Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Sir Ron !

you are not only a gun expert but I see that you are a good hunter

great, keep up the good works

Yes, bled promptly, the meat was tasty for a mature buck in the rut.
I saute'ed some diced tenderloin with onions and mushrooms for my supper tonight.
It was to die for, said the buck.

smallfry, you have shown excellent judgement on the .450 Rigby thread.
It deserves recognition by membership in the Knights of the .458 Winchester Magnum Brotherhood.
Choose your sir name please.

That thread does have some interesting material that could be quoted here,
to harken back to the days when the .458 WinMag needed defending.
Much has been debunked since then.

Recognizing the greatness of the .458 WinMag does not have to be a chilling effect on commerce.
Sure, it may sometimes stifle the sale of a lesser known .458-caliber rifle and ammunition,
but it also spurs the proliferation of rifles for the .458 WinMag and its ammunition and components.
And one can still own and play with all the others too.
Have your cake and eat it too.
I like your idea of turning an FN/SC/Portugal M70 .338 WinMag into a .458 WinMag.
Now that I have realized it only takes an unblocking of the rear of the magazine and a shortening of the bolt-stop-ejector,
I will do that too, soon as the GUNSMITH gets caught up on his backlog, for I have a .500 Jeffery languishing there at the
GUNSHOP & SPA FOR WAYWARD RIFLES.
That one is just for fun, not a serious rifle like any .458 WinMag is.
I need the GUNSMITH to re-barrel the M70 .338 to .458 WinMag.
I can do the magazine unblocking and bolt-stop-ejector shortening myself if need be.
Even a late model .30-06 M70 can be used by adding on the bolt face enlargement by GUNSMITH.
No milling of action bridge needed for up to 3.6" COL.

Sir Bob,
Your latest blog on efficiency of the straight-walled cartridges was magnificent.
Nice one on the 9.3x62mm Mauser also, for the week before.
A leade-only, long-throated chamber (CIP) makes it an older brother of the .458 WinMag,
and part of why it too is so efficient, still here since 1905, like the .404 Jeffery.
Or was the .404 Jeffery (no throat to speak of) actually born in 1904 ? Probably so.
Otherwise the 9.3x62mm Mauser would be the first-ever fully competent magazine repeater for BIG GAME.
Stiff competition for that title.

Sir Dennis,
Buy a donkey for the flowers, much appreciated.
Remember we outgrew the Round Table a while back.
It is now a Square Table that can be expanded as membership grows
by adding custom fit leaves on two sides to keep it square into infinity.
Long live the .458 Winchester Magnum !
The Mission became The Crusade, long since won.
Now we are Knights of the .458 Winchester Magnum Brotherhood,
secure in our peace, all battles won,
the Hun has gone on the run.

Sir Tony,
Now that is funny !
Heart attack indeed !
The heart was attacked by a 400-gr/.458 TSX from Buffalo Bore !
Buy a donkey for the much appreciated flowers for the buck,
who died of a heart attack while chasing a doe.

Congrats on your new status as Grandpa.

Sir Meplat,
Buy a donkey for the flowers to you too.
So flattering as to be hilarious though it may be,
I do enjoy a good joke.
Keep up the good work.

From the .450 Rigby thread:

Riflehunter said, in black, my comments in red:

If the standard .458 WM chamber is long-throated
... Yes, it is famously long throated as the standard SAAMI chambering ...
and modified
... only the ammunition is modified, to be precise, no modifications to the standard SAAMI chamber ...
so that it effectively becomes a magnum-length cartridge
... we call that the .458 WM+ "wildcatted ammunition" which is not limited to lower pressure and shorter length than the SAAMI .458 Lott ...
(so as to hold more powder and reach 2300 fps),
... we assume you are speaking of 500-grain bullet at 2300 fps, to be more specific ...
wouldn't it be better to have the case longer so that it fits the standard cannelure of the bullets that are now sticking out further, rather than cut a new cannelure further down the projectile?
... Take for example the 500-gr TSX that has 5 cannelures/grooves and is on average about 1.660" in length
(from lots of 1.650" to 1.670" lengths that I have measured)
which may be loaded to COLs of roughly 3.78", 3.68" or 3.58" using the 5th, 4th, and 3rd cannelures already there.
At 3.58" COL, the seating depth is 0.58", way more than enough.
To load the same bullet in the .458 Lott with 2.8" brass, one must use the first cannelure on the bullet
and trim the 2.8" brass down to 2.760", according to the Barnes manual, in order to make maximum COL loads for the .458 Lott.
With that, the seating depth in the Lott will be 0.820".
What a waste.
That is what happens when you make brass 0.3" longer and try to shoehorn it into a rifle action that allows only 0.2" longer magazine.
There has been a rash of shortening bullet noses that were formerly optimum for the .458 WinMag, so as to make them work more easily in the SAAMI .458 Lott.
Yes a rash broke out with the SAAMI .458 Lott disease ...
This would give more support and protection to the projectiles that are subject to violent recoil when in the magazine
True, but many .458 WM+ loads have more than enough seating depth and are locked in place by 100% load density
and a Lee Factory Crimp Die. They do not pull loose and they do not get battered deeper into the case ...
and would also give more support to very light short bullets that would otherwise have either a very long jump to the lands or have very little of the neck holding them.
... That is why I say that the SAAMI .458 Lott is only better with birdshot for snakes and rat bullets for small pests.
If you want to fix the SAAMI .458 Lott, then give it a throat like on the wildcat version that Jack Lott built.
The long jump with short bullets in the .458 WinMag is somehow not an accuracy impediment, it just works.
The short and tight throat in the SAAMI .458 Lott will not even allow cast bullets of proper diameter for best accuracy,
unless they have bore-rider noses and have the full diameter seated deeply ...

And continuing there, buy a donkey to Sir Meplat for the illustration:



That is exactly what I did with the Woodleigh data for the 400-gr PPSN in the .458 Lott.
I took the maximum load for the .458 Lott and loaded it to the 3.425" COL of the .458 Lott load (when crimped on the Woodleigh factory cannelure)
but in the .458 WinMag at same COL, using an added cannelure (not needed with Lee Factory Crimp Die).
I thus exceeded 2600 fps with the 400-grainer,
with same COL and same degree of powder compression as required in the .458 Lott,
with H4895.
The pressure of this .458 WM+ load fired in a SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum chamber
must be lower than the pressure of same load in a SAAMI .458 Lott with short and tight throat.
Physics does not lie.

good write up sir Ron enjoyed it

Hell of a deal on that buck Sir Ron! nice job Sir, i have the same in mind with the mighty 458 WM+

Great buck RC! Now that is awesome! Congrats!

Sir Allen,
Buy a donkey for the flowers. I enjoyed doing that too. Makes me learn things in the process.

Sir Jerry,
Your 450-grain TSX load at 2418 fps from your .458 WM+ Beauty will no doubt leave a good blood trail
from whatever angle you hit the vitals.
I look forward to your images of dead deer.

I stopped by the local emporium and there was a Happy Hunter getting the disembodied head of his buck B&C scored.
I overheard that it went 150-yards after being shot with a .300 WinMag and there was no blood trail initially,
though the buck was "double lunged" or shot through both lungs with a handloaded 180-gr TSX.
It ran about 50 yards then turned 90 degrees and then started bleeding on ground for another 100 yards.
Happy Hunter kindly texted me a couple of images of his deer on the spot at my request.
There was an exit wound, through rib cage with no shoulder bone or heart hits.
The deer was shot at close range, 60 to 70 yards.
Happy Hunter estimated the weight was about 180 pounds on the hoof.
I "unofficially" measured the rack outside spread and it was a hair over 20 inches (B&C uses inside spread, IIRC).
It had a very symetrical 8-point set of antlers.

