That the vaccine would had been w/o liability anyway because of the 1988 Act . And that wasn’t a reason to not take the jab.

It would not be covered under the 1988 Act for obvious reasons.
The lack of studies.


Under PERP 2005 we are the study. So yes, it is a perfectly valid reason to decline the jab.


And gvt is sooooo looking out for our best interests......

on liability under 1988 Act We pay for damages via a .75 tax on every vaccine anyway. So gvt put all the chips in big pharmaceuticals table and stuck it up ours.

On liability under PERP HHS gets to exempt the drug and then they are judge, jury , and appeals for any claims.

If this rigged system doesn’t raise flags for you, then run to the head of the line.

Very true, and thanks for posting this.

The sentiment I keep reading in this forum, and hearing from the TeeVee and real life people in the ER and on the streets is that 1) they know less actual science than a kid in 10th grade biology class knows, but 2) the minuscule knowledge they DO have makes them skeptics of the SARS-CoV2 vaccine. In other words, “I know almost nothing, but I think my judgment on this so solid.”

There has been ample information on how the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA vaccine works for at least the past 6 months, in scholarly articles for those who have the science background for it, and in various popular science press articles that explain it at a level anyone with a 9th grade education can understand. Yet people still spout nonsense that could have been dispelled by reading such articles at any time.

Rant off.




Well, we can’t say with 100% certainty what the long term effects of the CoV2 vaccines are gonna be in 2 or 5 or 10 years, cuz we ain’t there yet and prognosticating almost always makes a person look foolish when all the folks with perfect hindsight give bent to their spleen at a comfortable remove.

But that doesn’t tell the whole story.

MRNA vaccine technology was being rapidly developed in molecular biology labs at universities all over the world whe. I was still in grad school, back in the 1980’s. This isn’t “new” stuff. Once the basic biochemistry was worked out, the template for these vaccines was readily established, and virtually all mRNA vaccines today follow this same template. The beauty of this is that a vaccine for a new virus can be developed fairly quickly by plugging the genetic code for the new virus into the existing mRNA template. This is thousands, maybe millions of times faster and simpler than developing a vaccine by the old methods from the mid20th century.

The first mRNA vaccines were being tested in labs by the mid-90’s. They were trialed for veterinary use by the late 90’s, and some have been in use in veterinary applications for close to 20 years now. None of these vaccines have produced long-term problems in the populations they’re used in, and because all mRNA vaccines work by the same basic mechanism, and because human biology is very similar to bovine and murine and porcine biology, we can safely say that the CoV2 vaccine will be equally safe in the long term.

The other objection I keep hearing is that “these vaccines aren’t FDA approved”. This is true, they aren’t. But FDA approval is not a strong signifier of safety, and absence of FDA approval does not mean a treatment is unsafe. The FDA has approved a goodly number of drugs and treatments that ultimately proved to be disastrous. Thalidomide and diethylstilbestrol are two glaring examples of “FDA approved” drugs that caused horrible birth defects. Similarly, the FDA has still not approved Ivermectin or Fluvoxamine as effective treatments for COVID, despite a large body of evidence showing they are indeed very effective. You need to look at the FDA as basically the medical equivalent to the US Postal Service: they get some basic stuff right, but they’re slow, and they ain’t nowhere near cutting edge.



This is such elementary science, I am frankly embarrassed for people who think that an mRNA virus can alter human DNA. You couldn’t get a passing grade in 10th grade biology if you believed this nonsense. It’s equivalent to thinking that if you piss in the waters of the Mississippi in St Louis that you would contaminate the glaciers in Montana. It’s that stupid.

Look at it this way: the DNA, in the nucleus of a human cell, comprises the chromosomes that carry the human genetic code that makes us the species we are. Portions of the double-stranded DNA in the nucleus are copied in a simple single-strand “shorthand” form called RNA, and these copied RNA strands are the messengers that tell the rest of the cell what to do. RNA isn’t copied back into DNA form, this is a one-way railway track. Once the RNA message is delivered, the RNA is broken down into its components and the components are reused to make more RNA messages , over and over and over again.

The mRNA vaccines work by delivering a “fake” message to certain human cells that cause them to manufacture the CoV2 S-protein, which the cells of the immune system recognize as a foreign protein, and then makes antibodies to it. The vaccine does not interact with our DNA in any way whatsoever. It doesn’t even go into the nucleus (where DNA is located), but does all of its work in the outer parts of the cell in cytoplasmic structures called ribosomes. There is ZERO relationship between the vaccine mRNA and the human genetic code in your DNA. ZERO. It also (probably) interacts with the immune system ‘s T-cells, which incorporate the S-protein into the T-cell-mediated immun response, which is independent of antibodies and far longer-lasting.

After the “fake” mRNA message from the vaccine is used by the human cells for a while, the system plays out and the cells stop making S-protein, and the mRNA fragment is broken down into its components and is reused by the cells like any other piece of RNA. After a few days there are no traces of the vaccine mRNA left in the vaccinated person’s system.

