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Springcove, in my opinion the vaccines are iffy for people who had documented COVID infection. The loose consensus I get from my reading and discussions with other docs is that actual infection likely triggers much more robust immunity on both the antibody side and the cellular immunity side (T-cells).
I know a lot of ex-spurts are advocating the vaccine for folks who have been infected, but their logic escapes me. But in fairness, I haven’t taken a lot of time to dig deeper into this in recent months, so my advice may be out of date. The standard recommendation of the powers that be is that infected persons can take their first dose of vaccine 3+ months after their recovery, and there does not appear to be a higher incidence of vaccine-associated complications in this group. Doc, through a protocol to getting an old, long expired Celebrex prescription renewed I had to do a brief visit to my Doc, was tested, found positive but zero symptoms. I took 3 more tests at his suggestion and was positive for 3 more weeks before going negative. His advice was that in my condition and with no comorbidities to simply hold up on the vax. I’ve followed his advice. FWIW.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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CDC is reporting 6207 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.htmlReports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 339 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths. https://www.openvaers.com/covid-dataThat 6000 plus number is the number I used to calculate .002% risk of death from vax. But I think that number is derived from any death occurring during some time period after injection. Have an aortic aneurysm two days after the shot, you go on the list. Cerebral embolism..list. Fall down the stairs...list. Fatal car accident....list. I am open to correction in this matter. How many actually died due to anaphylaxis or other actual reaction to the vaccine? ETA: I see DocR has addressed this issue while I was typing.
Last edited by Idaho_Shooter; 07/23/21.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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From CDC
34248054 cases
607,684 deaths. (How many of these died because of existing conditions )
@1.77%
Decades of voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us just that.....
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I linked the VAERS site that has individual cases to look at
Look everyone has an agenda and is going to play a numbers game to make a point. The truth is probably in the middle.
For me, a virus that has a 98% survival rate doesn’t add up to the government’s “urgency “ to get needles in arms.
Unless its your Mom, or wife, or child in that 2%! Being cheated out of 10, or 20, or 30, or even possibly 40 years of life because some idiot with no clue but with a stupid agenda convinced you a vaccine was likely to kill you is a real tragedy. My advice: get a clue and then make an INFORMED decision.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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No it’s not pointless. You said originally that this vaccine was covered under The 1988 Act. It is not.
It is covered under 2005 PERP ACT. There is a huge difference.
it was fast tracked w/o due diligence. So unless given protection status under PERP the pharmaceuticals would had been liable. And that’s because the drug isn’t vetted properly.
It may be a huge difference to you, but the results are the same and all vaccines are covered under the 1988 Act if they are fully approved. Which any of these would be if fully approved. I did use the 1988 Act comment prematurely without considering the EUA status and the PREP Act. I will admit that, but the fact remains the same that no new unique legislation was passed for the Covid vaccines as was being implied. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was implied. All I was doing is pointing this out. You also implied that the PREP act had not been used for a vaccine in the past under the EUA. It is true that it hasn't been used nationwide for the obvious reason because we haven't had a nationwide pandemic since the passage in 2005. I pointed out that it wasn't the only application of the PREP act for a vaccine (Ebola). So your point that you are trying to make is that I applied the 1988 Act prematurely due to the EUA status of the Covid vaccines? Does that make you feel better that I acknowledge it was premature and that they are currently covered under the PREP act? No , you miss the points .Words mean things. You implied another’s decision not to take the jab because pharmaceuticals got a pass on liability, as uninformed. That the vaccine would had been w/o liability anyway because of the 1988 Act . And that wasn’t a reason to not take the jab. It would not be covered under the 1988 Act for obvious reasons. The lack of studies. Under PERP 2005 we are the study. So yes, it is a perfectly valid reason to decline the jab. And gvt is sooooo looking out for our best interests...... on liability under 1988 Act We pay for damages via a .75 tax on every vaccine anyway. So gvt put all the chips in big pharmaceuticals table and stuck it up ours. On liability under PERP HHS gets to exempt the drug and then they are judge, jury , and appeals for any claims. If this rigged system doesn’t raise flags for you, then run to the head of the line. Words do mean things and it is uninformed if one thinks the pharmaceutical companies got a special and unique pass on liability with the Covid vaccines. PREP for now and the 1988 Act if any or all get full FDA approval. See DocRocket's post on FDA approval and the meaning behind it. Vaccines under the 1988 Act- have they been fully vetted? Vaccines under PERP - have they been fully vetted ?
