Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Hydrostatic Shock

One way to measure force is Newtons Force which is 2.2 pounds times 1 meter per second. Turn bullet weight in grains to killigrams and FPS to meters per second and multiply the two together. Now you have the amount of Newtons force the bullet produces

How does that relate to Fig Newtons?

DF

DF it does, fig newton's are made of low density components and so they are not to heavy. If you walk up to that package of fig newton's s on the counter top pull one out and accidentally drop it on your bare toes it won't hurt to bad but you will notice it. If you had been wearing your steel toe work boots you ll barely notice the impact. So in effect of you give a fig about it then the newton force is applicable. But I digress and have just enough physics to go along with Jordan as he does know what he is talking about. You can tell that when he tells Mike wormer to stop ankle biting. Mb

Jordan, I'm glad you're still here.

I'm sincere ! FIRST - I have no doubt the hi level math jargon you have used IS correct.

I don't have to tell you or mathman that I have NOT studied above Alg I II and Geometry. I did not take
trig or calculus......

So many of the terms y'all have used are ABOVE my head....I suspect others don't understand too.

IF we don't understand your terminology in real life then how are we supposed to apply it to the killing "mechanics"
of hunting ? NO criticism nor sarcasm. For Real.

I'm familiar with a FEW terms y'all have used but in hunting....??..I can't understand how they apply to
FLESH, BLOOD, & BONES -- not yelling just emphasis.


WE all have heard of "apples vs oranges" -------> that's how I see (understand) the comparisons using
sand, wood, dirt, --- vs Animals (flesh, blood, bones, hide).
I honestly don't see how an accurate comparative result can be had.


Now, (honestly) when you, mathman, a surgeon, or astrologer talk OVER our heads-- we don't understand.
No criticism.

I have dealt with people who don't understand auto mechanics or maintainance and they don't understand the terminology.


It's not that I think you are wrong on all of this....I can't see how you can deduce the amount of force used, transferred, or
wasted on an animal.

The mediums are SO diff it doesn't make sense how the math formulas (formuli) really apply.

That's the best I can describe it and I don't want to EXTEND my math level. LOL

No Harm, No Foul

Jerry

Jordan, I'm glad you're still here.

I'm sincere ! FIRST - I have no doubt the hi level math jargon you have used IS correct.

I don't have to tell you or mathman that I have NOT studied above Alg I II and Geometry. I did not take
trig or calculus......

So many of the terms y'all have used are ABOVE my head....I suspect others don't understand too.

IF we don't understand your terminology in real life then how are we supposed to apply it to the killing "mechanics"
of hunting ? NO criticism nor sarcasm. For Real.

I'm familiar with a FEW terms y'all have used but in hunting....??..I can't understand how they apply to
FLESH, BLOOD, & BONES -- not yelling just emphasis.


WE all have heard of "apples vs oranges" -------> that's how I see (understand) the comparisons using
sand, wood, dirt, --- vs Animals (flesh, blood, bones, hide).
I honestly don't see how an accurate comparative result can be had.


Now, (honestly) when you, mathman, a surgeon, or astrologer talk OVER our heads-- we don't understand.
No criticism.

I have dealt with people who don't understand auto mechanics or maintainance and they don't understand the terminology.


It's not that I think you are wrong on all of this....I can't see how you can deduce the amount of force used, transferred, or
wasted on an animal.

The mediums are SO diff it doesn't make sense how the math formulas (formuli) really apply.

That's the best I can describe it and I don't want to EXTEND my math level. LOL

No Harm, No Foul

Jerry

I've been preaching that very thing on this site for years. It's a misnomer, to be sure, but even the concept that it espouses is physically incorrect.


Just because the cells contain liquid does not mean that they are entirely liquid, or that the organs behave as an incompressible liquid. Can you take the lungs or heart in your hands and compress/squish them? If you put the organs in a bucket, do they flow to fill the container? The organs behave like a solid, not an incompressible liquid.


The holes in vital organs are caused by mechanical displacement. Cellular damage can occur by cells rupturing from pressure or mechanical disruption (on a slightly larger scale this can be seen as bruising), but the macroscopic holes you see are caused by mechanical displacement.


That is largely due to velocity being correlated with primary and secondary fragmentation, and the impulse of the interaction between the bullet and the flesh.


Secondary fragmentation doesn't have to be comprised of bone, it can also be made up of other tissue that gets dispersed very quickly as it is pushed out of the bullet's path.

There is some degree of hydraulic pressure in the organs when the bullet passes through, but it's not as large an effect as seen in a homogeneous fluid or semi-fluid medium like water or ballistic gel, due to the multiple boundary conditions in the animal's chest (hide transitions to muscle which transitions to bone, and then there is a transition to some air space, which transitions to lung and heart tissue, which transitions to more muscle and bone and hide before exiting) that don't exist in the homogeneous medium.

I spent a couple of years researching quantum neuroscience as related to consciousness, and during that time I had the opportunity to study and model neuronal networks somewhat extensively. I have come to believe that a bullet


passing sufficiently close to the CNS can cause enough mechanical disruption to send an electrical signal (similar to the "shock wave" explanation) that over-stimulates the brain and causes a loss of nervous control of the muscles (animal falls down) or even a loss of consciousness. This would be similar to a boxer getting hit on the jaw and being knocked down or knocked unconscious.

In my mind, there are two ways animals die via bullets: either the vital organs that supply the brain with oxygen are disrupted and the brain runs out of oxygen, or the CNS is disrupted and the brain is "short-circuited". Sometimes both take place, where the CNS is disrupted and the brain loses control of the body or loses consciousness, followed by being starved of oxygen due to damage to the heart/lungs.

I did see something that has always stuck in my head. Back about 1977 or 78 I was watching over the shoulder of my best HS buddy and he hit a doe at about 80 yards with a 220 grain round nose factory Remington load out of his 740 Remington 30-06 The doe was standing broadside in a soy bean field in pouring down rain. What was remarkable was at the moment of impact the entire deer went white from all the rain soaked fur as it expanded out into the surrounding air. It was a very astonishing sight and the rain in her fur went in every direction over every inch of her body at least two feet. The shocking force to basically dry that deer out in a millisecond was awe inspiring. Not sure what force caused that but it sure looked like it would have scrambled a lot of nerves well before the deer bleed out. She dropped in her tracks