The.458 WM+ will more likely make that blood trail start right where the deer was standing when hit.
The blood trail length may be zero yards long, or more, that's as precise as I can predict.

Forgive me for the delayed response .


Left to right : Barnes “ Original “ 300 grain spitzer , 300 grain Sierra JSPFN , 325 Grain Hornady FTX w/ 2 cannelures , 325 grain Hornady FTX w/ 1 cannelure .

The newer crop coming off the production line only has the top cannelure . This bothers me none as I have the wonderful Corbin cannelure tool and will roll a cannelure in any bullet from .17 caliber to .720 …

Also to add : I’ve never used the Hornady 250 grain Mono-Flex as I previously stated . It is the 325 grain FTX … Nonetheless , they are devastating on whitetail . I will also use them w/ the orange ( .458 ) MMP sabot in my Savage ML-2 smokeless muzzleloader along with the Barnes Original 300 grain spitzer .

The second/bottom cannelure on the FTX is within .015” of the typical 300 grain location shown on the Sierra 300 JSPFN . The photo is off angle and shows it lower than it actually is .

The Hornady # 10 handbook only shows data for the 325 FTX for the 450 Marlin and the 45-70 . Additionally , Hornady states to trim the 450 Marlin and 45-70 brass to 2.040” when using these 325 grain FTX bullets . I do not need to trim my 45-70 brass to the specified 2.040 " because my 45-70 is a T/C Contender and has no problems chambering a cartridge with a 405 grain bullet .
"

I use 300 grain reloading data for the 325 grain FTX seated to the second/bottom cannelure for my 458 WM , or I’ll seat to the top cannelure and use 350 grain reloading data for the 325 grain FTX . …. Again , I don’t hot rod my 458 WM loads and like to keep velocities with the 300 – 350 grain bullets to the 2,000 - 2,200 fps range as I don’t need Bursitis and find my load/rifle combination loves it .

I dislike when Hornady does this : eliminate cannelures … They recently did this on their awesome 300 grain XTP .430 diameter XTP , and their .357 180 grain XTP . … Enter the Corbin cannelure tool . I asked Steve Hornady himself at the Indianapolis NRA convention in 2019 and he had no idea they eliminated them .


Winchester M70 circa 1978 22 inch
60 degree F
300 grain Hornady JHP/JSP
66 grains IMR 3031
WLRM
2227 average of 5

Winchester M70 circa 1978 22 inch
60 degree F
325 grain Hornady FTX
45 grain Accurate 5744
WLRM
2025 average of 5

Sir Bulkie,

Buy a donkey for that load data for the .458 Winchester Magnum, much appreciated.
Recalling that the Sierra 300-gr Pro Hunter vaporized inside Bobbarella's muzzle brake at 2800 fps,
it is wise to keep velocity down with some bullets, of course.
CH4D also makes an excellent canneluring tool.

Sir Scotty,
Buy a donkey for the flowers.
That buck must have been a basketball player on the whitetail team.
Basket rack, tall and lean, he dwarfed the little doe he was chasing.

Yeah , those Sierra Pro-Hunters are awfully thin jacketed w/ a pretty soft lead core .

I hammered a fat doe at 50 yards with it out of my 14” Contender @ nearly 2,000 fps and I could almost put my fist in the exit hole .

Yup , the only reason why I didn't get one because it doesn't adjust to .500 (.500 S & W)

Happy Hunter's buck was more of a baseball player buck, catcher or shortstop:

Sir Bulkie,

My CH4D Canntool handled .510-caliber quite easily.
Old Barnes Original 600-gr/.510 were beautified nicely with it.
Maybe I have a new and improved model or mine just doesn't realize it is not supposed to do that ?

Another baseball player buck, 10-point typical:



No further details known yet, but I will get them from the hunter, with whom I am well acquainted.