Decades of voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us just that.....
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No it’s not pointless. You said originally that this vaccine was covered under The 1988 Act. It is not.
It is covered under 2005 PERP ACT. There is a huge difference.
it was fast tracked w/o due diligence. So unless given protection status under PERP the pharmaceuticals would had been liable. And that’s because the drug isn’t vetted properly.
It may be a huge difference to you, but the results are the same and all vaccines are covered under the 1988 Act if they are fully approved. Which any of these would be if fully approved. I did use the 1988 Act comment prematurely without considering the EUA status and the PREP Act. I will admit that, but the fact remains the same that no new unique legislation was passed for the Covid vaccines as was being implied. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was implied. All I was doing is pointing this out. You also implied that the PREP act had not been used for a vaccine in the past under the EUA. It is true that it hasn't been used nationwide for the obvious reason because we haven't had a nationwide pandemic since the passage in 2005. I pointed out that it wasn't the only application of the PREP act for a vaccine (Ebola). So your point that you are trying to make is that I applied the 1988 Act prematurely due to the EUA status of the Covid vaccines? Does that make you feel better that I acknowledge it was premature and that they are currently covered under the PREP act? No , you miss the points .Words mean things. You implied another’s decision not to take the jab because pharmaceuticals got a pass on liability, as uninformed. That the vaccine would had been w/o liability anyway because of the 1988 Act . And that wasn’t a reason to not take the jab. It would not be covered under the 1988 Act for obvious reasons. The lack of studies. Under PERP 2005 we are the study. So yes, it is a perfectly valid reason to decline the jab. And gvt is sooooo looking out for our best interests...... on liability under 1988 Act We pay for damages via a .75 tax on every vaccine anyway. So gvt put all the chips in big pharmaceuticals table and stuck it up ours. On liability under PERP HHS gets to exempt the drug and then they are judge, jury , and appeals for any claims. If this rigged system doesn’t raise flags for you, then run to the head of the line. Words do mean things and it is uninformed if one thinks the pharmaceutical companies got a special and unique pass on liability with the Covid vaccines. PREP for now and the 1988 Act if any or all get full FDA approval. See DocRocket's post on FDA approval and the meaning behind it. Vaccines under the 1988 Act- have they been fully vetted? Vaccines under PERP - have they been fully vetted ? It is the PREP Act, not PERP Act. People are vetted. Vaccines go through an approval process. In your own words....words matter. https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-...val-process-cber/vaccine-development-101
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I linked the VAERS site that has individual cases to look at
Look everyone has an agenda and is going to play a numbers game to make a point. The truth is probably in the middle.
For me, a virus that has a 98% survival rate doesn’t add up to the government’s “urgency “ to get needles in arms.
Unless its your Mom, or wife, or child in that 2%! Being cheated out of 10, or 20, or 30, or even possibly 40 years of life because some idiot with no clue but with a stupid agenda convinced you a vaccine was likely to kill you is a real tragedy. My advice: get a clue and then make an INFORMED decision. From CDC https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.htmlFLU case in millions per year 2017/2018 45 2018/2019 36 2019/2020 38 If you feel the need during this “epidemic “ go get one. If you feel my decision is uninformed, I will somehow learn to Live with it....
Decades of voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us just that.....
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No it’s not pointless. You said originally that this vaccine was covered under The 1988 Act. It is not.
It is covered under 2005 PERP ACT. There is a huge difference.
it was fast tracked w/o due diligence. So unless given protection status under PERP the pharmaceuticals would had been liable. And that’s because the drug isn’t vetted properly.
