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The book of James is aimed at telling believers to do good works to make their beliefs come alive. It's for believers, not for telling non-believers that they can be saved by works. It's often misinterpreted that way. You don't think James the brother of Jesus might have written that to straighten out the hogwash that Paul was spewing? And then Jesus praised the church at Ephesus for expelling Paul. Then Paul bemoans his expulsion in his letter to Timothy thus verifying Jesus' message in Revelation 2. People who knew much more than you included the letters of Paul in the Bible because they knew them to be true. Peter recognized the validity of Paul's teachings and their harmony with those of Christ.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Is salvation everlasting life, or the position you get in heaven after salvation? 
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Salvation was instantaneous for me.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Regular
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But , a number of times didn’t Jesus say “…. Your faith has saved you…” Like Luke 7:50….? He didn’t say “go start your process of salvation.”
Last edited by TF49; 09/27/21.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This seems very appropriate in this thread............... ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/F3KLw5I.jpg) I think it fits very well in to what our society has come to due to this virus and the fear of it too. Unfortunately, Lewis didn't write that. It's a badly twisted excerpt from the Screwtape Letters. He never wrote anything titled 'An Old Devils Letters to the Young'. So you believe the CIA (snopes) or Fact Check which is owned by Reuters.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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''There is no coming to consciousness without pain'' said Carl Jung. A false belief such as taught by Paul can be awfully hard to turn loose of. I know, I had to after examining him vs. Jesus. It is sort of like but way worse than having to admit you have made a bad investment. I've had to admit that occasionally also. Jesus to Ananias in a vision: Ac 9:16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name." One of Paul's sufferings was seeing the words given to him by the HS rejected by false teachers. It's still going on today. I'm glad you're happy with picking and choosing what parts of the Bible to believe. I don't have that luxury because I believe every last word of the Bible is God breathed and totally true. There are parts I don't understand and translation problems are always present, but the words are true nonetheless. If you're reading Carl Jung, I can see why you have problems believing in the Lord. Jung's teachings in many way parallel the gnostics who Paul fought long and hard during his lifetime.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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People who knew much more than you included the letters of Paul in the Bible because they knew them to be true.
Peter recognized the validity of Paul's teachings and their harmony with those of Christ. Tyrone: More like people with an agenda included Paul's writings. And I'll not believe Peter endorsed the letters of Paul that are included in the bible. There is no indication that Peter ever read those screeds attributed to Paul. And 2nd Peter 3:15-16 are obvious additions to Peter's writing by a 3rd party.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I believe that from the moment someone truly believes that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that God has raised Him from the dead, that they receive salvation. And that the only condition to receiving it is truly believing and truly accepting it. And that good works are not required to merit, maintain, or prove it. But they are part of following Jesus. I believe salvation to be eternal, regardless of future actions...including sins, unbelief, and even apostasy...though believers who do these things will face God’s admonishment. To me, the extension of God’s grace is wholly done by Him alone and we have no part in it beyond truly believing and truly receiving it.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Outfitter
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But , a number of times didn’t Jesus say “…. Your faith has saved you…” Like Luke 7:50….? He didn’t say “go start your process of salvation.” Of course not. You are either going to Heaven or Hell. But there are levels of the Heavenly beatific vision. For instance, it highly unlikely that you or I are going to have the same level of closeness to God as say, John the Baptist. I illustrate it as being at a concert. Yes, everyone in the building is "at the concert" but some people have the cheap seats, some front row and the fortunate few get backstage passes. That's why Paul tells us to keep running the race. If you aim for just the minimum, you will invariably fall short.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Campfire Tracker
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Condemnation for the mere condition of a lack of conviction is petty and childish. I don’t believe you can make a biblical case for your statement. I think you’ve not got the right idea…..trying to keep it real simple…you have a relationship with your Creator or you don’t. If you don’t want a relationship with God, tragic, but that is your choice …..No relationship with God before your death…no relationship after your death. No relationship with the Creator for “eternity.” It's basic morality. We as human beings can see that condemning someone to death or torment on the basis of lack of conviction as excessive and morally and ethically unsound. We don't kill people over what they don't believe. Do we show a greater tolerance toward those of other beliefs or lack of conviction than God? Are we more reasonable than God? So, you simply regurgitate your previous thesis …. Ok…why do you ….apparently…. believe that “we don’t kill people over what they don’t believe? Look around… what do you see in the world? I suspect you are blinded. Surely you are that unaware….. well, maybe you are…. Further, why do you believe that ….apparently….that Jesus….would condemn someone for a “lack of conviction?” I don’t see anything in the Bible that says that people are condemned for having a “lack of conviction.” You are just making this stuff up. Btw…. When you stand before your Creator, you will have “no excuse.” Like I said…. If one does not want a relationship with his Creator, that is tragic. No relationship with God…before your death….. then no relationship with God after your death….. and no relationship for “eternity.” I'm not regurgitating anything. Making the accusation is your means of defense. You really do know that killing someone over their lack of conviction is an intolerant, immoral act. The act of an intolerant despot, a dictator. I wouldnt do it. Would you?