I strongly suggest that folks who want to attack the science of the mRNA vaccines actually learn some science first. It won’t be easy, but with a couple days’ worth of reading textbooks, or heck, just watching decent YouTube videos on the topics of nuclei acid biology and protein synthesis, you’ll be informed enough to realize that 99% of the pseudo-scientific objections to the CoV2 vaccines are utter nonsense.

Very true, and thanks for posting this.

The sentiment I keep reading in this forum, and hearing from the TeeVee and real life people in the ER and on the streets is that 1) they know less actual science than a kid in 10th grade biology class knows, but 2) the minuscule knowledge they DO have makes them skeptics of the SARS-CoV2 vaccine. In other words, “I know almost nothing, but I think my judgment on this so solid.”

There has been ample information on how the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA vaccine works for at least the past 6 months, in scholarly articles for those who have the science background for it, and in various popular science press articles that explain it at a level anyone with a 9th grade education can understand. Yet people still spout nonsense that could have been dispelled by reading such articles at any time.

Rant off.




Well, we can’t say with 100% certainty what the long term effects of the CoV2 vaccines are gonna be in 2 or 5 or 10 years, cuz we ain’t there yet and prognosticating almost always makes a person look foolish when all the folks with perfect hindsight give bent to their spleen at a comfortable remove.

But that doesn’t tell the whole story.

MRNA vaccine technology was being rapidly developed in molecular biology labs at universities all over the world whe. I was still in grad school, back in the 1980’s. This isn’t “new” stuff. Once the basic biochemistry was worked out, the template for these vaccines was readily established, and virtually all mRNA vaccines today follow this same template. The beauty of this is that a vaccine for a new virus can be developed fairly quickly by plugging the genetic code for the new virus into the existing mRNA template. This is thousands, maybe millions of times faster and simpler than developing a vaccine by the old methods from the mid20th century.

The first mRNA vaccines were being tested in labs by the mid-90’s. They were trialed for veterinary use by the late 90’s, and some have been in use in veterinary applications for close to 20 years now. None of these vaccines have produced long-term problems in the populations they’re used in, and because all mRNA vaccines work by the same basic mechanism, and because human biology is very similar to bovine and murine and porcine biology, we can safely say that the CoV2 vaccine will be equally safe in the long term.

The other objection I keep hearing is that “these vaccines aren’t FDA approved”. This is true, they aren’t. But FDA approval is not a strong signifier of safety, and absence of FDA approval does not mean a treatment is unsafe. The FDA has approved a goodly number of drugs and treatments that ultimately proved to be disastrous. Thalidomide and diethylstilbestrol are two glaring examples of “FDA approved” drugs that caused horrible birth defects. Similarly, the FDA has still not approved Ivermectin or Fluvoxamine as effective treatments for COVID, despite a large body of evidence showing they are indeed very effective. You need to look at the FDA as basically the medical equivalent to the US Postal Service: they get some basic stuff right, but they’re slow, and they ain’t nowhere near cutting edge.



This is such elementary science, I am frankly embarrassed for people who think that an mRNA virus can alter human DNA. You couldn’t get a passing grade in 10th grade biology if you believed this nonsense. It’s equivalent to thinking that if you piss in the waters of the Mississippi in St Louis that you would contaminate the glaciers in Montana. It’s that stupid.

Look at it this way: the DNA, in the nucleus of a human cell, comprises the chromosomes that carry the human genetic code that makes us the species we are. Portions of the double-stranded DNA in the nucleus are copied in a simple single-strand “shorthand” form called RNA, and these copied RNA strands are the messengers that tell the rest of the cell what to do. RNA isn’t copied back into DNA form, this is a one-way railway track. Once the RNA message is delivered, the RNA is broken down into its components and the components are reused to make more RNA messages , over and over and over again.

The mRNA vaccines work by delivering a “fake” message to certain human cells that cause them to manufacture the CoV2 S-protein, which the cells of the immune system recognize as a foreign protein, and then makes antibodies to it. The vaccine does not interact with our DNA in any way whatsoever. It doesn’t even go into the nucleus (where DNA is located), but does all of its work in the outer parts of the cell in cytoplasmic structures called ribosomes. There is ZERO relationship between the vaccine mRNA and the human genetic code in your DNA. ZERO. It also (probably) interacts with the immune system ‘s T-cells, which incorporate the S-protein into the T-cell-mediated immun response, which is independent of antibodies and far longer-lasting.

After the “fake” mRNA message from the vaccine is used by the human cells for a while, the system plays out and the cells stop making S-protein, and the mRNA fragment is broken down into its components and is reused by the cells like any other piece of RNA. After a few days there are no traces of the vaccine mRNA left in the vaccinated person’s system.

I strongly suggest that folks who want to attack the science of the mRNA vaccines actually learn some science first. It won’t be easy, but with a couple days’ worth of reading textbooks, or heck, just watching decent YouTube videos on the topics of nuclei acid biology and protein synthesis, you’ll be informed enough to realize that 99% of the pseudo-scientific objections to the CoV2 vaccines are utter nonsense.

😂😂😂

The number of US deaths that have been medically attributed to CoVID vaccines as of July 23, 2021, was THREE. Not 10,000, not 100, not 10: THREE.

