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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Clays cannot however prepare you for what your reaction might be to flushing game birds, only flushing game birds can prepare you for flushing game birds.
. Agree completely...and I'm guilty of the sin. Partially developed from hunting Ruffed Grouse for so many years. You hear the flush, look for the Bird and most times best get a shot off before they are gone..Not always..but most times. Now that I don't hear as well....fortunately or unfortunately....depending on the player...they are much more likely to escape. The cackling flush of a sharptail still ups my heart rate about 20 points. Love it.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
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Once upon a time, Adams County, PA was Pheasant Heaven. No trick at all to limit out in short order on truly wild birds, plus there were some quail and rabbits were plentiful. Been pretty slim pickings since the late 70s or early 80s; planted birds, no quail, not many rabbits.
Changing land use and farming practices, the protection of predators, and maybe the return of turkeys are all factors, I think. Now you need a Pheasant stamp to hunt them, and apparently you can shoot hens too since it’s all put and take. Glad I got to experience the good old days. Have spent some time in the eastern U.S. hunting various states, and one of the factors that has to have affected wild gamebird populations is the abundance of whitetails in many areas. One of my good friends, a custom gunsmith, has been part owner of 800 acres in West Virginia for many years. There's some fairly level ground along a creek, but most is pretty up and down, like a lot of West By God, with plenty of timber. Back when he and his friends first bought the place as a hunting-fishing family get away, he says the ruffed grouse hunting was pretty darn good. The timber is still here, but most of the ground cover gets eaten by deer--and they hunt the deer pretty hard. I have seen plenty of deer on the place, in fact it's hard not to, but cannot remember seeing a ruffed grouse in all of my visits. Years ago, my brother and I spoke with a land manager on one of the gamelands. He said a huge factor was the early cutting of hay, farmers trying to squeeze another crop out. Not only does it remove the cover, but he said the hens stay on the nests and get harvested along with the hay. In the area we hunted, poultry farmers bought up family farms and cleared all the cover to maximize the grain production. My grandparents place, once a mix of cedars, weeds, old apple trees, and a pond, ended up looking like the surface of Venus. No cover, no food, no birds. And my cousin wonders why he doesn't see the game on his place like he used to. He has that place looking like a golf course.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,765
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,765 |
Shot two rounds today with the O/U and the Fastfire. Did much better than I did before without it. It doesn’t keep me from stopping my swing or my other sins, but it helps me see them. I can hunt upland birds with this it seems, not just turkeys or deer with slugs. The A5 will continue to be my target gun though. Not only does it fit me, but shells are available, if very dear.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,115
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,115 |
Optical sights can work well for "wingshooting." whether real birds or clays. Started experimenting with them in the 1990s, and they definitely helped some of my friends (and even me) especially with shotguns that didn't fit perfectly.
That said, they do offend some purists. One of my buddies at the time said they encouraged "bad habits," such as not mounting and cheeking the gun the same way every time. Also took one, mounted on my Remington 870 12-gauge (purchased new from J.C. Penney in 1979, believe it or not), to an informal clays shoot at a friend's place back then. Most of the participants were fans/owners of classic side-by-sides--and most broke more clays with the 870 than they did with their guns--even though they obviously weren't cheeking the 870 very firmly or consistently.
Dunno what all that means, but there it is....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,765
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,765 |
What it means to me is I can shoot a gun that doesn’t necessarily fit all that well and still hit some stuff. This gun, a CZ Redhead Premier All Terrain, is light and handy, and with the sight I can pretty much hunt anything within its range limits. We have some overlap of seasons here, which means I can carry a couple of slugs while hunting birds and pop a deer of opportunity, or even a bear if one happens by. It also is finished in dull green Cerakote, and has swivel studs. Very practical, if not very fetching.
I once owned a very pretty little Ithaca SKB 280E SXS given to me by my brother when he “upgraded” to a straight-grip Superposed. Like the Browning, he had refinished the stock in oil, and also had the receiver rust-blued. Problem was, I struggled to hit anything with it, even those “easy” ringnecks. Funny part was, he had been pretty deadly with the SKB, but never was as good with his upgrade.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Skeet and Skeet wouldn't be my first choice...George is a great guy who has more than a little experience with S.D. Pheasants....
May have to start pulling the handle on my 16 Gauge reloader...Primers are the only problem right now, however friends has enough to share. A 16 ga pheasant gun, should get light modified and improved modified in a fixed choke SxS or O/U field gun. ( 3/8 + 5/8 ) Tighter works, but loose is lost birds. Skeet & Skeet is a 25” Churchill standard for instinct shooters
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
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Captain Charles Askins (Askins the Elder) wrote some good stuff on shotguns and bird hunting as well. If you can find a copy of his 1931 book GAME BIRD SHOOTING it not only has a lot to say about shotguns, dogs, etc. but is great look at what upland bird hunting and waterfowling was like in America during the early 20th century. Askins the Younger also had at least one book out, I have one . A very " interesting take on things for sure..... Cat
scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Addition...And we can't forget that for perhaps 40 years I chased Ruffed Grouse to the extreme..30 to 40 flushes a day in the good times.
30-40 flushes a day doesn’t sound like you hit much of what you were shooting at.