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Campfire Outfitter
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People who knew much more than you included the letters of Paul in the Bible because they knew them to be true.
Peter recognized the validity of Paul's teachings and their harmony with those of Christ. Tyrone: More like people with an agenda included Paul's writings. And I'll not believe Peter endorsed the letters of Paul that are included in the bible. There is no indication that Peter ever read those screeds attributed to Paul. And 2nd Peter 3:15-16 are obvious additions to Peter's writing by a 3rd party. Peter and Paul knew each other quite well. They spent a lot of time in the same city, Rome. They conversed often. What verse did you find where Peter condemns Paul? That stuff about having an agenda is a real headscratcher. Exactly what agenda are you referring to?
Politics is War by Other Means
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Campfire Regular
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But , a number of times didn’t Jesus say “…. Your faith has saved you…” Like Luke 7:50….? He didn’t say “go start your process of salvation.” Of course not. You are either going to Heaven or Hell. But there are levels of the Heavenly beatific vision. For instance, it highly unlikely that you or I are going to have the same level of closeness to God as say, John the Baptist. I illustrate it as being at a concert. Yes, everyone in the building is "at the concert" but some people have the cheap seats, some front row and the fortunate few get backstage passes. That's why Paul tells us to keep running the race. If you aim for just the minimum, you will invariably fall short. Yep, I pretty much agree with your clarification….. Good.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Regular
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Condemnation for the mere condition of a lack of conviction is petty and childish. I don’t believe you can make a biblical case for your statement. I think you’ve not got the right idea…..trying to keep it real simple…you have a relationship with your Creator or you don’t. If you don’t want a relationship with God, tragic, but that is your choice …..No relationship with God before your death…no relationship after your death. No relationship with the Creator for “eternity.” It's basic morality. We as human beings can see that condemning someone to death or torment on the basis of lack of conviction as excessive and morally and ethically unsound. We don't kill people over what they don't believe. Do we show a greater tolerance toward those of other beliefs or lack of conviction than God? Are we more reasonable than God? So, you simply regurgitate your previous thesis …. Ok…why do you ….apparently…. believe that “we don’t kill people over what they don’t believe? Look around… what do you see in the world? I suspect you are blinded. Surely you are that unaware….. well, maybe you are…. Further, why do you believe that ….apparently….that Jesus….would condemn someone for a “lack of conviction?” I don’t see anything in the Bible that says that people are condemned for having a “lack of conviction.” You are just making this stuff up. Btw…. When you stand before your Creator, you will have “no excuse.” Like I said…. If one does not want a relationship with his Creator, that is tragic. No relationship with God…before your death….. then no relationship with God after your death….. and no relationship for “eternity.” I'm not regurgitating anything. Making the accusation is your means of defense. You really do know that killing someone over their lack of conviction is an intolerant, immoral act. The act of an intolerant despot, a dictator. I wouldnt do it. Would you? Like I said…. You regurgitate and again avoid the real issue……so, I will ask it again …. Your implication is ….apparently….that God kills “someone over their lack of conviction.” This is just pure heresy….. and you don’t even see that. So, what’s your answer? A cogent response or just more mind vomit?
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What sect excludes Paul from the Bible?
