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Well, let’s look at that for an instant. With a single action revolver, for the actor to be the last line of defense, he is going to have to spin the chamber past the loading gate on every cartridge. If he does that, how is the prop man going to line up the correct cylinder as you say? For an actor who is most likely a non gun guy, he is going to get the pistol, inexpertly check it, then probably have to hand it back to the prop guy again to get it right before shooting the scene.
In a normal situation, the first tell on a revolver is seeing the rims at the end of the cylinder. But that wouldn’t work with dummy rounds. So now your back to having the actor spin the cylinder. Maybe he looks at five chambers and not six. Maybe he is tired and missed the one.
The actor could load the gun with the prop man's assistance in lining up the cylinders. That way there'd be 2 sets of eyes on each cartridge too. The point is that gun handling in movies is inherently unsafe. You’re going to be doing things that an actual gun owner would never do. And the one thing that probably just isn’t accounted for on a professional movie set is an ACTUAL live round. Everything I’ve see on has the movie people referring to a blank as a “live round”. This was apparently a real 44-40 cartridge. How does that even happen? Why was there a live round within a mile of this set? That’s going to be outside of the experience of every actor in Hollywood on a movie set. It isn’t even something most of them would even contemplate. A hot blank, yeah, maybe. But a live round mixed in with some dummies? Yeah, no.
And for everyone who is on here saying that they would never point a real firearm at someone even with blanks, I’m just going to assume and know you are lying if you’ve been in the Army within the last forty years or so. Amen to all of that!! I understand it would have taken extra time to set up, but couldn't the camera have been remotely operated? For rehearsal, just take a few stills? Alec could have backed up to an "X" in the dust that was pre-positioned.
Politics is War by Other Means
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It appears the armorer was a 24 year old "gunsmith" that said she didn't feel she was ready for the job. Apparently she wasn't. There's lots of young people that know their stuff. Unfortunately, self-assurance usually only comes with age.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Easy to bag on Baldwin. He’s a douchebag.
But the puzzle may really be, on a movie set, when there are scenes wherein the muzzle is, by plan/script, pointed at the camera, or pointed at an individual, what then is considered unsafe? So, in movie making, it’s not as simple as we make it while hunting or sport shooting, as to simply muzzle-control and all will be fine even should there be an error made in handling.
What i wonder is, what was Baldwin DOING when this firearm fired? Was he in a scene where he was instructed to be pointing the revolver (?) directly where he was, and instructed to be pulling the trigger in the shot? Can’t blame him, then. The firearm’s prep by the armorer and whatever safety protocols they have, are at fault in that scenario.
On the other hand, if he was f’ing around with said revolver, outside the scene/filming, or, in the scene but not pointing the weapon where he was instructed to/expected to per training, then yeah, the death is on him due negligence, any armorer’s “mistake” being no excuse.
Thus far, all i’ve read is the scapegoating of the armorer. It’s only human to blame someone else in an event like this, at least initially kneejerk in the shick of what happened, and particularly if one is a Hollywood self-absorbed douchebag who hates guns, no doubt. But, be interesting to hear eventually WHAT the real context of the shooting was, per above.
Golldammed motion detector lights. A guy can’t even piss off his porch in peace any more.
"Look, I want to help the helpless. It's the clueless I don't give a [bleep] about." - Dennis Miller on obamacare.
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And for everyone who is on here saying that they would never point a real firearm at someone even with blanks, I’m just going to assume and know you are lying if you’ve been in the Army within the last forty years or so.
The BFA on the end is red, easily visible, and it's that way for a reason. Oh, so you’re saying that violating one of the central tenets of firearms safety is okay under certain highly regulated conditions? I'm saying we trained with them in the Corps and didn't kill each other by accident. We understood what we were doing, why we were doing it, and used a visible device that didn't allow love ammo too be fired or the end of the barrel. If you were dumb enough to snuggle a live round, load it, and shoot it with a BFA on your rifle, YOU were gonna be the one getting hurt........ So violating one of the central tenets of gun safety is okay as long as it’s regulated and no one gets hurt? Got it. It's called training. I'll wait for your detailed explanation of how you propose to have a CAX without anyone pointing a weapon at anyone else. Or maybe you just think the military should have more gender studies safety briefs and not train. 🙄 It’s called making a movie as realistically as possible with gun play involved. I’ll give you an explanation on that as soon as you give me one on how an actor can do everything required without to some degree relying on someone else with regard to gun safety and doing a few things that would never be done in a normal gun handling situation.
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--- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE --- A Magic Time To Be An Illegal In America---
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It appears the armorer was a 24 year old "gunsmith" that said she didn't feel she was ready for the job. Apparently she wasn't. There's lots of young people that know their stuff. Unfortunately, self-assurance usually only comes with age. I read online that she is Thell Reed's daughter. He is quite well known as a quick-draw shooter.
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And for everyone who is on here saying that they would never point a real firearm at someone even with blanks, I’m just going to assume and know you are lying if you’ve been in the Army within the last forty years or so.
The BFA on the end is red, easily visible, and it's that way for a reason. Oh, so you’re saying that violating one of the central tenets of firearms safety is okay under certain highly regulated conditions? I'm saying we trained with them in the Corps and didn't kill each other by accident. We understood what we were doing, why we were doing it, and used a visible device that didn't allow love ammo too be fired or the end of the barrel. If you were dumb enough to snuggle a live round, load it, and shoot it with a BFA on your rifle, YOU were gonna be the one getting hurt........ So violating one of the central tenets of gun safety is okay as long as it’s regulated and no one gets hurt? Got it. It's called training. I'll wait for your detailed explanation of how you propose to have a CAX without anyone pointing a weapon at anyone else. Or maybe you just think the military should have more gender studies safety briefs and not train. 🙄 It’s called making a movie as realistically as possible with gun play involved. I’ll give you an explanation on that as soon as you give me one on how an actor can do everything required without to some degree relying on someone else with regard to gun safety and doing a few things that would never be done in a normal gun handling situation. ???? Where did I say any of that? I'm just shocked the 24y/o diversity hire didn't pan out......