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,115
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,115 |
Hearing a ruffed grouse flush doesn't mean you get a shot--or even see it.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,089
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,089 |
Let alone being humbled by seen flushes that are nigh impossible to hit.
Many years ago I had a hunting pard who couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a scoop shovel. His solution: try different shotguns instead of actually learn to shoot. Grouse score: zero. One day he showed up with an original Winchester M97 trench gun. "The wide pattern should fix things." As we clawed our way through a jungle of white pines a bird rocketed straight up from under his feet. He shot from the hip and took its head clean off, at a distance of maybe 12 feet. From that point on he had found his perfect grouse gun. Never mind the fact that he never killed another grouse, ever.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,865
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,865 |
Thread title sounds like a line from a Roger Miller song.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,914
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,914 |
Let alone being humbled by seen flushes that are nigh impossible to hit.
Many years ago I had a hunting pard who couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a scoop shovel. His solution: try different shotguns instead of actually learn to shoot. Grouse score: zero. One day he showed up with an original Winchester M97 trench gun. "The wide pattern should fix things." As we clawed our way through a jungle of white pines a bird rocketed straight up from under his feet. He shot from the hip and took its head clean off, at a distance of maybe 12 feet. From that point on he had found his perfect grouse gun. Never mind the fact that he never killed another grouse, ever. Never have hunted grouse but if most people would actually pattern their guns with different chokes they would realize that within 10-15 yards there isn't a whole lot of difference in overall spread. The tighter choke will have a hotter center but overall pattern differences don't start opening up until 20sh yards.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 587
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Hearing a ruffed grouse flush doesn't mean you get a shot--or even see it.
"not too grumpy"
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Joined: Mar 2020
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"not too grumpy"
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,115
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Posts: 60,115 |
10gaugemag,
Actually, there can be a definite difference in pattern spread at 15-20 yards, depending on several factors. At 10 yards not so much, but even when ruffed grouse hunting few shots are taken at 10 yards.
Quite a few experienced ruffed grouse hunters prefer a double-barrel with a VERY open choke, combined with a much tighter choke. This was the combination suggested by the late Frank Woolner, a good writer very experienced in hunting ruffed grouse in New England. The reason for the tight-choked second shot was to make sure enough shot got through leaves to kill a bird. After trying this combo myself I like it too, and have hunted ruffs (and other forest grouse) in several states and Canadian provinces.
But I will also note that pattern spread also depends a LOT on the load, in fact often far more than choke. This isn't exactly secret information, but unless somebody actually does pattern their gun it's hard to comprehend.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,810
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,810 |
Addition...And we can't forget that for perhaps 40 years I chased Ruffed Grouse to the extreme..30 to 40 flushes a day in the good times.
30-40 flushes a day doesn’t sound like you hit much of what you were shooting at. Correct on not seeing every Bird and having Birds that you don’t pull the trigger. And then there are days when you just miss…combined with days when it seems easy. Wisconsin had a 5 Bird per day limit…and then 40 flushes per day was easy…if you had to kill 5 to make it a great day…well you went home disappointed more often than not. Can’t post cover pics right now…but when I get home will give you an idea.. Have one Michigan cover pic where a Bud and I put up 50 some Woodcock in a little over an hour. The actual shooting was slim. His Setter pointed a Grouse 4 times or so in a couple hundred yards…it finally flushed when the cover ran out. We heard it…but never saw it. Pa strip mine covers gave a lot more open chances than other States Aspen cuts Had a Springer that we figured brought back somewhere over 200 to us. So we hit a few…and the rest have added to total The old timers said when hunting Grouse, two of the most important things you can take with you is a good pair of legs and ears.
Last edited by battue; 08/20/21.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,810
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,810 |
Addition...And we can't forget that for perhaps 40 years I chased Ruffed Grouse to the extreme..30 to 40 flushes a day in the good times.
30-40 flushes a day doesn’t sound like you hit much of what you were shooting at. Brought back some memories…. Bud and I flushed a Grouse…and it flew down into this gut that went a couple hundred yards. He said let’s follow it up. By the time we made it to the bottom….5-10 minutes….30 some went of that Aspen jungle. Didn’t kill a one and only shot at a couple. (That same hunt, 6 of us and 8 Dogs….hunting in groups of 2 killed 123…and seemed to have left as many as when we arrived. Again….we hit a few. Each pair were flushing at least 40 a day. 120 flushes a day x 5 = 700 flushes total….minimum. Yet only 123 were hit. I guess you are mostly correct.) 7 or 8 get up together…and you have a SxS…two chances are the max you are going to get. 😉 (Gotta go…second day of a shoot…I’ll be working on trying to improve my shooting….however, not much I can do about my ears….🤨)
Last edited by battue; 08/21/21.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,765
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Received my copy of Shotguns for Wingshooting today. Very nice, and autographed by both JB and that woman that lets him live in her house.
My weekend is now planned. Thanks.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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Glad it showed up fine!
That woman who lets me live in her house decided to sign it too, since she took a bunch of the photos!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Who was the Winchester Engineer that did all the studies on shot string with radar and such? He wrote several articles that were really interesting considering the time frame in which he was writing them.
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