Go peddle your B U L L S H I T somewhere else.

https://covid-101.org/science/how-many-people-have-died-from-the-vaccine-in-the-u-s/

Very true, and thanks for posting this.

The sentiment I keep reading in this forum, and hearing from the TeeVee and real life people in the ER and on the streets is that 1) they know less actual science than a kid in 10th grade biology class knows, but 2) the minuscule knowledge they DO have makes them skeptics of the SARS-CoV2 vaccine. In other words, “I know almost nothing, but I think my judgment on this so solid.”

There has been ample information on how the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA vaccine works for at least the past 6 months, in scholarly articles for those who have the science background for it, and in various popular science press articles that explain it at a level anyone with a 9th grade education can understand. Yet people still spout nonsense that could have been dispelled by reading such articles at any time.

Rant off.




Well, we can’t say with 100% certainty what the long term effects of the CoV2 vaccines are gonna be in 2 or 5 or 10 years, cuz we ain’t there yet and prognosticating almost always makes a person look foolish when all the folks with perfect hindsight give bent to their spleen at a comfortable remove.

But that doesn’t tell the whole story.

MRNA vaccine technology was being rapidly developed in molecular biology labs at universities all over the world whe. I was still in grad school, back in the 1980’s. This isn’t “new” stuff. Once the basic biochemistry was worked out, the template for these vaccines was readily established, and virtually all mRNA vaccines today follow this same template. The beauty of this is that a vaccine for a new virus can be developed fairly quickly by plugging the genetic code for the new virus into the existing mRNA template. This is thousands, maybe millions of times faster and simpler than developing a vaccine by the old methods from the mid20th century.

The first mRNA vaccines were being tested in labs by the mid-90’s. They were trialed for veterinary use by the late 90’s, and some have been in use in veterinary applications for close to 20 years now. None of these vaccines have produced long-term problems in the populations they’re used in, and because all mRNA vaccines work by the same basic mechanism, and because human biology is very similar to bovine and murine and porcine biology, we can safely say that the CoV2 vaccine will be equally safe in the long term.

The other objection I keep hearing is that “these vaccines aren’t FDA approved”. This is true, they aren’t. But FDA approval is not a strong signifier of safety, and absence of FDA approval does not mean a treatment is unsafe. The FDA has approved a goodly number of drugs and treatments that ultimately proved to be disastrous. Thalidomide and diethylstilbestrol are two glaring examples of “FDA approved” drugs that caused horrible birth defects. Similarly, the FDA has still not approved Ivermectin or Fluvoxamine as effective treatments for COVID, despite a large body of evidence showing they are indeed very effective. You need to look at the FDA as basically the medical equivalent to the US Postal Service: they get some basic stuff right, but they’re slow, and they ain’t nowhere near cutting edge.



This is such elementary science, I am frankly embarrassed for people who think that an mRNA virus can alter human DNA. You couldn’t get a passing grade in 10th grade biology if you believed this nonsense. It’s equivalent to thinking that if you piss in the waters of the Mississippi in St Louis that you would contaminate the glaciers in Montana. It’s that stupid.

Look at it this way: the DNA, in the nucleus of a human cell, comprises the chromosomes that carry the human genetic code that makes us the species we are. Portions of the double-stranded DNA in the nucleus are copied in a simple single-strand “shorthand” form called RNA, and these copied RNA strands are the messengers that tell the rest of the cell what to do. RNA isn’t copied back into DNA form, this is a one-way railway track. Once the RNA message is delivered, the RNA is broken down into its components and the components are reused to make more RNA messages , over and over and over again.

The mRNA vaccines work by delivering a “fake” message to certain human cells that cause them to manufacture the CoV2 S-protein, which the cells of the immune system recognize as a foreign protein, and then makes antibodies to it. The vaccine does not interact with our DNA in any way whatsoever. It doesn’t even go into the nucleus (where DNA is located), but does all of its work in the outer parts of the cell in cytoplasmic structures called ribosomes. There is ZERO relationship between the vaccine mRNA and the human genetic code in your DNA. ZERO. It also (probably) interacts with the immune system ‘s T-cells, which incorporate the S-protein into the T-cell-mediated immun response, which is independent of antibodies and far longer-lasting.

After the “fake” mRNA message from the vaccine is used by the human cells for a while, the system plays out and the cells stop making S-protein, and the mRNA fragment is broken down into its components and is reused by the cells like any other piece of RNA. After a few days there are no traces of the vaccine mRNA left in the vaccinated person’s system.

I strongly suggest that folks who want to attack the science of the mRNA vaccines actually learn some science first. It won’t be easy, but with a couple days’ worth of reading textbooks, or heck, just watching decent YouTube videos on the topics of nuclei acid biology and protein synthesis, you’ll be informed enough to realize that 99% of the pseudo-scientific objections to the CoV2 vaccines are utter nonsense.

I linked the VAERS site that has individual cases to look at

Look everyone has an agenda and is going to play a numbers game to make a point. The truth is probably in the middle.

For me, a virus that has a 98% survival rate doesn’t add up to the government’s “urgency “ to get needles in arms.