Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Killing power - where do you see the difference?

Not really certain about how I should phrase the question. I’d like to get an idea where other hunters see the delineation in effectiveness between hunting cartridge & caliber.

As an example I have lots of experience with a .270 Winchester and really can’t see much if any difference in field performance between 257 Roberts, 25-06, 280, 270, 308, 7mm RM, 6.5 Creedmoor etc. However, once I step into a 30-06 or 300 mag of some flavor there seems to me a larger on-game effect. Same goes for my 340 Wby - it just seems like a big step up from a 300 Mag even tho it’s not really. I don’t own any larger bores so my experience is limited.

The things we think about while sitting in a tree stand…

Bull elk with a 375 H&H (260 gr Partition) and another with a 270 Win (140 gr TTSX), both dropped at the shot.

Small bull elk walking, shot at under 50 yards, broadside behind the shoulder with my .375 AI using 270 grain bullet @2900+ fps, the bull showed zero response to the shot.....I couldn’t believe that I had missed. I didn’t.....he collapsed after going about 10 yards! I’ve had others that couldn’t fall fast enough.....you just never know how the animal will react to the shot! memtb

When it comes to critters like deer and elk, it's all in the bullet. Very little has to do with the choice of cartridge.

I have seen a fair number of pigs shot with different rounds. .22 short, long rifle, 5.56, 7.62, .257 Roberts, .30-30, .410, 20 and 12 gauge buck and slugs and 2.75” FFAR HE. Only difference is with the HE rocket there’s not much left for the mess kit.

Assuming deer. Caliber doesn’t matter as much as weight/velocity does. I think a softer bullet that has enough mass that it can be driven reasonably fast and still expand a decent amount while punching through a deer from any reasonable angle with reliable penetration is about the point where one is about as good as another. Small calibers can do it with tough bullets or soft bullets that aren’t necessarily going to punch through so that’s where the trade off is IMO.

I started my son off deer hunting with a .223 and Barnes 55 grain TSX they broke ribs and caused significant internal damage with exit wounds on broadside shots but usually didn’t leave the blood trails other deer cartridges do and were to small to fragments and still penetrate all the way through. So I wouldn’t call it ideal but good enough. I’d go with some where around .243 Win for being about equal to bigger deer guns in most situations. Shooting a deer on the edge of a swamp at dark I’d like a little more but realistically I think .243 Win is about where you get to the point of having a cartridge that can shoot a bullet soft enough to expand violently but still get full penetration from most angles and leave a little margin for error with a non premium bullet.

There are guys with a lot more experience than I but in a nutshell my thinking is that a long heavy for caliber soft bullet with less diameter than a larger diameter bullet has more room to expand to balance out a slight initial diameter difference and to still retain enough shank and weight to drive through bone or difficult angles. When you reach that point it’s pretty much a moot point. That with minimal recoil is the sweet spot.

With a clean shot through the side I'm sure the difference is not as pronounced. Shooting through an imperfect situation such as steep quartering with a flinch, though heavy muscle and bone and it certainly will show up. I don't have the sample size to back this up but based on one elk, similar shot placements through bone and muscle, there certainly was a huge difference between a 30-06 vs (32g + 100fps + .015" diameter) 325 WSM; both bonded core. Night and day difference... drill vs rail spike.

Sometimes not so much the bullet,but where it is placed.

I've killed deer with about 20 different cartridges. The last few years I've had to go low recoil due to a torn rotator cuff and a torn upper bicep tendon in my shooting shoulder. Drill shoulders with a good bullet!

I'm using a Tikka T3X barreled in .277 Wolverine, I'm getting 2,700 fps with a Nosler 90 gr Bonded SP. It's a hard bullet that will penetrate.

Shot placement is critical. I had to pass up on a nice 10-pointer a couple of days ago due to him moving through a thicket not 25 yards from me. A .350 Rem Mag in that situation wouldn't have made it any better.

I think I know what you're getting at but "killing power" is pretty vague and brings up ideas like Taylor's KO drivel.

You have to bump up the size of the cartridge quite a bit to see much of a difference between them if any at all. Bullet placement is the most important issue in killing. Second is bullet construction. Bullet diameter, weight and velocity do matter but are a pretty distant third.