It may be a huge difference to you, but the results are the same and all vaccines are covered under the 1988 Act if they are fully approved. Which any of these would be if fully approved. I did use the 1988 Act comment prematurely without considering the EUA status and the PREP Act. I will admit that, but the fact remains the same that no new unique legislation was passed for the Covid vaccines as was being implied. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was implied. All I was doing is pointing this out. You also implied that the PREP act had not been used for a vaccine in the past under the EUA. It is true that it hasn't been used nationwide for the obvious reason because we haven't had a nationwide pandemic since the passage in 2005. I pointed out that it wasn't the only application of the PREP act for a vaccine (Ebola). So your point that you are trying to make is that I applied the 1988 Act prematurely due to the EUA status of the Covid vaccines? Does that make you feel better that I acknowledge it was premature and that they are currently covered under the PREP act? No , you miss the points .Words mean things. You implied another’s decision not to take the jab because pharmaceuticals got a pass on liability, as uninformed. That the vaccine would had been w/o liability anyway because of the 1988 Act . And that wasn’t a reason to not take the jab. It would not be covered under the 1988 Act for obvious reasons. The lack of studies. Under PERP 2005 we are the study. So yes, it is a perfectly valid reason to decline the jab. And gvt is sooooo looking out for our best interests...... on liability under 1988 Act We pay for damages via a .75 tax on every vaccine anyway. So gvt put all the chips in big pharmaceuticals table and stuck it up ours. On liability under PERP HHS gets to exempt the drug and then they are judge, jury , and appeals for any claims. If this rigged system doesn’t raise flags for you, then run to the head of the line. Words do mean things and it is uninformed if one thinks the pharmaceutical companies got a special and unique pass on liability with the Covid vaccines. PREP for now and the 1988 Act if any or all get full FDA approval. See DocRocket's post on FDA approval and the meaning behind it. Vaccines under the 1988 Act- have they been fully vetted? Vaccines under PERP - have they been fully vetted ? It is the PREP Act, not PERP Act. People are vetted. Vaccines go through an approval process. In your own words....words matter. https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-...val-process-cber/vaccine-development-101The question was obviously rhetorical. We both knew the answer. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/vettingthe act or process of appraising or checking a person or thing for suitability, accuracy, or validity
Decades of voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us just that.....
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I'm happy that you all recovered and are doing well.
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I linked to VAERS site that has individual cases to look at
Look everyone has an agenda and is going to play a numbers game to make a point. The truth is probably in the middle.
For me, a virus that has a 98% survival rate doesn’t add up to the government’s “urgency “ to get needles in arms.
Unless its your Mom, or wife, or child in that 2%! Being cheated out of 10, or 20, or 30, or even possibly 40 years of life because some idiot with no clue but with a stupid agenda convinced you a vaccine was likely to kill you is a real tragedy. My advice: get a clue and then make an INFORMED decision. From CDC https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.htmlFLU case in millions per year 2017/2018 45 2018/2019 36 2019/2020 38 If you feel the need during this “epidemic “ go get one. If you feel my decision is uninformed, I will somehow learn to Live with it.... So it is your assertion that "about" 40 out of 1,000,000 who become infected with the flu will die from it? The numbers I have seen support that. So that gives the "flu" a .004% death rate compared to the commonly accepted .2% death rate from C-19. The Covid is 50 times more likely to kill you if you catch it, compared to the "flu". Hundreds of millions get the flu vaccine every year. For something that is 99.996% survivable. Perhaps they wish to avoid the days of pain and misery, lost work days, and chance of infecting loved ones associated with a disease which is 99.996% survivable.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Suck it up take the shot do it for your relatives. You guys are over thinking this thing. Take chill pill. For god sakes it works.
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Tell that to Peru - they've already lost 0.6% of their population to covid. In the US, where there have been almost two tests performed per person in the country, 35 million cases detected and 0.2% of the entire population has died so far. The actual death rate when considering the probable undetected cases ranges from 0.5-1.2%.
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Answers to some of these questions have been published and available for over a year.
1 Every virus invades the cells of your body with its own RNA and causes the cells to replicate the virus. This is how a virus reproduces. It makes the host replicate copies, which often kills the host cell.
This is also how the RNA type vaccines work. The shot introduces a measured amount of RNA which invades cells and causes those cells to reproduce the "S spike protein". The cells do not produce a live, or viable virus. They only produce the "S spike protein" portion of the virus in quantities far less than would be introduced by an actual Covid infection.
The "S spike protein" is injurious to some cells in the body. The body's immune system learns to recognize this injurious protein and then attacks any virus with that protein as part of its structure.
Very true, and thanks for posting this. The sentiment I keep reading in this forum, and hearing from the TeeVee and real life people in the ER and on the streets is that 1) they know less actual science than a kid in 10th grade biology class knows, but 2) the minuscule knowledge they DO have makes them skeptics of the SARS-CoV2 vaccine. In other words, “I know almost nothing, but I think my judgment on this so solid.” There has been ample information on how the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA vaccine works for at least the past 6 months, in scholarly articles for those who have the science background for it, and in various popular science press articles that explain it at a level anyone with a 9th grade education can understand. Yet people still spout nonsense that could have been dispelled by reading such articles at any time. Rant off.
2 how does the vaccine affect organs and tissues?
We have people running around with the vax for well over six months? But honestly there is no valid proof of long term safety.