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And for everyone who is on here saying that they would never point a real firearm at someone even with blanks, I’m just going to assume and know you are lying if you’ve been in the Army within the last forty years or so.
The BFA on the end is red, easily visible, and it's that way for a reason. Oh, so you’re saying that violating one of the central tenets of firearms safety is okay under certain highly regulated conditions? I'm saying we trained with them in the Corps and didn't kill each other by accident. We understood what we were doing, why we were doing it, and used a visible device that didn't allow love ammo too be fired or the end of the barrel. If you were dumb enough to snuggle a live round, load it, and shoot it with a BFA on your rifle, YOU were gonna be the one getting hurt........ So violating one of the central tenets of gun safety is okay as long as it’s regulated and no one gets hurt? Got it. It's called training. I'll wait for your detailed explanation of how you propose to have a CAX without anyone pointing a weapon at anyone else. Or maybe you just think the military should have more gender studies safety briefs and not train. 🙄 It’s called making a movie as realistically as possible with gun play involved. I’ll give you an explanation on that as soon as you give me one on how an actor can do everything required without to some degree relying on someone else with regard to gun safety and doing a few things that would never be done in a normal gun handling situation. ???? Where did I say any of that? I'm just shocked the 24y/o diversity hire didn't pan out...... She wasn’t a diversity hire. Her dad is the best firearms guy in Hollywood. She got the job because it was assumed she was taught well by him.
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there is absolutely no reason for a live round to be anywhere near a movie set.
My diploma is a DD214
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She wasn’t a diversity hire. Her dad is the best firearms guy in Hollywood. She got the job because it was assumed she was taught well by him.
You would think there has to be considerable training and certifications to work in the business.
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For a live round to get there was some sort of incredible, almost inexplicable frickup, to some intentional and evil schit. As an accident, it’s so hard to explain that the intentional almost looks more likely.
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Easy to bag on Baldwin. He’s a douchebag.
But the puzzle may really be, on a movie set, when there are scenes wherein the muzzle is, by plan/script, pointed at the camera, or pointed at an individual, what then is considered unsafe? So, in movie making, it’s not as simple as we make it while hunting or sport shooting, as to simply muzzle-control and all will be fine even should there be an error made in handling.
What i wonder is, what was Baldwin DOING when this firearm fired? Was he in a scene where he was instructed to be pointing the revolver (?) directly where he was, and instructed to be pulling the trigger in the shot? Can’t blame him, then. The firearm’s prep by the armorer and whatever safety protocols they have, are at fault in that scenario.
On the other hand, if he was f’ing around with said revolver, outside the scene/filming, or, in the scene but not pointing the weapon where he was instructed to/expected to per training, then yeah, the death is on him due negligence, any armorer’s “mistake” being no excuse.
Thus far, all i’ve read is the scapegoating of the armorer. It’s only human to blame someone else in an event like this, at least initially kneejerk in the shick of what happened, and particularly if one is a Hollywood self-absorbed douchebag who hates guns, no doubt. But, be interesting to hear eventually WHAT the real context of the shooting was, per above. From what I’ve read Baldwin was rehearsing a scene while the crew was setting up the cameras that would be operating remotely while filming. He did a run through first where nothing happened, the second time the gun fired towards the camera with the people there.
Last edited by Bry; 10/23/21.
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For a live round to get there was some sort of incredible, almost inexplicable frickup, to some intentional and evil schit. As an accident, it’s so hard to explain that the intentional almost looks more likely. Somebody here stated that there were reports of the "original" armorer shooting live rounds between scenes, over a hill off the filming set prior to the incident. I'm sure the truth will come out at some point, the pizzed off Union members won't protect the guilty party that's for sure. But live ammo on a film set is mind boggling at best.
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As much as I dislike the guy, I hope for Alex sake it was an accident. I wonder if any phone messages will appear like he left his daughter.
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I detest Baldwin and the guy deserves all crap flung at him regardless if he is responsible or not.
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News says live round in Hollywood lingo doesn't necessarily mean primer, powder and bullet. It means it'll go pow in some way. It'll be interesting to learn what the projectile actually was.
Living in a world of G17s and 700s, wishing for P7s and 202s
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There shouldn't be live rounds on the set, period. If the projectiles needs to be seen in the cylinder, empty case, no live primer loads only..
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NEVER POINT A GUN at something U don't want to kill!!!!!
That idiot is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.
MOLON LABE
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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NEVER POINT A GUN at something U don't want to kill!!!!!
That idiot is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. my pistols that are on or in my dresser on a nightstand by the bed are always pointed towards the outside wall even if unloaded, creeps me out if they are pointed towards me just laying there.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Who posted the video of the guy trying to kill a high point? Concrete in the barrel, quick steel in the barrel, drilled a couple of holes and put nails through the barrel... Most every one sent a projectile (or some portion thereof) and the obstruction through a target at 7yds.. That little cross they put in cap guns and starter pistols is not something to bet your life on...
There is also the story about the guy that created the "Mares Leg" hollywood shortened lever action...
-OMotS
"If memory serves fails me..." Quote: ( unnamed) "been prtty deep in the cooler todaay " Television and radio are most effective when people question little and think even less.
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