Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Would you ever load hardball for defense?

That's a whole other topic. Full profile wadcutters in a revolver have a stellar reputation in actual usage for deep straight penetration, and with their sharp profile tend to do a good bit of damage along the way. To this day, many don't know that 95% of the JHPs on the market will not expand when fired out of a snubby such as a J Frame with their 1&7/8th"barrel. They in effect become like a round nose bullet and terminal performance is poor generally. Even standard target wadcutters do a much better job from a J Frame, than the typical .38 hollowpoint, unless that load is loaded extremely hot, which then you run into control issues for most people.

I too, often carry wadcutters for my initial load in my old 442, but then use a reload with a bullet profile that is more conducive to fast loading from a speedloader.






Looking at the above pics I realize that my old pocket companion is getting a bit on the worn side. Kind of like its owner.

I carry 147 FP FMJ in my Gersan Regard 9mm at times.
If I had to shoot a threat, I would shoot it until it was no longer a threat.

I always carried the Buffalo Bore Hard Cast Wadcutters in the last J-frame I pocket carried. With a speed loader full of Gold Dot HP’s for ease of reload.

I also carried the Buffalo Bore .44 cal Hard Cast Wadcutters the CA Bulldog I cared for a little while.
They were wicked jackrabbit killers.

I still have 158 grain plusP LSWHP (lead semi wadcutter hollowpoints) in my Airweight j-frame. Same load for the last thirty years.

On the speed strip I have the same thing in Federal Nyclads which I believe have been out of production for a good while. I like the Nyclads because they don’t shed lead in a pocket. Tho I’ll confess I haven’t bothered carrying a reload much.

IIRC fixed sight S&W .38 revolvers are regulated for the standard velocity 158 grain load. PlusP’s ain’t much hotter than that.

9mm Heat Treated 124 Truncated Cone and its WWI revolver opponent, the British 380 aka the 38 Smith and Wesson sporting a pure lead ogival wadcutter 150 grain.

I would never consider hardball ammo in my defense gun. I would use what the police use. Hardball also presents a risk to others in home thru penetration or an innocent bystander if the bullet passes thru. God forbid anyone has to defend themselves in a self defense situation but if you have to, to save your life or the life of innocents you want SD ammo to stop the threat. Case closed.

Any real stats on that actual phenomenon?

When one considers the modern police have used solids longer than anything else deemed "safe", the issue is less reality and more pipe dream.

Wouldn’t shooting hardball for defense be just like someone shooting hard cast for hunting on thin skin game.
Sure hard cast has probably killed more game then HP’s over the past 100 years. But don’t good HP’s do it better and faster?
When your life is on the line I would choose good HP’s every time.

The 4 inch Kimber 45 Auto on my hip, as I type this, is loaded with a 230 +/- grain cast bullet, #2 alloy, with a meplat of the same diameter as the Saeco 058 bullet.
Other times my 45 Autos are loaded with Winchester Win1911 or Winchester USA Ready 230 grain FMJFP load.

What's the per round cost of Federal HST?

What's the cost of a round of handloaded hard cast?

Virtually no civilians who carry high priced defensive ammo actually practices with the same stuff they carry.

The same can't be said for guys who shoot hard cast.

I like the grips; easier to see in a hurry if you have set the gun down somewhere. I dunno how many seconds accumulating into minutes and hours of my life have been wasted searching for black objects around the house, fortunately chiefly cellphones and wallets at this point, and never a handgun in an emergency.

In the same way, wanna lose or forget something in the woods? Get it in RealTree.

Lotta of interesting comments on the topic. In my home their are no loved ones to worry about. They get by my dog they get lead until the threat is gone. Mb

Probably only in something under powered like a .22, .25 or .32 for greater penetration. Logic says that I wouldn't be using any of those for defense anyway because my defensive stuff starts with a .380 and goes to a .38 Special +P, 9mm and .45 and none of them are loaded with hardball ammunition.

Have carried it in duty pistols/revolvers.

I prefer something expanding nowadays, but wouldn't fret much if FMJ was all that were available.

I believe the one-shot stopping stats are somewhere in the low 60% range for 9mm and 45ACP FMJ. That is still lethal.....and who only shoots one??

Yeah, yeah, there are some over-penetration concerns in some situations, but nothing is perfect.

Overpenetration would be the last thing that I would worry about. Misses would be a bigger concern in my opinion

I don't make defense decisions based on perceived motives behind an attackers actions.

Matters not if it's just a confused alkie, dopehead, or some guy angry from a domestic encounter. All that matters is whether or not his actions endanger self or loved ones.

To intentionally shoot a person when you don't fear death or great bodily harm is a crime. I can't make the decision to shoot someone who is annoying or bothersome, and to load a weapon based on this potential happenstance would indicate criminal intent.

Of topic but it might interest some western Montana guys. Anyway we stopped by a pawn shop in Anaconda Montana Saturday, there was a jem of a Colt revolver in there for 650. It was a snub.

Did you get it?

No. That would be incorrect. All hardcast bullets are not shaped like hardball/FMJ ammo.

From a terminal ballistics standpoint, they behave substantially different. Where a FMJ/Hardball bullet tends to slip through causing substantially less permanent tissue damage as compared to other types, various hardcast projectiles do significantly more damage, depending on their shape.

A wide flat meplat such as on this 250 grain 45 ACP Flat Point tends to do quite a bit more damage, as well as penetrate deeper.:



In fact I was in bear country this last weekend (lots and lots of bears around.) and was carrying the 250 grain +p 45 ACPs.




Plus kept a 10MM close at hand for a nightstand gun due to the fact I could put a light on it, since we had a bear that kept pooping right outside the door, every few hours.

I was using a 200 grain hardcast flatpoint in the 10MM:



Semi Wadcutters also do substantially more damage than an FMJ. The tend to cut nice deep clean holes in flesh and do significant damage, as opposed to just slipping through like ball does. Ball can and does break bone when it hits it, but so does a hardcast bullet.

There is a reason why the very vast majority of dedicated handgun hunters use hardcast bullets on big game.

That 150 grain wadcutter is a cool looking sucker. With modern powders, in a strong gun, you could make that sing!