Politics is War by Other Means
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Campfire Tracker
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Condemnation for the mere condition of a lack of conviction is petty and childish. I don’t believe you can make a biblical case for your statement. I think you’ve not got the right idea…..trying to keep it real simple…you have a relationship with your Creator or you don’t. If you don’t want a relationship with God, tragic, but that is your choice …..No relationship with God before your death…no relationship after your death. No relationship with the Creator for “eternity.” It's basic morality. We as human beings can see that condemning someone to death or torment on the basis of lack of conviction as excessive and morally and ethically unsound. We don't kill people over what they don't believe. Do we show a greater tolerance toward those of other beliefs or lack of conviction than God? Are we more reasonable than God? So, you simply regurgitate your previous thesis …. Ok…why do you ….apparently…. believe that “we don’t kill people over what they don’t believe? Look around… what do you see in the world? I suspect you are blinded. Surely you are that unaware….. well, maybe you are…. Further, why do you believe that ….apparently….that Jesus….would condemn someone for a “lack of conviction?” I don’t see anything in the Bible that says that people are condemned for having a “lack of conviction.” You are just making this stuff up. Btw…. When you stand before your Creator, you will have “no excuse.” Like I said…. If one does not want a relationship with his Creator, that is tragic. No relationship with God…before your death….. then no relationship with God after your death….. and no relationship for “eternity.” I'm not regurgitating anything. Making the accusation is your means of defense. You really do know that killing someone over their lack of conviction is an intolerant, immoral act. The act of an intolerant despot, a dictator. I wouldnt do it. Would you? Like I said…. You regurgitate and again avoid the real issue……so, I will ask it again …. Your implication is ….apparently….that God kills “someone over their lack of conviction.” This is just pure heresy….. and you don’t even see that. So, what’s your answer? A cogent response or just more mind vomit? And once again I point out that your accusation of 'regurgitation' is your means of defense. Lack of conviction means not having faith in Jesus. And what is the penalty of not having faith in Jesus or believing in the reality of the bible god? Is the atheist forgiven and granted salvation? You understand that atheists are justified by absence of evidence, and if evidence for the existence of a God or gods comes to light, they would be convinced. What then? Not to late for salvation once presented with the reality of God?
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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HE doesnt want you to get evidence. HE wants you to have faith. Your evidence will come too late, like a smoker who coughs up blood one day.
If God gave evidence, all would do as He says from a point of fear of Hell. He wants us to follow Him and put our desires behind our love for Him, as he did us by giving us Jesus who He loved.
Last edited by jaguartx; 09/27/21.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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HE doesnt want you to get evidence. HE wants you to have faith. Your evidence will come too late, like a smoker who coughs up blood one day. . . . . . . . 🎤
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Salvation comes as a flash. You are or you aren't and the difference is the moment you accept Jesus as Lord. Once you're saved, however, what you become in God's heaven is a process. You will be rewarded for your efforts and those can take a long time to develop.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Now, RC and Happy, what about this scripture
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
I repeat,
the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Here it is Jaguar. Matthew 7 I always look to see who it's addressing because it makes a difference if Jesus is talking to born again believers or rebuking the devil, for instance. "15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." It sounds like someone I just asked if he was a pastor. Jesus addresses the people about false prophets here that are not his sheep. Jaguar, we know that they are unbelievers from the get go. Then we get to your verse. "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Jesus will hear their appeals of WHY THEY think they are deserving of salvation. Here's the list. A. "saith unto me, Lord, Lord" Many say they made Jesus"Lord of their lives", but that is not God's way of salvation. Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." God the Father made His Son Lord. Every preacher on TV would tell people something like "make Jesus Lord of your life and submit to His Lordship...." Or something like that. Rejected by Christ B. " have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name " That is what I have read and heard many times. How many preachers have you heard give some new prophecy about some politicians or world events, all in the name of the Lord. There's the warning and curse to them found at the end of Revelation. I'll let you look that up since I'm very tired right now....last couple verses. C. "and in thy name have cast out devils?" They could've been anyone who was from the sons of Sceva to Rosemary's baby. I've seen a video of all kinds of Demon possession in Africa and the pastor's had a false gospel. There are those who cast them out, but not saved. I listen to the gospel message and that's the only way Jesus accepts . He doesn't care if the person is an apostle of the apastolics or RCs. That never was the will of the Father for entry into heaven. D. "and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Do good works save anyone Jaguar? I think you know that they don't. CORRECT ANSWER IS: Titus 3:5. " Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us." Ephesians 2:8,9. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. You see what they were trusting in? Their good works. The same can be said for "repenting of your sins" or baptism....good works.....Not acceptable to Jesus or the Father. I hope you are still with me. I'm about done. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." What is the will of the Father for our salvation? Jesus said, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
So what is the Father's will to be saved? The way we see Jesus today is by reading the Bible about Him. He is the rising Savior, the Christ, the Son of God. (Details in links below) It's midnight in my time zone and I'm zoned out. 😴 PM for discussion, questions etc and I will be there tomorrow. Have a good night my friend. HC Instead of eating a dick, can you try to suck start a 12 gauge? Maybe use your big toe if your arms aren’t long enough. The good news of my Lord Jesus Christ really offends you. Perhaps my Father will care to effect your life in such a way that you will not consider it coincidence, so you will consider Christ..... perhaps not. I will ask. If you keep inviting that demon to crawl back into you, he might eventually tell YOU to do just that. What? Are you capable of communicating like a human? I think it's far more accurate to say that people like you offend him.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Hank Williams, 'Lord, build me a cabin in the corner Glory Land."
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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