Well, we can’t say with 100% certainty what the long term effects of the CoV2 vaccines are gonna be in 2 or 5 or 10 years, cuz we ain’t there yet and prognosticating almost always makes a person look foolish when all the folks with perfect hindsight give bent to their spleen at a comfortable remove. But that doesn’t tell the whole story. MRNA vaccine technology was being rapidly developed in molecular biology labs at universities all over the world whe. I was still in grad school, back in the 1980’s. This isn’t “new” stuff. Once the basic biochemistry was worked out, the template for these vaccines was readily established, and virtually all mRNA vaccines today follow this same template. The beauty of this is that a vaccine for a new virus can be developed fairly quickly by plugging the genetic code for the new virus into the existing mRNA template. This is thousands, maybe millions of times faster and simpler than developing a vaccine by the old methods from the mid20th century. The first mRNA vaccines were being tested in labs by the mid-90’s. They were trialed for veterinary use by the late 90’s, and some have been in use in veterinary applications for close to 20 years now. None of these vaccines have produced long-term problems in the populations they’re used in, and because all mRNA vaccines work by the same basic mechanism, and because human biology is very similar to bovine and murine and porcine biology, we can safely say that the CoV2 vaccine will be equally safe in the long term. The other objection I keep hearing is that “these vaccines aren’t FDA approved”. This is true, they aren’t. But FDA approval is not a strong signifier of safety, and absence of FDA approval does not mean a treatment is unsafe. The FDA has approved a goodly number of drugs and treatments that ultimately proved to be disastrous. Thalidomide and diethylstilbestrol are two glaring examples of “FDA approved” drugs that caused horrible birth defects. Similarly, the FDA has still not approved Ivermectin or Fluvoxamine as effective treatments for COVID, despite a large body of evidence showing they are indeed very effective. You need to look at the FDA as basically the medical equivalent to the US Postal Service: they get some basic stuff right, but they’re slow, and they ain’t nowhere near cutting edge.
3 Is protection passed down to offspring?
Absolutely not. No more so than becoming immune to any other virus via infection or inoculation.
Your chromosomal DNA is not altered by the vaccine. Just as your inheritable DNA is not altered by infection with any virus.
This is such elementary science, I am frankly embarrassed for people who think that an mRNA virus can alter human DNA. You couldn’t get a passing grade in 10th grade biology if you believed this nonsense. It’s equivalent to thinking that if you piss in the waters of the Mississippi in St Louis that you would contaminate the glaciers in Montana. It’s that stupid. Look at it this way: the DNA, in the nucleus of a human cell, comprises the chromosomes that carry the human genetic code that makes us the species we are. Portions of the double-stranded DNA in the nucleus are copied in a simple single-strand “shorthand” form called RNA, and these copied RNA strands are the messengers that tell the rest of the cell what to do. RNA isn’t copied back into DNA form, this is a one-way railway track. Once the RNA message is delivered, the RNA is broken down into its components and the components are reused to make more RNA messages , over and over and over again. The mRNA vaccines work by delivering a “fake” message to certain human cells that cause them to manufacture the CoV2 S-protein, which the cells of the immune system recognize as a foreign protein, and then makes antibodies to it. The vaccine does not interact with our DNA in any way whatsoever. It doesn’t even go into the nucleus (where DNA is located), but does all of its work in the outer parts of the cell in cytoplasmic structures called ribosomes. There is ZERO relationship between the vaccine mRNA and the human genetic code in your DNA. ZERO. It also (probably) interacts with the immune system ‘s T-cells, which incorporate the S-protein into the T-cell-mediated immun response, which is independent of antibodies and far longer-lasting. After the “fake” mRNA message from the vaccine is used by the human cells for a while, the system plays out and the cells stop making S-protein, and the mRNA fragment is broken down into its components and is reused by the cells like any other piece of RNA. After a few days there are no traces of the vaccine mRNA left in the vaccinated person’s system. I strongly suggest that folks who want to attack the science of the mRNA vaccines actually learn some science first. It won’t be easy, but with a couple days’ worth of reading textbooks, or heck, just watching decent YouTube videos on the topics of nuclei acid biology and protein synthesis, you’ll be informed enough to realize that 99% of the pseudo-scientific objections to the CoV2 vaccines are utter nonsense. Ok doc, When questions are asked about an issue, especially one that effects one's health, is it not for the good to seek answers? Belittling the questioner says more about the responder than the questioner. Most of us are not holders of sheepskins on molecular biology. Us lowly work a day morons ask to understand. Sanctimonious condescension of those seeking answers is why there is a giant crevasse between those who place themselves in an elite class and all others. If you have answers, show your cards, spare us the insults.
