Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Seawolf Class Sub hits something in the South China Sea...

Old Hat, the current thought is that they probably hit an uncharted undersea mountain, not another sub. That can only be characterized as an accident, not a mistake. Assuming, of course, that the mountain theory is correct.
We've now heard from at least two genuine sub experts in this thread, both of whom contradict your totally uninformed ideas. A wise man would now withdraw in silence.

I retired from a career in the Fast Attack Submarine Navy and just got home from a reunion of shipmates that I served with on an attack submarine with over 40 years ago. USS Dace SSN-607, a Thresher Class submarine and my first ship. Honorable men and their spouses at that reunion. The public has no idea what attack submarines are called on to do and there’s a reason for that. After becoming a Chief when I had young sailors report into my division I’d tell them that “You aren’t here to earn college credit through the G.I. Bill. You’re here to crew an undersea warship built to kill men and blow [bleep] up. If you don’t learn to do your job better than your enemy, they will kill you or blow your [bleep] up. Keep that in mind” Attack submarines go where they want, when they want, as they want in all the worlds oceans, including under the ice at the top of the world. They are the original stealth weapon. Attack submarines collect intelligence on America’s adversaries and enemies among many other things. To do that you have to be where America’s adversaries are, when they are there, sometimes close aboard. It can’t be done sitting on the couch wringing your hands or from a comfortable distance. Attack submarines go “in harms way” in service of their Country. Proudly. To say that Connecticut’s collision was a “blunder” displays absolute ignorance about the mission that attack submarines are called on to do. There are attack submarines on patrol in all of the world’s oceans right now and every minute of every day. 24/7/365. They do it while you’re sleeping, sitting in the woods with your favorite rifle, and are celebrating Christmas with your loved ones. You’re welcome. As the old submariner’s saying goes, “I’ve got more time sitting on the shytter at test depth than…” Oldhat has even spent thinking about Attack Submarine operations. GMAFB about the analysis of what happened to USS Connecticut. She was on a mission “Of strategic importance to the National Security Interests of the United States of America,” and she wasn’t crewed by idiots. That’s all you need to know, or probably will ever know. And that’s as it should be. Got any scratches on your favorite hunting gun? If you take it out of the cabinet and use it hard I’m betting that you do. Attack Submarines are one of the American military’s favorite hunting guns. They get taken out of the cabinet, sent to sea in harms way and get used hard. We should be proud of that, not talk [bleep]
about something we know nothing about. And for the record, I’ve heard “One single ping” used in a strategic situation exactly zero times. It’s a great line for a movie, that is all.

Oldhat,
Do you believe that the world is at peace?
Do you believe that the US Military is not in engagement with anyone, anywhere currently?

I like this kind of discussion. The US is at peace. We have no declared war with a peer foe.

So the gist of your reasoning is that a dangerous world, intense training, high risk missions and cat and mouse engagements on the high seas is equivalent to combat. I disagree. Do you really think WW2 vets would call what the current navy does war?

Do you believe the peace time military is a meritocracy?

Submarines never bump or "ram" each other intentionally. Ever. Sea pressure is 44lbs/square inch/100 feet of depth. Much better to keep the green monster on the outside of the people tank. Surprised that anyone would even consider it a possibility.

Sorry you don't get the "used gun" vs safe queen analogy. I type too slow to explain it in detail.

Submarines also don't "warn" other submarines, or anyone else, of their position. remaining undetected is the foundation of every mission. Ping is the correct term, to ping is to be detected.

An honest question Oldhat, You ever serve on active duty in theater?

How does a sub hit an undersea mount? Maybe I missed this somewhere in the thread. Do they not have some sort of radar to detect these things or are they running blind based on charts to stay undetected?

Hypothetically, do you think ramming an enemy sub is a pro move during peace time?

Maybe "ping" is not the term of art for submariners, but lets use it as a descriptive for warning your enemy that you have the more sophisticated tech and have the "draw" on them. I wonder if pings are used in tactical situations during peace time.

Look at this another way. Capt. X is driving his sub track Captain Won Hung Lo's boat. Tensions are high in that area and Capt. X does your "One ping only." Capt. One Hung Lo thinks, Holy Chit, I'm being attacked and reacts accordingly. One would have to assume it's a case of chit seriously hitting the fane and the first shots of what could be the last ever world war for a few thousand years. Think about that scenario for a while.
Paul B.

I like this kind of discussion. The US is at peace. We have no declared war with a peer foe.

So the gist of your reasoning is that a dangerous world, intense training, high risk missions and cat and mouse engagements on the high seas is equivalent to combat. I disagree. Do you really think WW2 vets would call what the current navy does war?

Do you believe the peace time military is a meritocracy?

I'm not a moron. I'm not going to play in traffic. I am certainly going to let the navy run the navy, obviously.

My only point is I can't in any scenario see how this was not a major blunder.

If you read my first mention of ping you will see I never suggested pings were done as warnings. I repeat, I used the ping comment to point out the ill-logic of intentional ramming.

So the experienced here seem to say that whatever happened was a mistake, as in unintentional, where people seem to get all sensitive is as to whether there was any malpractice involved in the mistake. Yes, I know, big balls and all, and we don't know and the official inquiry will determine that and we won't ever know. We will see side effects, though, from which we can infer.

I'm glad everyone is safe.

As a midshipman, I spent an afternoon aboard an attack boat, pierside at Norfolk. Very interesting but it didn’t take long for me to think “no way”. 😊

How does a sub hit an undersea mount? Maybe I missed this somewhere in the thread. Do they not have some sort of radar to detect these things or are they running blind based on charts to stay undetected?

A guy that will strap himself into a veritable rocket so tight it has a 5"8" height limit and then travel mach 1 at a mile in the air wouldn't spend a month or so in a sub?!