Also most of the "comparisons" average hunters use are pretty worthless being of small sample sizes and using different bullets launched into different animals with varying placements. To really compare cartridges you have to shoot a LOT of similar game with one cartridge using very similar bullets and place the bullet in very similar areas, then switch to a different cartridge and shoot a LOT of similar game with a similar bullet, ect.

If you shoot three big hogs in their brains at 50 yards - one with a .223, one with a 308 and the last with a 300 Win Mag - the results are remarkably similar and don't tell you much. The animals going straight down and there's a bit bigger exit wound on the 300.

If you shoot elk at 200 yards with a 308 and the 300 Win tight behind the shoulder with the same 165 grain bullet you get equally dead elk and a few more exits with the magnum, depending on the bullet.

Now for what Einstein called a thought experiment. Let's say you shot an elk at 300 yards with the 223 (no, I don't recommend this but hear me out). Let's say you use a 62 grain fmj and center punch the elk's brain. What would happen? The elk would go straight down. What's the point? The point is most hunters have placement (marksmanship) problems rather than cartridge selection problems.

Good luck in that tree stand.

You’re not wrong but that’s mostly a given. Where’s the sweet spot between recoil and similar results on a deer and being able to shoot it with most cup and core type bullets at typical hunting ranges? I agree KO formulas are silly but where does recoil and cartridge reach somewhat of an equilibrium? I’d argue around 243 Win. Is a good starting point where most common off the shelf deer bullets will take a deer from most angles with minimal tracking or drama or much difference from one to the next. In other words most .223 caliber center fire cartridges absolutely will get it done but I’d feel limited if talking about an all purpose deer cartridge for any and all common situations. I wouldn’t feel limited with a .243 or a .257 Roberts type cartridge until I got out to very long range we’ll beyond typical hunting distances.

True. But sometimes not so much the cartridge but where it's placed.

The assumption is the bullet reaches the front half of the critter........

At under 50 yards with a fast TSX or TTSX. I took a nice mulie buck at powder burn range and that 150 literally buckled his legs and he fell into his tracks, he did the death quiver and died inside of 30 seconds. I’ve seen it happen to several Sitka Blacktails too. Down in their tracks.

I only hunt with.30cal or larger for what and where I hunt.

You can turn said animals heart into a ragged pulp with a wide variety of cartridges, said animal usually has 8-15 seconds of “whatever it can or wants” to do left in it.

Definitely in the larger fast 338 and 375's. There's a reason the 338 Norma and 338 Lapua are considered anti material rounds with certain projectiles. That isn't the case with the 6.5, 270, 7mm, 308's and that's just a fact.

Doesn't mean that we need to all use 338 Normas but there is a difference. Personally I enjoy my 308win and am going to gain experience with the 270win and again the 30-06. For me at the moment they're enough.

I definitely see a difference between the likes of the .270/.30-06 and a 9.3/.375 on game.

300 win mag.

No discernible difference from a 22 short all the way up to 30 caliber rifles. Learn something new everyday I suppose.


Now to go find me a gunship.........

Gents, interesting subject. I guess it depends largely on what you hunt, and the average distance of the shot. I have found my “Holy Grail” for 90% of the hunting that I do. Most shots are 150 yards or less, either in hardwoods, or on food plots that border very densely vegetated areas. Tracking a deer through the briars is not my idea of fun.

The 4 deer that I have taken so far with my 450 Bushmaster have dropped where they stood, one of them being a pretty decent 12 point buck, about 190lb live weight. Big, fat and slowish is working for me.

Sure, I have hunted for years with everything from the 223AI, up through my 458 WinMag, and my go-to rifles have always been my 7-08AI and my 338 Federal. Until I started using the Bushmaster. For longer range shots, the 7-08AI or my 30-28 Nosler get the nod, but the Bushmaster on an AR platform is perfect for most of my needs.

Speed with bullet expansion/penetration sets up HUGE Permanent wound cavities....this is where I have seen a difference.

220 Swift, 6 Rem AI, 257 Weatherby(custom, little to no freebore), 7 STW with little freebore