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Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. https://www.openvaers.com/covid-dataHere's a very relevant portion of your quote from VAERS. This database is constantly being cited by anti-vaxxers without any regard to the complexities involved in analysing the data. The vast majority of the 'events' listed are likely to be unrelated to vaccines as you have to do the follow up on the entries and compare the results to the expected numbers of such events in an unvaccinated population. There have been some statistical anomalies indicating very rare clotting problems with the J&J and Astrazeneca vaccines as well as even more rare possible cases of myocarditis (generally mild and eminently treatable) from Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. The data currently indicates that the vaccines are thousands of times safer than taking your chances with the disease. Anyone quoting 'only a 1% death rate' for covid should compare that to the less than 0.0019% death rate for the vaccine. I say less than because that number includes a number of deaths for which causation hasn't been proven.
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Down here we've had more deaths this year from the vaccine (87) than from the virus (5) but they want us to get the jab anyway - our Prime Minister says the death rate from the vaccine is acceptable considering the benefits it provides - WTF? So it appears that there must be an acceptable death rate figure that they are working to, but I doubt it. If they were really doing some proper analysis they might find that the death rate for those under a certain age is acceptable and they might only need to consider isolation protection arrangements for the elderly and health compromised.
Our COVID death rate is heavily suppressed by lock-downs - financial damage to businesses is of no consequence to those leading our country apparently. Where do you come up with this horse schidt? Covid Australia32,588 cases, 916 deaths
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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I have a question for Doc Rocket: What do you think of the discussion about spike proteins generated in response to the mRNA vaccines accumulating in bone marrow and the ovaries? This is coming from Bret Weinstein (evolutionary biologist) and Robert Malone who was apparently the original developer of mRNA vaccines in the late 80s. There is a long discussion of this on Weinstein's Dark Horse podcast. They have concerns that the spike proteins were supposed to stay confined in cells near the injection site but appear to be moving and concentrating in other areas in the body. They also refer to the spike proteins as toxic. These guys are certainly credentialed biologists so I think it's worth considering. I would say that they are not really anti vaccine but are raising concerns that the vaccines may have some problems that need to be addressed. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...-easy-steps/id1471581521?i=1000525032595
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That’s people who died within a specified interval of receiving the vaccine. This is an association only. Causation is not association, and if you can’t grasp the distinction I have no time to waste with you. Aren't a good number of deaths attributed to CV-19 actually deaths not caused by the Corona infection? And 'this is association only?
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Take the vaccine! It eliminates BULLS HIT!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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I linked the VAERS site that has individual cases to look at
Look everyone has an agenda and is going to play a numbers game to make a point. The truth is probably in the middle.
For me, a virus that has a 98% survival rate doesn’t add up to the government’s “urgency “ to get needles in arms.
Unless its your Mom, or wife, or child in that 2%! Being cheated out of 10, or 20, or 30, or even possibly 40 years of life because some idiot with no clue but with a stupid agenda convinced you a vaccine was likely to kill you is a real tragedy. My advice: get a clue and then make an INFORMED decision. Should we not ban swimming pools? Guns? Think how many have been cheated out of 10, 20, 30, 40 or more years. Sugar is obviously a national health problem, along with tobacco and alcohol not to mention happy meals. I haven't ever begun to address automobiles. Why is that some believe they are getting out of life alive?
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I have a question for Doc Rocket: What do you think of the discussion about spike proteins generated in response to the mRNA vaccines accumulating in bone marrow and the ovaries? This is coming from Bret Weinstein (evolutionary biologist) and Robert Malone who was apparently the original developer of mRNA vaccines in the late 80s. There is a long discussion of this on Weinstein's Dark Horse podcast. They have concerns that the spike proteins were supposed to stay confined in cells near the injection site but appear to be moving and concentrating in other areas in the body. They also refer to the spike proteins as toxic. These guys are certainly credentialed biologists so I think it's worth considering. I would say that they are not really anti vaccine but are raising concerns that the vaccines may have some problems that need to be addressed. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...-easy-steps/id1471581521?i=1000525032595Just a thought from a layman. We have always known the S-spike protein was toxic. That is why C-19 makes you sick. The question becomes: how many spike protein molecules are produced in the body by the vaccine vs produced by the virus? Where do they accumulate in either case? How long do they survive in the body after injection or infection?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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